Gun control advocates have a victory to look forward to -- UPDATED

[Nuclear Unicorn]

Last edited Tue Sep 9, 2014, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Philly Mom Facing Jail Time for Possessing Licensed Gun

By Queen Muse



A single mother from Philadelphia could be facing up to three years in prison for what she and her attorney say was her effort to be honest with New Jersey authorities.

On Oct. 1, 2013, Shaneen Allen, 27, was pulled over in Atlantic County, New Jersey, for a routine traffic stop. When the officer approached her vehicle, the mother of two informed him that she had a handgun in the car and presented her concealed carry permit for Pennsylvania.


Allen quickly learned that her Pennsylvania gun license held no legal weight in New Jersey when instead of getting a traffic ticket, she was arrested and charged with unlawful possession of a weapon and armor penetrating bullets.

...

If found guilty, Allen could face up to three years in prison with no chance of parole.

Read more: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Philly-Mom-Facing-Jail-Time-For-Licensed-Gun-267507831.html#ixzz38feTNwH0

Not only does she face 3 years in prison without parole but as a convicted felon she loses the right to vote and the right to hold a job the healthcare industry, etc.

She works 2 jobs and fears for her safety because she has been robbed twice.

Good job law-worshippers. Good job. You have so much to be proud of.

*slow, metered clap*


UPDATE -- The prosecutor that is out to destroy Ms. Allen is the same prosecutor that let Ray Rice skate.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. Why was she carrying 'armor penetrating bullets'?

That seems a bit excessive for 'self protection'.

[blueridge3210]

2. I'm not sure what "armor penetrating bullets" are, exactly.

Body armor is only bullet resistant, not bullet proof and most rounds can penetrate give the right circumstances. The news article does not specify what type of ammunition was loaded into the weapon.

[gejohnston]

3. it could be a misprint

or laziness and meant to say hollow points, which are illegal in NJ. Of course, there are those who seriously think hollow points are "armor penetrating". Or,the NJ law might define hollow points as armor penetrating. Given that these laws are almost always written by people who get their information from media hype and don't consult actual experts, it is almost likely.

[Duckhunter935]

4. I am curious on there definition

it seems she had hollow points loaded in her .380. Those are used for self defense and are not armor penetrating, quite the opposite.

.380 Bersa Thunder handgun and the hollow-point bullets in it while driving through the state.

So what is Armour Piercing Ammunition?

Armour piercing bullets are a specific design which incorporates a hard steel or tungsten carbide penetrator inside the bullet's core. Only ammunition with this hard penetrator design is considered to be armour piercing. When the bullet impacts armour, it begins to flatten. As the nose flattens, the hard penetrator continues forward into the armoured surface while being supported by the bullet as it continues to flatten.

Armour Piercing bullets do not explode, fragment or do any of the things you might see in a Hollywood movie. They are a simple kinetic energy penetrator. AP bullets are mainly found in military ammunition.

https://nfa.ca/armour-piercing-ammunition

[Eleanors38]

44. "armor-piercing" in .380? Didn't know there was such.

[Duckhunter935]

52. those new super special

bullets that the controllers made up and put into a law. Never heard of those either until now. Like to see them and know what kind they actually are.

[ileus]

24. Some writer getting in their regressive anti gun digs more than likely.

[NYC_SKP]

48. Yup, same as when they call a 1911 an "automatic"....

They can't resist.

[ManiacJoe]

108. Back in the olden days,

prior to machine pistols and assault rifles, when the term "automatic" was applied to handguns it meant "auto loading" (semi-automatic in rifle terms). Now-a-days, it means the same for handguns and rifles (auto firing) most likely because journalists and the mass public are too lazy to get the terms right. Plus, "semi-auto" is a less confusing term as well as being more accurate.

[ManiacJoe]

63. Not armor penetratring, but hollow points.

Bad reporting....

[Duckhunter935]

5. too bad these laws pushed by some

seemed to have totally ruined the life of a responsible gun owner that was trying to do the correct thing. If we had one standard or 50 state CCW recognition of CCW carriers local laws, this might be alleviated. Of course the anti-gun people do not want that.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

6. Or, if she actually knew the laws that apply to the weapon she owned

and knew that merely getting a Pennsylvania license doesn't allow her to carry out of state, she wouldn't be facing charges.

Doing 'the correct thing' would mean leaving the weapon in Pennsylvania, as a 'responsible gun owner' would have done.

Of course she's only 'facing' charges. Unless New Jersey has mandatory sentencing, I would imagine the judge will take her circumstances into account and either give a far lesser sentence, or allow her to plea bargain down. That's why we have judges, so they can exercise judgement.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

7. 3 years is the mandatory minimum sentence unless the DA opts for "1st time offender" program.

Which so far he has declined to do. He is pushing to nail her to the wall because -- GUNZ!

She owned her gun for all of 1 week. She had no ill intent. Yet, the system which is actively seeking to destroy her and her family is the same system that allowed that allowed her to be robbed twice thus prompting her to purchase a weapon.

Doing 'the correct thing' would mean leaving the weapon in Pennsylvania, as a 'responsible gun owner' would have done.

She was going to work. People have a right to earn their living without becoming victims of criminals -- or a failed law enforcement regime.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

11. Yes, people do have a right to earn their living

without breaking laws. I sympathize with her that she faces mandatory jail time, I don't believe mandatory sentencing is useful anywhere - while it was introduced to try and prevent minorities from getting long sentences and white people short sentences for the same crimes, it doesn't seem to have worked anywhere.

New Jersey, like New York, has a long history of problems with people bringing guns into the state that are then used criminally in that state, so I can understand why they take a dim view towards people bringing in guns from out of state. Still, maybe you could do some good by setting up an email drive here on site to get people to mail the DA and ask him to opt for that 1rst time offender program.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

14. "Yes, people do have a right to earn their living without breaking laws."

Convenient semantics for hiding the fact that the law-worshipping agenda has no effect on crime and only destroys good people. Yes, it's the law. But it's a damn stupid law being enforced with a damned stupid degree of zeal.

Still, maybe you could do some good by setting up an email drive here on site to get people to mail the DA and ask him to opt for that 1rst time offender program.

There are already several. Perhaps you could do some good by contributing to one of them.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

15. Also convenient when you don't know

whether she actually got the gun for protection or was a straw buyer for some criminal in New Jersey.

Which neither of us know. We simply have her own word as to why she had the weapon and took it illegally into New Jersey.

If she was a straw buyer, then that's one less gun that will wind up in criminal hands. Which is why the law exists. To stop guns coming into New Jersey.

You, of course, want to assume that she's a martyr to horrid gun laws. I don't know. She might be, she might not.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

17. wow. Pro-RKBA'ers continually claim anti-2A'ers have no respect for other civil rights as well.

And darned if you didn't just prove that --

Also convenient when you don't know whether she actually got the gun for protection or was a straw buyer for some criminal in New Jersey.

Which neither of us know. We simply have her own word as to why she had the weapon and took it illegally into New Jersey.

If she was a straw buyer, then that's one less gun that will wind up in criminal hands. Which is why the law exists. To stop guns coming into New Jersey.

To hell with presumption of innocence; you just fabricated an entire conspiracy theory about her motives and actions without so much as a shred of evidence, just personal bias. To hell with evidence and probable cause let's just make an example of someone.

You, of course, want to assume that she's a martyr to horrid gun laws.

Which you are proving to be true. You want to assume she's gun trafficking to justify this. No evidence. No corresponding charges. Just throw her in jail to prove a point.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

23. I didn't convict her.

I pointed out why the law actually exists, and that there is a possibility that she might have been one of the people it was created to address.

As a matter of fact, I don't want her to be a trafficker. I'd like to see her get that first time offender program option, and not get stuck with a mandatory sentence. I think the chances are strong she's merely an irresponsible gun owner, not a trafficker. But that's up to the legal system to determine, not any random blogger.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

27. Why not outright dismiss the charges?

Nothing shows her to be a threat to anyone.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

31. That's their prerogative too.

They certainly could do that. Or if she goes to trial, the jury could go for jury nullification.

[mikeysnot]

46. Ignore he/she/them

Last edited Mon Jul 28, 2014, 03:57 PM - Edit history (1)

he/she/them are just here to waste your time arguing in circles...

You made your point when you pointed out she was not "Law abiding" when she crossed state lines. But facts like that always get ignored by the 'guns everywhere" crowd.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

49. I suspect I'll always disagree with

him/her on gun issues, but I save ignore for people who come out of the gates with accusations and insults in their first ever reply to me. So far, that means only two folks, since I've actually found DU to be a fairly reasonable place compared to other blogs.

[mikeysnot]

50. I call them the swarm

they all work together, and attempt to derail any serious discussions of proper gun control, gun sanity...

I meant to ignore his baiting not the ignore button...

[Duckhunter935]

53. so what are your serious proposals?

[blueridge3210]

66. He has none.

I love how one person disagreeing with another poster and citing contrary facts constitutes a "swarm" intent on derailing any conversation about a topic. "Swarm" = 1? Then a "Mob" must equal 2?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

74. "Her" not "him."

[mikeysnot]

90. Actually I was referring to all

so I made my post more gender reference friendly...

[Duckhunter935]

19. is there any evidence of that?

Are the police even alleging that? So you are just making things up now. She went out and got a CCW license, went through the federal, state and local background checks, took the required training, paid her fees so she could be a straw purchaser? What utter bull pucky. She could be a straw purchaser without all of that extra work and expense.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

32. See reply #23. nt

[gejohnston]

35. if she were a straw buyer

Why would she jump through the hoops of getting a PA concealed carry permit to violate a federal law?

[Duckhunter935]

37. yes, very good question

and the answer is............

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

38. see reply #23. nt

[Eleanors38]

98. And announce it to police when she was pulled over?

I highly suspect she told the police she had the gun and permit because that is a common recommended practice that is taught in CCW classes. If this had been in D.C. today, she would have been home free. Hopefully, she will be judged fairly.

[krispos42]

8. You can say the same thing about pot smokers

Don't challenge the worth or usefulness of the law! It should be obeyed, no matter what!

Throw all those teenagers in prison... ruin their lives, put them in the legal system, put them in Crime University for a few years, make their children orphans... after all, they knew the law when they decided to smoke pot!!

[Duckhunter935]

10. oh yes the stink of

hypocrisy.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

12. As a matter of fact, I do obey the laws about illegal drugs.

And I'll say the same thing about them as I did here - I don't believe in mandatory minimums. Judges should have discretion to hand out plea deals and lesser sentences for those as well, until such time as the laws are changed, and marijuana is made legal.

[Duckhunter935]

20. so you think the states are in the wrong

legalizing pot as the federal government says it is against the law. I am sure you are for shutting those down then.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

25. I'm for people who want it legal to change the laws legally.

I'm not for people breaking the law while it's still illegal.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

28. "I'm not for people breaking the law while it's still illegal."

That means supporting the law enforcement measures of the War on Drugs.

Authoritarianism sucks.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

30. Oh well.

If that's how you want to interpret my words, that's your prerogative. It's nor how I would phrase it, but whatever.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

79. Following the law merely because it is "the law" is ALWAYS the basis for tyranny.

Every tyranny that ever existed had the law on its side. Slavery. Segregation. Pogroms. Anti-gay laws.

These all operate under the "law."

The only proper role for law is to protect the people within society who would peaceably live out their lives. When the law becomes destructive to the very people it is supposed to protect our duty is not to the law but to our neighbors.

This law is destroying an innocent woman and her family. The law is illegitimate and defense of it is unconscionable.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

80. I tend to see following the law

until after you've worked to change the law to make something legal a matter of intelligence. It's a lot easier to get laws changed when you don't have a criminal record, or aren't sitting in prison. I don't see any useful point in making it actually harder on yourself to try and change a law by first getting yourself arrested.

That's why I applaud Edward Snowden for NOT coming back to the US to rot in a prison cell after he broke various laws. Getting yourself tossed in jail only 'works' if you've got a large number of people willing to rally behind you as a 'martyr', which very few of us do. That's why I think it's smarter simply to avoid breaking laws, and instead to work to change them.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. Sorry, just reread your post, and I misinterpreted it the first time.

The states are free to legalize whatever they want, but if the feds say something is still illegal, then people who indulge are still facing the possibility of being arrested by federal agents. And that's their problem, until such time as they also get the feds to change the national law.

I think at the federal level, marijuana is certainly improperly listed as a schedule 1 drug, as it has been shown to have low to no addictive properties and does have medicinal qualities. As such, I will push my professional organizations to state that they do believe in legal medical marijuana. I'm not out there pushing for legalization for recreational use, but I'm not opposing it either. I will wait and see what other people decide they want to do. But again, I do not believe in breaking laws simply because I desire to do something that is illegal.

[upaloopa]

102. Or we could have one 50 state gun ban that would work

You sound like a whining kid.
What do you want federal gun laws or States rights?

[beevul]

104. No. You can't. N/T

[Duckhunter935]

106. nope

thanks for calling me a "whining kid", name calling always helps make your case. Not very polite though. I wear it as a badge of honor.

Have a great day

[upaloopa]

109. The gun debates are always reruns

[Duckhunter935]

110. apology accepted

thanks, have a great one.

[Loudly]

9. Has she been robbed twice at gunpoint?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Is the poison the remedy?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

13. Whether or not the criminals were armed and if so, with what, is immaterial.

You cannot reasonably suggest she resort to fisticuffs and melee as the sole means to defend herself when confronted by criminals. Nor does she have an obligation to "take one for the team" just to accommodate the irrational fears of others.


Edited

[Loudly]

18. However, if it WAS at gunpoint, perhaps guns are crime ENABLING?

Which is not just material, it is an essential point in debunking the claim of necessity.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

21. There are laws against robbing people. Why would those criminals suddenly obey gun laws?

perhaps guns are crime ENABLING?

Or not.

Prohibitions do not work. Never have.

[Loudly]

26. Obedience to law is one thing.

Availability is another.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. Yes. Death by other means is so much less dead.

You also fail to isolate for other factors. If prohibitions work then we can cure DUIs, sexual assaults and domestic violence.

[Loudly]

36. Here. All for you.

http://www.suntimes.com/28875297-761/three-in-custody-for-3-year-old-boys-shooting.html#.U9UGW2Os070

http://www.suntimes.com/28881131-761/charges-pending-in-cta-robbery.html#.U9UGxmOs070

http://www.suntimes.com/28869790-761/teen-boy-killed-6-wounded-in-east-garfield-park-shooting.html

http://www.suntimes.com/28880229-761/hundreds-gather-to-pay-respects-to-slain-11-year-old-shamiya-adams.html

http://www.suntimes.com/28890566-761/one-shot-one-hit-by-car-on-eisenhower.html#.U9UIPGOs070

[Nuclear Unicorn]

40. So, in other words you are celebrating the victory of destroying the mother in the OP.

[Loudly]

42. Oh hell no. Take her gun and put it to the cutting torch.

But otherwise leave her be!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

45. So you're supporting the criminals who keep robbing her.

[Loudly]

57. Oh hell no. They should be arrested and prosecuted.

And while incarcerated, they should have access to a length of rope and a sturdy overhanging pipe or beam.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

58. "take her gun..."

5th Amendment much? (...nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.)

[Loudly]

59. Are criminals typically compensated when their contraband is seized?

Not to the best of my knowledge or belief.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

71. define "contraband" n/t

[Loudly]

73. The thing that gets you busted for having it?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

75. Like melanin.

All the authoritarians sure looked the other way when it was a rich white guy waving the contraband.

[Loudly]

85. Yeah, I would totally set her free if I could.

Her gun is the problem, not the lady.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

86. The gun is powerless, inert and inanimate when it is independent of its possessor.

I would totally set her free if I could.

Would you sign the petition to have the charges dropped?

[Loudly]

87. Which numbered post gives the link?

[Duckhunter935]

22. and mabey she was not

and she wanted an equalizer for her against a stronger individual. Glad you are so anti-choice.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

34. They are pro-choice only after the rapist has had his fill.

[Politicalboi]

82. Yes, she has the right to

Shoot her gun if she can and hope she kills the right person. Too bad for the wrong person. I guess they should have had a gun too. Yah! GUNZ!!!!!!!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

83. Criminals never victimize the wrong person. Yah! KRIM'NALZ!

[ileus]

16. probably more like FMJ's than armor penetrating...or was it a 5.7???

This is the kind of crap you get when you let hyper fearful folks that know nothing make laws against safety.

[ManiacJoe]

64. Hollow points.

Bad reporting.

[deathrind]

39. Every state has different laws...

For all types of subjects from alcohol to guns to driving to spitting out chewing gum. Being ignorant of them is not a valid excuse for breaking them. Hopefully the DA and her lawyer will be able to work out a deal that does not involve jail time.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

41. Self-defense is a fundamental right. States do not get to choose how to regulate and enforce

the rest of the Bill of Rights.

[deathrind]

47. Yes, States do have the right to regulate.

NJ has not taken away anyone's "right" to self defense. One can own a firearm in NJ provided you follow the laws NJ has for firearm ownership.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

76. "Yes, States do have the right to regulate."

Please provide examples of other facets of the Bill of Rights being separately regulated from state to state.

[deathrind]

81. The...

1st, 2nd, 8th, 16th, 24th Amendments.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

84. How do states independently regulate the 1A?

[Eleanors38]

43. As with general prohibitionism and the W.O.D., the law

becomes a blunt force instrument to ruin people instead a means to truly protect and serve society. Perhaps the only positive thing this NJ injustice can serve is to be a catalyst for federally-passed reciprocity laws.

[randys1]

51. Simple way to resolve this problem, machine guns and bazookas are legal in all states for all ages

and even Black people and Women can own them, not just men who are insecure about the length of their penis.

[Duckhunter935]

54. nice you got the penis reference in

I think someone around here has a fascination with that and it is not the RKBA crowd. I am actually surprised it took so long for this to show up. Just shows how childish these discussions become when talking about firearms and rights.

"machine guns and bazookas are legal in all states for all ages"

and who has actually proposed this other than you?

[randys1]

55. You guys are predictable, as soon as the correct penis observation comes in, you react

very defensively and as I said, very predictably. If you understood why you reacted so quickly and defensively, you would be halfway to some realization of what we are talking about.

I really wish we could have a viable 3rd party where actual liberals like myself could go.

You see I dont believe a real liberal, someone who has witnessed what has gone on the past 50 yrs and 10 yrs especially, with guns and a few other things like racism and misogyny, would have one bit of need for any guns at all, ever again.

This person would acknowledge that only people with power can be racists, i.e. Black Americans and Latino's cant be racist, and would understand how deeply misogyny effects Women even today.

In what I think would be a REAL PROGRESSIVE, LIBERAL PARTY, guns would never be defended by anyone for any reason...

The ONLY caveat to that might be why real liberal African Americans and Latinos and Native Americans might not want to give up their guns until the police give up theirs....

[DonP]

61. Please take your longing for a 3rd party to GD or ATA

I'm sure Skinner will find it enlightening and inspiring.

[randys1]

62. sigh

[Duckhunter935]

67. "as soon as the correct penis observation comes in"

what is correct about it? Making the childish reference to the male penis because you have no other real argument for your point like the people on the RKBA side? I gets kind of silly when all some people have is to mock and make jokes in absence of a positive point of discussion. If you really want a third party and do not want to be part of DU, I am sure there is a way you can quit and ask Skinner to delete your account.

you know what and this is a fact, democrats own firearms whether you like it or not, actually quite a few. The party platform also states that individuals should be able to own firearms.

"why real liberal African Americans and Latinos and Native Americans

"

do you get to make the sure only "real" ones are selected to own firearms? What is a "real" one anyway?

[Eleanors38]

99. What she said!

[sarisataka]

68. So many questions but

I'll keep it to two

- Do you believe this woman should face a felony conviction, with the life-long issues that will bring?

- in your REAL PROGRESSIVE, LIBERAL PARTY will all sexually derogatory insults be acceptable ?

[randys1]

88. I have no idea how these questions came from my comment

I am against guns AND I think the Woman should face zero punishment for this, where did I make any comment that was derogatory to anyone other than guns?

did you respond to the correct post?


My being against guns in general has nothing to do with the injustice this Woman is facing...

This is a case where someone who just happens to be Black and Female, is getting phucked over by the system, the gun is just the mechanism for how they can phuck her over.

I can see how my zeal to attack guns might have not made myself clear.

I usually put in a caveat that if I were a minority, I would NOT want my guns taken away until the cops had theirs taken away or at least minimized...

[Jenoch]

89. If you are so opposed to guns, how can you possibly wish this woman to NOT face any consequences?

[randys1]

92. For being honest with authorities? while others point guns at federal agents and with

zero consequences?

get serious

[Jenoch]

93. So you can pick and choose which laws to enforce

based on the perp? What about the 14th Amendment? I know you would like to void the 2nd Amendment, but now the 14th too?

[randys1]

94. God help me, what am I doing trying to reason with gun folks

my bad, i am in the wrong forum




and one more banned post and I am banned so I will just bid you gun folks adieu

[Jenoch]

95. If you were using 'reason', I would not have responded to your posts.

[randys1]

96. insults, exactly what i would expect

[Jenoch]

97. Insults? I was merely inquiring about which

parts of the U.S. Constitution you were choosing to ignore.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

91. "My being against guns in general has nothing to do with the injustice this Woman is facing..."

Gun control of the sort you endorse does nothing but inflict and perpetuate this exact sort of injustice. Heller and McDonald were ordinary people just like this woman. It took an act of the USSC to not have them go to prison s this woman is facing prison.

THIS IS WHAT GUN CONTROL LOOKS LIKE.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

77. Be sure to forward all you penis references to the following organization --

http://www.pinkpistols.org/

Or you could just set aside the cheap and vulgar caricatures to actually say something useful.

[Historic NY]

56. What would make her think her state issued permit was legal in NJ..

as a gun owner she should have done her homework.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

[appal_jack]

60. Riiight, just like state-issue driver's licenses.

Riiight, just like state-issue driver's licenses. Just like me having an NC driver's license in-state is fine, but if I want to drive an hour to TN or VA, I have to take a whole other set of tests for licenses in those states...

Oh, wait, it's actually not like that at all... Could it be that the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense is being treated as a second-class revocable privilege by the state of NJ?

They are authoritarian bastards, from the NJ DA refusing to sensibly use discretion to those here at DU here in this thread contorting theories to justify this oppression.

-app

[ManiacJoe]

65. Most gun owners do know that NJ exists in its own odd world.

[Historic NY]

69. Well its not good in NY eitiher......

with all the horseshit thats shoveled out there about concealed carry permits but various gun groups...it is mentioned exactly where you can or cannot carry...responsible gun owner should know that. Meanwhile people are making a fortune off ingnorant people about permits...like and Idaho permit is going to be good in NY. I had a Pa permit for 25 yrs, up until it was decided by the leglislature in PA I have to go several hundred miles back to the Sheriff that issued it, to have it all redone.

Jersey used to lock up NY cops passing through years ago.

[pablo_marmol]

70. Too sad for words.

Let's hope for a good outcome for this woman, while we scratch our heads wondering where the heroic liberal defenders of crime victims are here.

[Packerowner740]

72. I don't like mandatory sentences but

She should have known the laws, even if just passing thru.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

78. Stupid laws should be repealeded. And if they aren't repealed they should be ignored.

She is a threat to no one. If the law cannot accommodate for that fact the law -- not Shaneen -- is the criminal.

[Matrosov]

100. It is her responsibility and hence her fault

Ignorance of the law does not excuse anyone.

Her legal counsel stated "his client did not know it was illegal to have her .380 Bersa Thunder handgun and the hollow-point bullets in it while driving through the state." As a gun owner, it is her responsibility to be familiar with the gun laws of her state as well of any state through which she might travel.

Pointing out the fact that she is a mother and was robbed before is nothing more than an appeal to emotion. How would it be worse if a single man who'd never been a victim of a crime had been caught in illegal possession of a firearm?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

101. What about the nature of her offense merits destroying her life and her family?

[beevul]

105. "As a gun owner, it is her responsibility to be familiar with the gun laws of her state..."

"As a gun owner, it is her responsibility to be familiar with the gun laws of her state as well of any state through which she might travel."

Yeah, and as a State, it is the responsibility of NJ to have reasonable laws.

Bans on hollow point ammunition are neither reasonable nor common sense.

Not respecting CCW permits from another state make as much sense as not respecting a drivers license from another state, and is not reasonable or common sense.

[Matrosov]

111. NJ is a "may issue" state

The lack of reciprocity actually does make sense, considering New Jersey is a "may issue" state where applicants have to demonstrate an urgent need for a permit, and the state issues so few permits that it might as well be considered a "no issue." A permit holder from another state driving through New Jersey does not have the required permission from a New Jersey chief of police and is therefore in illegal possession of a weapon.

[beevul]

112. Then NJ is wrong.

"May issue" is by definition, arbitrary.

Sooner or later, NJ too, will get its ass spanked in court, just like Ill, DC, and the rest.

The only question is how many good people they will arbitrarily attempt to destroy out of caprice before that time comes, and how many people will cheer their destruction.

[mwrguy]

103. Gun toters keep saying "enforce the existing laws"

Then they cry when it happens.

If you were really law-abiding then you wouldn't have to worry about it.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

107. She is not the person with the criminal history being referred to in those statements

and you know it.

This story encapsulates every reason why gun grabbers need to be opposed. You destroy the lives of good people -- while ignoring actual criminals intent on doing harm. And for no reason except petty vindictiveness.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

113. Justice

...or the lack thereof:

Ray Rice is a famous football player. Rice was not prosecuted after he knocked his fiancée unconscious in an Atlantic City casino earlier this year.

Instead, Rice received a two game suspension from the NFL. Contrast his treatment with how the legal system treated Shaneen Allen.

Allen was accused of making an illegal lane change as she drove through New Jersey. She faces up to ten years in state prison because she carried a firearm she legally owned in Pennsylvania.

...

After their arrest, both Rice and Allen qualified for a diversion program for first time offenders. Rice would take classes on domestic violence and have a clean record if he stayed out of trouble. Maybe Allen would take classes on New Jersey’s crazy concealed carry laws. Though both were accepted into the program, the prosecuting attorney accepted Rice’s diversion but rejected Allen’s diversion. The prosecutor allowed a violent multi-millionaire to clear his record but prosecuted a single mom working two jobs. They kept Shaneen Allen in jail for 46 days until she could make bail. Because they kept her in jail, she nearly lost her jobs, her home and her children.

...

It gets crazier. There is an ongoing amnesty in New Jersey for people to turn in their handguns without question. That means Shaneen Allen should have been able to surrender her handgun and avoid prosecution entirely. That treatment only applies if the prosecutor in Atlantic County cared to follow the law and seek a shred of justice. He doesn’t. The prosecutor only cares to make a name for himself. Putting a rich football star in jail would make the prosecutor look like an idiot on the sports pages. It is also bad business to prosecute millionaires who visit the New Jersey Casinos.. even if they beat people unconscious. Money talks in the New Jersey casinos.. and money talks in the New Jersey courtroom.

I understand the arrest in the Rice case because we have an actual victim. We know Rice physically assaulted someone, someone who had not attacked him first and someone who was both physically smaller and weaker than he was. There is no victim in the Shaneen Allen case.. except Shaneen. The prosecutor is nothing more than a grandstanding politician trying to pad his conviction numbers as he prosecutes Shaneen Allen. We used to expect this sort of corrupt behavior from abusive southern sheriffs back in the 1960s.

http://www.ammoland.com/2014/07/third-world-justice-in-new-jersey-ray-rice-versus-shaneen-allen/#axzz399LC0epE
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11257692/ray-rice-baltimore-ravens-suspended-2-games

[Nuclear Unicorn]

114. So a woman can be assaulted with impunity but a woman who wants to protect herself from an assault

is mercilessly prosecuted.

THIS is the War on Women and it will have an actual body count. I doubt the DA is even cognizant of how his actions are effecting women, being too busy seeking glory in the media and all, but this has real-life after effects. Women are being assaulted and he doesn't care. Apathy can kill just as easily as an active killer.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

115. Apathy

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
"In countries where innocent people are dying, the leaders are following their blood rather than their brains." Nelson Mandela
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato

There's not much to say to those who will dismiss the story based on the source or find another excuse to remain blind to victims like Palmer and Allen.

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis." Dante Alighieri

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

116. From thinkprogress

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/07/28/3464970/philadelphia-moms-gun-arrest/

...

Without knowing the prosecutor’s reasoning or all of the facts of this ongoing case, it is difficult to evaluate whether it was really an “honest mistake” or not. But while in the past, such a determination would have been left up to a judge, thanks to the Graves Act, it is now effectively up to the sole discretion of the prosecutor. Two of the critics of this case — Radley Balko of the Washington Post and John Lott Jr. of the Crime Research Prevention Center — agree that one of the biggest problems underlying the Shaneen case: mandatory minimum laws in general. Lott told Fox News that “These mandatory sentences sometimes create really unfortunate results,” especially for minority women like Shaneen. And Blaco cited a 2011 U.S. Sentencing Commission report that found that mandatory minimum sentencing for gun crimes has lead to a significant racial disparity in charges, convictions, and “enhancement” penalties.

And it is not just gun laws that produce these often unfair — and racially disparate — results. Mandatory minimums for even non-violence drug offenders have put thousands of people in jail for life without parole. Indeed Gov. Christie said in April that drug sentencing laws needed reform, arguing that “If, in fact, that we believe life is precious — and I do — then the life of the drug-addicted teenager, who has been arrested for the sixth time, is just as precious as the lives of any one of my children. The life of the 45-year-old lawyer, who is addicted to prescription drugs and alcohol is just as precious as any one of the prosecutors who ever worked for me.”

...

I'd suggest a mandatory review of any laws that limit the discretion of the judge in prosecution and the jury in sentencing non-violent cases.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

117. I call shenanigans (not on you but the excuse offered)

DC has some of the toughest laws yet David Gregory walks free after committing a felony on national TV. Those who impose the laws imagine themselves exempt. They want to control us but imagine themselves too noble of purpose to be burden by the same standards. It's nothing more than aristocratic elitism.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

118. Elitism: the opaque wrapper for truth...

...the finger unbalancing the scale of justice.
Where's a whistle blower for this BS?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

119. Who needs a whistleblower? They're doing it right before our eyes.

Just look at the grabbers in this thread that tell us, "She should have known the law" just so they can have the satisfaction of destroying an evil gun owner. You don't see them clamoring for Gregory's arrest. The double standard is blatant and they're enabling the elitism because they are delusional in thinking their necks will be spared from the boot.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

120. exactly

The whistleblower comment was basically a sarcastic one; it's all absolutely right before our eyes.
I just wanted to point out the folks that are more interested in NOT SEEING than in the common sense they say they espouse.