Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumOpen Carry Bill, HR 822, More Of The Same Insane Gun Legislation (AZ)
http://tucsoncitizen.com/in-the-aggregate/2012/02/08/open-carry-bill-hr-822-more-of-the-same-insane-gun-legislation/The National Rifle Assn. (NRA) must be stopped and whoever accomplishes this feat will be a hero, at least in my book. They have ramrodded a new law through the House, HR 822, that would allow anyone in a state with loose concealed carry laws (like Arizona) to carry their handgun in any other state in the country, no matter what the laws of that state are. This is the first piece of legislation this inept Congress has come up with since the Giffords shooting.
That means other wackos like Jared Loughner from the Tucson massacre and Seung-Hui Cho from the similar disaster at Virginia Techand they are walking around out there with guns in their pocketscould take their firearms to a state with stricter laws and hold their own massacre. Pure idiocy. The Second Amendment is a fundamental right to bear arms that should not be constrained by state boundary lines," said GOP Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee in the Huff Post.
Bullshit. I am not even convinced that the 2nd Amendment literally includes the right to carry a concealed weapon and I think with the recent momentum of gun control advocates, this very point may be up for consideration. It is sheer insanity to pass a law that makes one state lawespecially one passed by deranged legislators like those in Arizonaa national law. The latter are now trying to push guns on college campuses; you can already take them into bars.
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ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)written by a rabid anti gunner.
jpak
(41,758 posts)yup
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)yup yup
jpak
(41,758 posts)now that is *insane*
yup
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)The system failed in that his mental issues were not reported. Honest people would address the problem and not blame inanimate hardware.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...that one Wal-Mart clerk could tell he was too nuts to possess.
beevul
(12,194 posts)And yet not a word about loughners LEO contacts...
One wal-mart clerk could tell he was nuts, according to you, yet...the various LEO he had contacts with, didn't.
Any comment about them, or their role in this?
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...which just goes to show why we need psychological evaluations like some other Western Countries.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)While it's nice of you to believe in the perfectabilty of human nature, it does you little credit to evince a belief that somehow the One True Gun Law
will bring about that change. If a system is run by humans, some human will game it, sooner or later...
tortoise1956
(671 posts)For the love of Murphy, at least develop an argument based on something other than a brain cloud kinda thing...
Y U nO MakeSEnse?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)did the lack of carry permit stop them from shooting a bunch of people? No?
jpak
(41,758 posts)Oh Yeah - Lamar Smith (R- Douchebag TX) is an asshole.
nice touch
yup
rl6214
(8,142 posts)TheWraith
(24,331 posts)You mean like the "one gun a month" law Virginia had, which didn't stop Cho from purchasing his? Or background checks on every sale, which both of those guys passed? Or 10 round magazine limits, when Cho was using 10 round magazines to kill thirty plus people at VT? Or registration of all guns, which didn't stop the guy who killed ten people in Binghamton a couple years ago?
Or are you, as usual, defining "sane" gun laws as the ones you support, regardless of whether they actually do anything other than restrict law-abiding people and get Democrats thrown out of office?
Loudly
(2,436 posts)It's a bad bad direction for society to go.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...it's like I say, you guys don't have any clever cartoons because all the pro-gun cartoons are drawn by conservatives who just aren't that talented. Waiting for the picture with some self-written text splattered on it and the claim that the NRA is getting royalties
beevul
(12,194 posts)This one would be too, if it weren't so close to the truth.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)because it was guaranteed that someone else would be taking the bullets for them.
Fuck. The. ATF.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Can't walk out the house without a gun or two stuffed down your pants...
pose in front of the mirror practicing your quick draw...
nra/gop douchbags...
cowboys looking to kill someone...
That's bs shtick, almost as bad as the brady bunch talking points.
I'll say one thing for you ellisonz, at least you think about your posts and respond to the points that are being made instead of reguritating the same old thing in every posted, nice to see you put some time into your responses.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)There's a schtick on your side based on NRA talking points.
I put time into my responses, but I don't pretend this is some debating society like others here do, this is DU and I'll throw some mud if I want to. I never knew some people could be so sensitive.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)I don't think I have ever tossed out NRA talking points myself, especially since I don't belong to the NRA, don't read any of their publications or what not.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...to get sucked into the quicksand of NRA think. Just like you don't have to belong to the Klan to be a bigot
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)For example, if someone discusses criminals and their behavior and someone else automatically assumes that they're talking about people of color-
why then, that second party is a bigot. Or if someone assumes that they know what someone elses' political beliefs are based upon their possessions-
they, too are bigots. For example, let's consider a rich guy whose first car was a Ferrari, and who owns a large apartment on the Upper West Side of Manhattan
and a rather nice mansion in Palm Beach. You might automatically think "exploiting 1%er asshole"- or you might realize the truth, which is said rich guy was John Lennon...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)But I would caution that when one is talking in sociological terms about crime and the use of language that race is an appropriate topic for consideration where there is evidence it is being brought into play. I would also note that firearms out of all possessions is singled out for regulation in the Bill of Rights and that is a very political issue. The bottom line is that making assumptions with no evidence whatsoever about a particular person is a flawed approach, on that we agree.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)That way the rest of us can read them correctly too.
Straw Man
(6,625 posts)So you admit that you're nothing more than a propagandist who has no interest in a discussion of the issues. You are here to "throw some mud," yet you complain if you're not treated with civility and respect. Now that's funny ...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...but I really wasn't trying to in the first place. I'm a propagandist, you're a propagandist, we're all propagandists! Can you define propagandist in this context? I've only decried the nastiness in relation to a brokered deal, but I'm not going to unilaterally disarm. Tough shit, Straw Man.
Straw Man
(6,625 posts)I have other avenues of gratification available to me.
Yes -- someone who is more interested in promoting an agenda than in debating a point; someone who will abandon discourse when he seems to be losing the field, and will instead launch a flotilla of emotion-driven graphics and videos, hyperbolic bloviation, and vilification of those who hold the opposing viewpoint; someone who will take has own prejudices as gospel and will stop at nothing to promote his own agenda.
Stop acting as if you hold the moral high ground here. You don't.
Clames
(2,038 posts)...talking points over Brady Campaign and VPC talking points any day of the week. I might feel the need for a shower after the NRA but I'd have to be dipped in hot bleach if I uttered the crap that the VPC spews.
SteveW
(754 posts)rl6214
(8,142 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)HR 822 has nothing to do with open carry, nor does it force concealed carry on all states, nor does it force AZ laws on any other state. It simply states that if a person has a concealed carry permit from one state then other states that have concealed carry must honor that permit, however the person must obey the carry laws of the state he is in. IOW - An AZ citizen with a permit may carry concealed in NY but he must obey NY laws when in NY, except he would not be required to obtain a pistol permit. He currently would not be able to carry in IL as concealed carry is still outlawed there. A citizen of NY could get an out-of-state permit and NY would then be required to honor it.
HR 822 may be viewed here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c112:4:./temp/~c112Tz50cy::
The bill has passed the House, where it had 245 cosponsors. The vote was 272-154. It is now in the Senate Judiciary Committee, is likely to pass and is favored to pass the Senate. The real question is if Obama will sign it. The bill may become attached as a rider to a bill that Obama really wants so that he will sign it anyway, as he did the Guns-in-National-Parks bill.
Dr_Scholl
(212 posts)I've been wondering what happened to HR 822. It passed the House and then just seemed to disappear.
ileus
(15,396 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Neither option flatters you.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)"That means other wackos like Jared Loughner from the Tucson massacre and Seung-Hui Cho from the similar disaster at Virginia Techand they are walking around out there with guns in their pocketscould take their firearms to a state with stricter laws and hold their own massacre."
Neither person had a concealed carry permit. Lacking a permit, this bill wouldn't apply to them at all.
SteveW
(754 posts)"...with the recent momentum of gun control advocates,..."
Clames
(2,038 posts)...must mean anytime between 15 and 20 years ago...