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jpak

(41,758 posts)
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:02 AM Feb 2012

Open Carry Bill, HR 822, More Of The Same Insane Gun Legislation (AZ)

http://tucsoncitizen.com/in-the-aggregate/2012/02/08/open-carry-bill-hr-822-more-of-the-same-insane-gun-legislation/

The National Rifle Assn. (NRA) must be stopped and whoever accomplishes this feat will be a hero, at least in my book. They have ramrodded a new law through the House, HR 822, that would allow anyone in a state with loose concealed carry laws (like Arizona) to carry their handgun in any other state in the country, no matter what the laws of that state are. This is the first piece of legislation this inept Congress has come up with since the Giffords shooting.

That means other wackos like Jared Loughner from the Tucson massacre and Seung-Hui Cho from the similar disaster at Virginia Tech—and they are walking around out there with guns in their pockets—could take their firearms to a state with stricter laws and hold their own massacre. Pure idiocy. “The Second Amendment is a fundamental right to bear arms that should not be constrained by state boundary lines," said GOP Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee in the Huff Post.

Bullshit. I am not even convinced that the 2nd Amendment literally includes the right to carry a concealed weapon and I think with the recent momentum of gun control advocates, this very point may be up for consideration. It is sheer insanity to pass a law that makes one state law—especially one passed by deranged legislators like those in Arizona—a national law. The latter are now trying to push guns on college campuses; you can already take them into bars.

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Open Carry Bill, HR 822, More Of The Same Insane Gun Legislation (AZ) (Original Post) jpak Feb 2012 OP
It is only fair to note that this is not from a newspaper but a reposting of a Daily Kos based blog ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2012 #1
Yeah - like there are no repostings of RW crapaholla from rabid gunners here jpak Feb 2012 #2
http://tucsoncitizen.com looks like a newspaper, and Nasty Jack makes Neil Knox look sane ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2012 #3
People defend Jared Loughner's right to buy Glocks and 30-round magazines jpak Feb 2012 #5
Loughner is/was crackers ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2012 #11
Inanimate hardware... ellisonz Feb 2012 #13
And yet not a word about loughners LEO contacts... beevul Feb 2012 #19
The whole system failed... ellisonz Feb 2012 #31
Which I'm sure would be just as fair and impartial as NYC's licensing procedures. friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #33
Since when is it a clerk's job to determine mental health? tortoise1956 Feb 2012 #41
SrSlY Callisto32 Feb 2012 #20
one question gejohnston Feb 2012 #4
The lack of *sane* guns laws allowed them to get their guns jpak Feb 2012 #6
Blah, blah, blah, juvenile shtick, blah, blah, blah rl6214 Feb 2012 #9
"Sane" gun laws? Which ones? TheWraith Feb 2012 #12
Technically correct, but OK by me to rant against gun worship. Loudly Feb 2012 #7
Gun worship? You sound as bad as 6pak rl6214 Feb 2012 #10
"rl6214 9. Blah, blah, blah, juvenile shtick, blah, blah, blah" ellisonz Feb 2012 #14
LOL beevul Feb 2012 #15
Your cartoon isn't funny... ellisonz Feb 2012 #16
Youre right, Its hilarious. beevul Feb 2012 #17
Except for the fact the the entire BATFE was perfectly safe throughout it all.... PavePusher Feb 2012 #42
Now that's a funny Cartoon... ileus Feb 2012 #18
Shtick? rl6214 Feb 2012 #26
What do you expect? ellisonz Feb 2012 #27
Nra talking points on my side, yes there is, on my side BUT rl6214 Feb 2012 #30
You don't have to be a member... ellisonz Feb 2012 #32
You don't have to be right-wing to be a bigot, either. friendly_iconoclast Feb 2012 #34
No you don't. ellisonz Feb 2012 #35
You need to publish the code-book you're deciphering messages with. PavePusher Feb 2012 #43
Not too much. Straw Man Feb 2012 #36
Well I'm sorry I don't meet your expectations... ellisonz Feb 2012 #37
That's OK. Straw Man Feb 2012 #40
I'd take NRA and SAF... Clames Feb 2012 #38
Well, do you have any arguments beyond rants? Thanks. nt SteveW Feb 2012 #28
yeah, those pesky old state gun laws are really going to stop someone like loughner rl6214 Feb 2012 #8
Your post has false information. Here is the truth. GreenStormCloud Feb 2012 #21
Thanks. Dr_Scholl Feb 2012 #24
Shouldn't need law allowing you to exercise a right. ileus Feb 2012 #22
You are either terribly confused on what this law would allow, or you are not being truthful. PavePusher Feb 2012 #23
Why would you post lies? AtheistCrusader Feb 2012 #25
Could you please provide examples of this phenomenon? Thanks... SteveW Feb 2012 #29
His idea of recent.. Clames Feb 2012 #39

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
1. It is only fair to note that this is not from a newspaper but a reposting of a Daily Kos based blog
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:19 AM
Feb 2012

written by a rabid anti gunner.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
11. Loughner is/was crackers
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:59 AM
Feb 2012

The system failed in that his mental issues were not reported. Honest people would address the problem and not blame inanimate hardware.

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
19. And yet not a word about loughners LEO contacts...
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 08:01 AM
Feb 2012

And yet not a word about loughners LEO contacts...

One wal-mart clerk could tell he was nuts, according to you, yet...the various LEO he had contacts with, didn't.


Any comment about them, or their role in this?

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
31. The whole system failed...
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:24 PM
Feb 2012

...which just goes to show why we need psychological evaluations like some other Western Countries.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
33. Which I'm sure would be just as fair and impartial as NYC's licensing procedures.
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:33 PM
Feb 2012

While it's nice of you to believe in the perfectabilty of human nature, it does you little credit to evince a belief that somehow the One True Gun Law
will bring about that change. If a system is run by humans, some human will game it, sooner or later...

tortoise1956

(671 posts)
41. Since when is it a clerk's job to determine mental health?
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 02:35 AM
Feb 2012

For the love of Murphy, at least develop an argument based on something other than a brain cloud kinda thing...

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
4. one question
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:27 AM
Feb 2012
That means other wackos like Jared Loughner from the Tucson massacre and Seung-Hui Cho from the similar disaster at Virginia Tech—and they are walking around out there with guns in their pockets—could take their firearms to a state with stricter laws and hold their own massacre. Pure idiocy. “The Second Amendment is a fundamental right to bear arms that should not be constrained by state boundary lines," said GOP Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee in the Huff Post.

did the lack of carry permit stop them from shooting a bunch of people? No?

jpak

(41,758 posts)
6. The lack of *sane* guns laws allowed them to get their guns
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:36 AM
Feb 2012

Oh Yeah - Lamar Smith (R- Douchebag TX) is an asshole.

nice touch

yup

TheWraith

(24,331 posts)
12. "Sane" gun laws? Which ones?
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:19 AM
Feb 2012

You mean like the "one gun a month" law Virginia had, which didn't stop Cho from purchasing his? Or background checks on every sale, which both of those guys passed? Or 10 round magazine limits, when Cho was using 10 round magazines to kill thirty plus people at VT? Or registration of all guns, which didn't stop the guy who killed ten people in Binghamton a couple years ago?

Or are you, as usual, defining "sane" gun laws as the ones you support, regardless of whether they actually do anything other than restrict law-abiding people and get Democrats thrown out of office?

 

Loudly

(2,436 posts)
7. Technically correct, but OK by me to rant against gun worship.
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:38 AM
Feb 2012

It's a bad bad direction for society to go.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
16. Your cartoon isn't funny...
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 06:47 AM
Feb 2012

...it's like I say, you guys don't have any clever cartoons because all the pro-gun cartoons are drawn by conservatives who just aren't that talented. Waiting for the picture with some self-written text splattered on it and the claim that the NRA is getting royalties



 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
42. Except for the fact the the entire BATFE was perfectly safe throughout it all....
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 06:34 PM
Feb 2012

because it was guaranteed that someone else would be taking the bullets for them.

Fuck. The. ATF.

 

rl6214

(8,142 posts)
26. Shtick?
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 12:46 PM
Feb 2012

Can't walk out the house without a gun or two stuffed down your pants...

pose in front of the mirror practicing your quick draw...

nra/gop douchbags...

cowboys looking to kill someone...

That's bs shtick, almost as bad as the brady bunch talking points.

I'll say one thing for you ellisonz, at least you think about your posts and respond to the points that are being made instead of reguritating the same old thing in every posted, nice to see you put some time into your responses.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
27. What do you expect?
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 04:03 PM
Feb 2012

There's a schtick on your side based on NRA talking points.

I put time into my responses, but I don't pretend this is some debating society like others here do, this is DU and I'll throw some mud if I want to. I never knew some people could be so sensitive.

 

rl6214

(8,142 posts)
30. Nra talking points on my side, yes there is, on my side BUT
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 06:15 PM
Feb 2012

I don't think I have ever tossed out NRA talking points myself, especially since I don't belong to the NRA, don't read any of their publications or what not.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
32. You don't have to be a member...
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:26 PM
Feb 2012

...to get sucked into the quicksand of NRA think. Just like you don't have to belong to the Klan to be a bigot

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
34. You don't have to be right-wing to be a bigot, either.
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:45 PM
Feb 2012

For example, if someone discusses criminals and their behavior and someone else automatically assumes that they're talking about people of color-
why then, that second party is a bigot. Or if someone assumes that they know what someone elses' political beliefs are based upon their possessions-
they, too are bigots. For example, let's consider a rich guy whose first car was a Ferrari, and who owns a large apartment on the Upper West Side of Manhattan
and a rather nice mansion in Palm Beach. You might automatically think "exploiting 1%er asshole"- or you might realize the truth, which is said rich guy was John Lennon...


ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
35. No you don't.
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:49 PM
Feb 2012

But I would caution that when one is talking in sociological terms about crime and the use of language that race is an appropriate topic for consideration where there is evidence it is being brought into play. I would also note that firearms out of all possessions is singled out for regulation in the Bill of Rights and that is a very political issue. The bottom line is that making assumptions with no evidence whatsoever about a particular person is a flawed approach, on that we agree.

 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
43. You need to publish the code-book you're deciphering messages with.
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 06:38 PM
Feb 2012

That way the rest of us can read them correctly too.

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
36. Not too much.
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 12:18 AM
Feb 2012
I put time into my responses, but I don't pretend this is some debating society like others here do, this is DU and I'll throw some mud if I want to.

So you admit that you're nothing more than a propagandist who has no interest in a discussion of the issues. You are here to "throw some mud," yet you complain if you're not treated with civility and respect. Now that's funny ...

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
37. Well I'm sorry I don't meet your expectations...
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 12:36 AM
Feb 2012

...but I really wasn't trying to in the first place. I'm a propagandist, you're a propagandist, we're all propagandists! Can you define propagandist in this context? I've only decried the nastiness in relation to a brokered deal, but I'm not going to unilaterally disarm. Tough shit, Straw Man.

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)
40. That's OK.
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 01:49 AM
Feb 2012

I have other avenues of gratification available to me.

Can you define propagandist in this context?

Yes -- someone who is more interested in promoting an agenda than in debating a point; someone who will abandon discourse when he seems to be losing the field, and will instead launch a flotilla of emotion-driven graphics and videos, hyperbolic bloviation, and vilification of those who hold the opposing viewpoint; someone who will take has own prejudices as gospel and will stop at nothing to promote his own agenda.

Stop acting as if you hold the moral high ground here. You don't.
 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
38. I'd take NRA and SAF...
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 01:09 AM
Feb 2012

...talking points over Brady Campaign and VPC talking points any day of the week. I might feel the need for a shower after the NRA but I'd have to be dipped in hot bleach if I uttered the crap that the VPC spews.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
21. Your post has false information. Here is the truth.
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 09:17 AM
Feb 2012

HR 822 has nothing to do with open carry, nor does it force concealed carry on all states, nor does it force AZ laws on any other state. It simply states that if a person has a concealed carry permit from one state then other states that have concealed carry must honor that permit, however the person must obey the carry laws of the state he is in. IOW - An AZ citizen with a permit may carry concealed in NY but he must obey NY laws when in NY, except he would not be required to obtain a pistol permit. He currently would not be able to carry in IL as concealed carry is still outlawed there. A citizen of NY could get an out-of-state permit and NY would then be required to honor it.

HR 822 may be viewed here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c112:4:./temp/~c112Tz50cy::

The bill has passed the House, where it had 245 cosponsors. The vote was 272-154. It is now in the Senate Judiciary Committee, is likely to pass and is favored to pass the Senate. The real question is if Obama will sign it. The bill may become attached as a rider to a bill that Obama really wants so that he will sign it anyway, as he did the Guns-in-National-Parks bill.

 

Dr_Scholl

(212 posts)
24. Thanks.
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 11:33 AM
Feb 2012

I've been wondering what happened to HR 822. It passed the House and then just seemed to disappear.

 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
23. You are either terribly confused on what this law would allow, or you are not being truthful.
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 11:32 AM
Feb 2012

Neither option flatters you.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
25. Why would you post lies?
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 12:38 PM
Feb 2012

"That means other wackos like Jared Loughner from the Tucson massacre and Seung-Hui Cho from the similar disaster at Virginia Tech—and they are walking around out there with guns in their pockets—could take their firearms to a state with stricter laws and hold their own massacre."

Neither person had a concealed carry permit. Lacking a permit, this bill wouldn't apply to them at all.

SteveW

(754 posts)
29. Could you please provide examples of this phenomenon? Thanks...
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 05:52 PM
Feb 2012

"...with the recent momentum of gun control advocates,..."

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