Kid forced to defend his family against other kid.

[ileus]

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=22875956

HOMINY, Oklahoma - An attempted intruder into a Hominy home is dead after he was shot by a 17-year-old early Thursday, Osage County officials have confirmed.
Cole Davis, 16, was shot as he was trying to break into a home on Pettit Avenue in Hominy. Davis lived in Terlton and had been a student at Mannford Public Schools. Family members confirmed his identity to News On 6.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just like Joe recommended this 17yo used a shotgun to save lives within his home. In other news drugs (undetermined at this time) kill in more than one way...


While I'm not a fan of shotguns because of their recoil over say an AR, they do get the job done under the right circumstances.

[rdharma]

1. Save the lives?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

2. ...

[chillfactor]

3. ...

[Jenoch]

5. Do you really believe the

10 year old girl and her mother should have just let the crazed home-invader into their house to find out what his intentions were?

[rdharma]

4. Your socks are showing

...

[friendly_iconoclast]

6. You tell 'em, bongbong! Zombies beat socks any day of the week.

[rdharma]

7. Nah!

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. Wot, zombies *don't* beat sockpuppets?

I'll be sure to shares that tidbit the next time we're all united....

[rdharma]

9. Seems to be an echo in here.

Bump the needle..... the same line is repeating ....... over and over!

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. You're right- I keep hearing "sock" over and over again...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=129380

rdharma (3,299 posts)
4. Your socks are showing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3358992

rdharma (3,299 posts)
55. Sock ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023360017

If you disagree with someone, just claim she/he is a sockpuppet spreading propaganda
End of discussion.

Cool tool!

[rdharma]

11. "attempted intruder"

Does that justify shoot to kill?

Give the SOB a butt stroke! Cowards!

[hack89]

12. A "butt stroke"?

And just how do you first determine the intruder is not armed? Looks like an invitation to get yourself shot. But I doubt the safety of the home owner even crosses your mind.

[rdharma]

14. Was there ever a question of the intruder being "armed"?

Drunken kid gets blasted with a shotgun. Wave some flags, y'all!

[hack89]

15. How do you determine if an intruder is armed without endangering yourself?

do you ever think about what you post?

If I verbally challenge the intruder and his response is to immediately shoot me, do you think that is a good thing?

It is simple - you break into my house in the middle of the night, we are not going to have a long conversation. If I cannot immediately determine that you are unarmed, I will assume that you are in fact armed.

[notadmblnd]

29. how bout hollering out "what the hell are you doing in here?"

Shoot to kill, really? How freaking scared do you have to be to believe that there is someone out there after you to kill you or take your stuff?

The media puts crap out there to make people afraid and they by into it. I'm not saying random evil shit doesn't happen, but it happens much less than people have been programed to believe.

I think unless one' has made some pretty nasty enemies in life, that the probability of being a victim of a violent home invasion while the occupant is there is less likely than hitting the lottery.

One's home is much more likely to be broken into and robbed when no one is home. Which means that the guns one has there to shoot the random evil with will do them no good, but may in fact find it's way into the hands of a random evil doer.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. If someone breaks into my house while I am home

the benefit of the doubt is right out the window. Sorry.

Those are the stakes of invading someone's home. Ponder carefully before you do it.

[Lizzie Poppet]

84. Likewise.

Last edited Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

If the situation warrants, I'll give such a person a warning. That is, if I can see their hands (and those hands are empty of weapons), and if I'm well out of reach, I won't simply open fire. Any other situation in which someone breaks into my occupied house is going to carry the assumption that they intend harm. I am under no ethical compulsion to assume otherwise.

[hack89]

52. What if the answer from him is a bullet?

I know that the chances of a violent home invasion is extremely rare in most neighborhoods - there is a reason I do not keep a self defense weapon handy.

But if I lived in a high crime area where home invasions were more common and I found someone in my house, I am going to assume the worse. I refuse to endanger myself or my family just to give a criminal the benefit of the doubt.

[Jenoch]

74. There was a mother

and her 10 year old daughter in the house as well. Is the answer to wait for the intruder to begin assaulting them before intervening?

[notadmblnd]

81. I would probably grab a phone and call the police instead of just waiting for an assult to begin

but you can grab your gun and start shooting first.

[Jenoch]

83. The cops are not

going to get there in time. This was a 17 year old and his mother told him to shoot.

[notadmblnd]

85. In time for what? The cops had already been called.

For some reason the kid was panicking, he could have been under the influence of something but he thought someone was trying to kill him.

A woman at the home said a male began beating on her front door about 1 a.m. Her 10-year-old daughter went to the door and the person began yelling aggressively, "They're going to kill me. They're going to kill me," over and over, the woman told News On 6.

As the little girl opened the door, Davis put one foot inside and kept screaming, so the woman slammed the door in his face, she said.

He then punched through the window on the door and the woman said she was frightened, so she woke her 17-year-old son and told him to get his gun.

Her son, who is a senior at Hominy High School, grabbed a 12-guage shotgun and fired as Davis reached his hand through the broken glass and turned the doorknob trying to force entry.

A neighbor said Davis was sitting on her porch minutes before. When she told him to leave, he started acting strangely, so she called 911. She said she was already on the phone with dispatch when she heard the gunfire next door.

"He was swinging on my swing, and I looked out the window and yelled at him," neighbor Donna Watkins said.

The boy then pressed his face up against her window, according to Watkins.

"He looked like he was high or something," she said.

And Davis' family in Terlton told News On 6 they have suspected drug use in the past.

Scared because of his behavior, Watkins said she demanded he leave her property and ran to secure her home.
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=22875956

So the kid had broke a window but was not in the house when this woman had her son shoot him. So, I guess you're right. He deserved to die.

[Jenoch]

86. I never said the kid deserved to die.

I was not there, so I cannot make the decision on whether the gun was needed or not. The mother thought so.

Who called the cops? Where did it say anything about that? The story never mentioned the woman or either of her children calling the cops, it doesn't appear they had time, or it was not included in the story.

The cops were not going to get to the scene in time to stop whatever a crazed person was going to do to that family after violently breaking into their home at 1 am.

[notadmblnd]

87. I posted it. The neighbor called the cops

because he had been to her house first. She told him to go away. Read my excerpt again.

A neighbor said Davis was sitting on her porch minutes before. When she told him to leave, he started acting strangely, so she called 911. She said she was already on the phone with dispatch when she heard the gunfire next door.

"He was swinging on my swing, and I looked out the window and yelled at him," neighbor Donna Watkins said.

The boy then pressed his face up against her window, according to Watkins.

"He looked like he was high or something," she said.

And Davis' family in Terlton told News On 6 they have suspected drug use in the past.

Scared because of his behavior, Watkins said she demanded he leave her property and ran to secure her home.
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=22875956

[Jenoch]

88. When did the

mother and her two children learn that information? All of what you are pointing to is 20/20 hindsight.

[notadmblnd]

89. Of course it is hindsight.

I simply pointed out that there is another alternative to shooting first and asking questions later.

That alternative is asking questions first. I didn't say one could not be armed while asking the questions.

The point that I was trying to make (on my first post) is that the media has stoked the fear level of the (apparently) average citizen in this country so high, that they think there is a boogeyman out there around every corner to get them. AND THERE IS NOT!

[Jenoch]

90. So, you don't acknowledge

that the family did not know the cops were called? The neighbor was on the phone with dispatch when the gun was fired.

The mother was in fear for her family's lives. Sure, the whole situation sucks, but that family did not know the intruder was not armed and was not going to harm them. Even now, we do not know that he would not have harmed those people. From the story, it appears the kid was not going to respond to questions about his situation. I do not really look at this as a 'shoot first and ask questions later' situation. There was fear for their lives and they did what they had to do to protect their family.

[notadmblnd]

91. I'm certain it occurred sometime after the event. So what?

I never implied that they knew the police had been called. I simply said that they had been, I didn't say they knew. Why would they even have to know that the cops were called in order to tell the guy to leave, or tell him if he didn't leave, he was going to be shot?


Yep it's that fear thing. The mother was in fear for her family's life and she had a gun handy.

I'm sure the neighbor lady was afraid too but no one got dead at her house. Why do you think that is?

[Jenoch]

94. If the family did not know the cops had been called,

then why did you imply they did not need to shoot the kid because the cops had been called?

The lady next door had less fear because the guy left her porch and did not attempt to get inside her house.

This is a tragedy. It is too bad the guy is dead. The family inside the home did not do anything wrong. The mother protected her family.

We only know what was in a short news story of the event. From what we do know from the story is that the family is alive and uninjured. We do not know what would have happened had the intruder gotten inside the house. Everything after that is 20/20. If it were my family, I would not make the same bet on my family's welfare that you seem to be risking.

[oneshooter]

92. Apparently you missed this part.

"He then punched through the window on the door and the woman said she was frightened, so she woke her 17-year-old son and told him to get his gun.

Her son, who is a senior at Hominy High School, grabbed a 12-guage shotgun and fired as Davis reached his hand through the broken glass and turned the doorknob trying to force entry."

[notadmblnd]

93. Nope, didn't miss it.

[rdharma]

16. "And just how do you first determine the intruder is not armed?"

You give him a butt stroke ......then check him for weapons.

Do I need to explain this to y'all?

[hack89]

18. Sorry - didn't realize you were joking.

carry on.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. No need. They were able to check him just fine after this problem was solved.

Don't start nothin' won't be nothin'.

(Stay out of other people's fucking houses)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. excuse me, but wtf is a butt stroke and are you calling a kid a coward?

[rdharma]

17. If you don't know what a butt stroke is, you shouldn't have a firearm!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. that is what I thought you meant and you are armchair quarterbacking this kid

and calling him a coward. and btw you smashed your face with your hand. careful don't hurt yourself. looks painful in that picture.

[rdharma]

20. Coward.... and a killer to boot!

Killed a drunken kid..... because he and momma were scared!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. What kind of man would call ANY child a coward?

I do not know about others but, in my book, I would call a man like that a despicable, Lowlife of a Loser.

May you one day stare FEAR straight into the eyes and live to tell the story.

No need to reply. I will not respond.

I am out of this thread and trashing it.

Good bye.

[rdharma]

22. I wasn't a "child" when I was 17 years old.

Was I just advanced for my age? I think not!

Buh-bye, Mr. or Mrs. "nah nah nah I can't hear you I've trashed this thread"! I know you'll be checking this thread.

[Lizzie Poppet]

23. So you've regressed then.

This explains much...

[rdharma]

24. Oh! What a witty put down!

Harr, harr, harr!

[AtheistCrusader]

26. Hahahaha oh shit, there's a WHOLE bunch of Trayvon Martin threads paging you to explain

why he wasn't a Child.

[Link Speed]

27. I have lost two friends due to 'buttstroke'.

Both were trying to finish off geese when they were hit in the chest by a chambered shell.

'Buttstrokes' only work in movies and games.

[rdharma]

28. As I figured.... you don't know what a buttstroke is!

By the way, .... welcome!

Isn't it amazing how all these newbies show up for the first time in the gungeon!

As Gomer Pile would say...... "Surprise, surprise!"

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Actually, he does, and you don't, or at least, you don't know what he's trying to say.

In that case, the person is using it on a wounded bird on the ground. When you hold a broom, sweeping the floor, at some point, the end of the broom crosses your chest, right? Same with a shotgun when you use it that way.

Technically no modern shotgun should be capable of firing in that manner, but that's how shit happens, and why you never sweep a human with a hunting rifle (Or shotgun or ANY firearm), no matter how innocently.

[rdharma]

32. Clueless!

[AtheistCrusader]

33. Yes, someone is.

Someone certainly is.

You realize you can buttstroke a wounded bird on the ground right? Not much different than someone's face at shoulder level, except you're probably positioned over the end of the barrel to extend that far.

Person you are responding to upthread is implying 2 friends died because their weapons discharged in this position.

Not entirely implausible.

[rdharma]

34. It keeps getting better!

[AtheistCrusader]

80. I said the same thing a different way

so if it's 'getting better' perhaps your reading comprehension is getting less faulty.

[Lizzie Poppet]

37. Oh, but he's a former (or was it current?) LEO!

[Link Speed]

35. Maybe you can enlighten me.

Heh?

One thing I do know, however, is that any stranger caught crawling thru a window in my house will be leaving on a stretcher.

[rdharma]

36. Shooting an unarmed drunken kid? Sounds cowardly to me!

[Link Speed]

40. Split-second decisons can save your life.

Taking time to decide if someone is sober and/or unarmed and/or juvenile or adult can get you killed dead.

I'll choose staying alive, every time. To me, the choice is simple.

Empathy/sympathy/sensitivity have their place(s), but not in that situation. I prefer to live in my house rather than mouldering away in the cold, cold ground.

Shit does happen, y'know. And when it does, I want to watch it go down rather than be caught in the toilet's swirl.

And you still have not enlightened me re: 'buttstroke'.

[rdharma]

41. But I thought they were mafia hit men!

How could I have known that they were just Jehova's Witnesses?

[AtheistCrusader]

77. I don't know about you but I am not such a thundering MMA Ninja that I cannot

be beaten to death by fists and feet. I'd love to be immune, really, what's your secret?

[Jenoch]

75. 20/20 hindsight

[tumtum]

38. If someone coming through my window at night

and they can get past my 2 very large German Shepards, I'm not going to say anything, I'll let Mr. Mossberg do my talking.

[rdharma]

39. I think I hear an old fart trying to play "tough guy"!

[Link Speed]

44. I think you are dealing with two Vietnam vets.

Two guys who didn't 'grow up' on video games.

Life is a bitch. Some of us have, quite simply, experienced more of it.

[rdharma]

46. I "missed" that one. Did we win and save our country from invasion by the Viet Cong and NVA?

[tumtum]

47. I'm no tough guy,

I flew tough machines for a living, but I'm not a tough guy.

You know what else I'm not?
A rude, condescending jerk.

[Link Speed]

42. I see that you and I have worn the same ribbon.

I haven't been around DU for very long, but I have observed that there are more than a few here with a dearth of real-life experience but a wealth of opinion. The firearm thing seems to bring them out in droves.

I prefer vintage wine, whiskey and people.

There is a balance found in vintage.

[rdharma]

43. Firearms and Depends Adult Undergarments.

They go together!

[Link Speed]

48. The sophistication of your humor is astounding.

Absolutely astounding. 100 bucks says you have never won a fight that did not include a keyboard.

The gall of you, making light of two Vietnam vets. Yeah, we are older, but we have been there. Not some fucking fantasy, bit the Real Deal.

I am now officially bored with you.

Oh, yeah, you have yet to enlighten me re: buttstroke.

Another $100 says you have never delivered whatever one of those is, unless the definition does not include a firearm, but a keyboard (or something).

[tumtum]

45. Vietnam, Grenada and Desert Shield/Desert Storm.

1st tour was in a Huey, 2nd was in a Cobra gunship,
Grenada, flew a BlackHawk,
Gulf War, Apache gunship.

And you are right about the dearth of real life experience.

[rdharma]

49. Grenada! That's where I know you from.

Sur La Mer ....St. George's.....

Man! That was a hardship tour!

But we kept them from invading Miami!

[tumtum]

54. Hardship tour? Grenada?

[rdharma]

55. Do you really need the sarcasm thingy to get the joke?

Well here it 'tis

I did get sun burned. Didn't get a purple heart and I'm still pissed about that! (Do I need to post the sarcasm thingy again?)

[tumtum]

56. No need.

I understood it for exactly what it was.

[Link Speed]

50. ...

read my post #43, above.

Bathrobes and basements.

I think that there are people on this site that fucking live this site.

[rdharma]

51. And then there are those who try to claim they stopped the invasion of the USA in VietNam!

[Jenoch]

76. Some people might say you

are delusional with a post such as this. I just think you don't know any better.

[AtheistCrusader]

79. War is a liberal education for those that have fought in it, I have observed.

Not so much for the Cheney's and Bush's of the world. (Papa bush notwithstanding)

[AtheistCrusader]

78. Dogs are actually my barometer to establish the intruder's intentions.

If I hear 'oh shit oh shit, mister call off your dogs', chances are we have no critical problem requiring deadly force. Drunken entry to the wrong house, petty theft, whatever. Doesn't call for deadly force.

I hear one pained yelp out of my dogs (both of whom are teddy bears and would never bite anyone), and I'm going to assume the worst.

[Kolesar]

53. One of my classmates murdered a neighbor kid in a third family's basement with a shot gun

It was about two blocks from my house. He had to come up with a story that the witness could corroborate with him on. The murderer went to some kind of juvenile detention for several years.

[ileus]

57. Murder is a bad thing indeed.

[rdharma]

58. SYG laws enable murderers. nt

[tumtum]

59. Which has nothing to do with this thread.

[rdharma]

61. Homicide has nothing to do with this thread? Really?

A kid killed another unarmed kid.

[tumtum]

65. Didn't say that this wasn't about a justified homicide.

And you know it.
I said this thread isn't about SYG.

[rdharma]

70. Just FYI. I'm a multiple linguist.

Do you know what "tumtum" (טאמטאם means in Hebrew?

Just giving you a heads up, my friend.

[tumtum]

72. Don't know what it means in Hebrew,

Don't care what it means in Hebrew.
I'm not Jewish.

[rdharma]

73. I'm not Jewish either.....

But if you use that name in Hebrew speaking circles, you might get some chuckles!

[ileus]

60. They also enable victims.

or rather potential victims...

[rdharma]

62. Enable victims to do WHAT? Murder drunken kids?

[ileus]

63. No prevent themselves from being murdered.

safety first, victim later.

[rdharma]

64. I thought the black kid selling magazines was a home invader...... So I shot him!

Safety first, right? He could have had a gun!

You gun hugging morons are simply amazing!

[ileus]

66. you probably should own a firearm if you're that paranoid

of black people. (no one should in that case)



On the other hand if you're serious about personal safety SYG helps insure you don't have to be a willing victim first.


The last black kids that come to my door (besides my niece and nephew) were JW's, I politely listened to their pitch then told them my next door neighbors were JW's pay them a visit. LOL

[rdharma]

67. I'm not black ..... but a lot of people mistake me for black, or Muslim, or other scary stuff!

Y'all need to grow a set! Without a gun...... you cowards!

[ileus]

68. An attacker can be any race...

Remember always choose the most efficient means of response when attacked. Physical altercations was for high school and college kids, I have a family to protect and provide for. Why risk death when it's not necessary, it's not a competition where your opponent has been matched to your classification...it's a chance we don't have to take.

Safety first, and carry on.

[rdharma]

69. When in doubt, crap your pants?

Pathetic!

Land of the free.... home of the doughy pantloads?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

71. Pathetic indeed

I do enjoy irony.

Have a nice night.

[Nunliebekinder]

82. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.