Are there any reasons *not* to have a legal "cooling-off" period before handgun purchase?

[moriah]

We have no mandated waiting periods in my state. If you are legal to purchase a gun, you can, and as soon as your background check comes back, you're good to go. When I purchased a firearm, mine came back in 15 minutes.

However, I'm very thankful a friend of mine's took longer. See, Sunday morning he told me he thought he was going to kill himself. He had a plan: to acquire a .45 and shoot himself. He had the money to buy it. He had never said anything like that before -- he'd admitted he was down, he knew I'd had my own battles with depression, but he'd never said he was going to do it. He had a .22, but said he knew he'd just maim himself with that low of a caliber, and he didn't think he could buy a gun on a Sunday. When you're an adult, though, there's only so much the law can do to save you. When I got him to pass out, I called the suicide hotline. They said to call his doctor. I called, he said if I couldn't get him in the car and to the ER, to call 911. But he denied suicidal thoughts, so they couldn't do anything. Another friend took over... got him on tape. Went to the prosecuting attorney to get a writ for a 72-hour hold.

While we were getting the writ, he was at a pawn shop to purchase the gun. If the background check had come back right away, he would have had his method in his hands. We had the writ by 1 PM Monday, it was a mess but we finally got him in custody at 10 AM on Tuesday. We found the receipt when we went over to feed his cat. The guy at the pawn shop was horrified today, after the hearing where he was involuntarily committed for 21 days (and thus cannot ever purchase another firearm) -- the background check came back fine Tuesday at noon. He already had ammo. He appeared rational. He said he needed it for self-defense, he lives in a bad neighborhood. The seller had no reason to believe he was a danger to himself.

I think it was sheer, dumb luck that my friend is alive today, and not dead.

And it makes me wish there was a waiting period. So many of my friends thought there was, so didn't take him as seriously. When he said he'd purchased it and was waiting on it, people got worried. But he might not have had to wait. I knew from my experience that I got mine instantly.

Is there a legitimate reason not to have a waiting period? Is there a way for, say, a domestic violence victim with a piece of paper stating they have a restraining order, to be able to show that to bypass a waiting period for legitimate self-defense?

[Decoy of Fenris]

1. No constitutional conflictions that I can think of.

I'm rather ambivalent towards waiting periods in general. I don't think they'll reasonably increase safety or security by any amount greater than statistical margin of error.

I would agree to anyone demonstrating documented or legal -need- of said firearm within a timeframe being able to purchase on the spot, though. That'd be a nice touch to any legislation going down this path.

[moriah]

2. It doesn't stop private party sales to my knowledge...

... and that's our worry if he is still in a bad place when he gets out. No law can protect everyone.

But if I was in a bad situation and didn't already have a firearm, I know places to go get one -- as in, friends relatives who will be more than willing to bring their happy rears along with their firearms to keep me safe. At the moment, I'm still emotionally raw so I'm probably not thinking entirely clearly. But I'd rather a victim of DV (especially one who had never shot before) have to hit up a friend who could at least show them how to use the blasted thing before they got their hands on it in an emotionally volatile situation, than a friend in a bad place emotionally die because their check came back in 15.

Not everyone has the kind of friends that my friend had, though, or that I have. (And fortunately he seemed to forgive us for having to testify against him to make sure he got the help he needed -- I'm petsitting his cat now.)

[Decoy of Fenris]

3. Sadly, in a bit of brief research, a reasonable waiting period seems moot.

From my understanding and reading of a few studies, suicide after handgun purchases remains an elevated risk up to five years after the purchase, and mortality by firearm is mildly increased in female firearm owners. Male owners are largely unaffected.

(http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199911183412106)

Even the Brady provisions imposed in full force corroborate no resultant change in firearm suicides or homicides in states where implemented, and they include comprehensive background checks and waiting periods; the only statistically relevant change would be a slight (-.01%) reduction in suicides of males over the age of 55.

(http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199911183412106)


I think your friend may be the exception to the rule; an anomaly. Perhaps a happy anomaly, but an anomaly none the less. I'm not certain legislation based on that would serve any meaningful purpose.

(Edited for clarification.)

[moriah]

16. One statistic that is interesting, though.

Far more people die from suicide by firearms than they do homicide by firearms in the US.

That is used by anti-gun people, but it does also to me suggest priorities for public policy should include addressing making sure things get into NCIC system like court orders for involuntary commitment, along with criminal records. There's part of me that wants to see if he can pass the check at an FFL when he gets out... when he's better enough not to say "Woot!" if he passed despite the court order.

[Duckhunter935]

4. makes no sense

if you already have weapons. But there is no way for the retailer to know. OK has no waiting period.

[Decoy of Fenris]

5. I think it's designed to stop potential "passion" buys, like suicide or vengeance.

I don't see it dramatically affecting anything, and studies seem to back that, but otherwise I have no real problem so long as the waiting period is not dramatically inconveniencing.

[ileus]

6. The biggest problem is...

You finally scratch up the dough for that new P227 and you head down to the LGS and plop down the cash and wait. 48 seconds after getting home your dryer bites the dust. Return to the LGS and get your money back, or if the LGS didn't take money down there goes your hard earned mad money out the door.

This almost happened to me yesterday....I come home was surfing PSA for a BCG for my third AR and there it was, a full auto bolt (more mass for better cycling in a semi-auto with the right buffer) PSA's deal of the day 139 bucks
+7 shipping 146.00 total, down from 186 bucks. If you've tried to buy a BCG for an AR this year you'll know how nice it was to find one in stock.
I placed the order. Shortly after dinner my DW informed me "Somethings wrong with the dryer, it's making a grinding sound." So the kids went out to the pool I pulled the dryer out into the dinning room and took it apart. I went ahead and ordered some PM parts to go along with a drum bearing....total 142.xx LOL.....good news is I'd already ordered the BCG. If she'd mentioned it when I walked in I'd be crying the blues.

Good news is we're heading to the funshow this weekend, I'm hoping to score a fullsized HD 45 or a full sized 9mm (M&P or 226) this weekend while my wife buys back to school clothes for the kiddies.


As for your domestic violence victim I sure wouldn't have a problem allowing the instant purchase if there was some kind of waiting period in effect. Most of my purchases take months or a year of research trying to decide what new firearm to buy. For my wife it took her one 8 hour class and two, two hour days of hunting for the perfect carry firearm for her.

[moriah]

14. My thought is this -- they don't take the money until you pick up the gun.

They go ahead and hold it for you, and let your background check come through. Or you do a deposit, and you can get it back.

Because think about it -- a good reason for a cooling-off period could be that it would mean you *would* get your money back! At least, if the law was written that way.

[Democracyinkind]

7. ...

[jimmy the one]

9. most popular

He had a .22, but said he knew he'd just maim himself with that low of a caliber

Oddly enough as an aside, the 22 caliber is the 'most popular' caliber to use for suicide & attempts. Tho this is in itself misleading, since iirc about 20% are done by 22 caliber, meaning 80% are done by other calibers, most all higher calibers. So the 22 caliber wins the plurality race, is all.
.. Suicide was also once considered 'illegal'. True. Penalty was forfeiture of some property rights & some inheritance diverted to state rather than family. Intended to prevent 'easy way out' (thought at the time) & depriving states of the person's labor for his remaining years. Perhaps when corvee' labor system emplaced.

[rrneck]

10. The same reason there is a reason to have one.

Sometimes life doesn't give you time to jump through hoops. What if your friend was being stalked by someone who had expressed an intent to kill him, but no actual proof was available? It's difficult to get something like that on tape.

This seems to crop up a lot. We are trying to find a strategic solution to a tactical problem.

It's just about impossible to write a fair and just law based on what some unidentified future person might do.

[moriah]

15. In that case... I'd loan him/her mine.

As I said, it doesn't really stop private party sales/transfers to have a waiting period.

But I can say with the depression he'd spiraled into, none of his *friends* would have given my friend their gun. If he'd found a street thug just in it for the cash, or found a classified ad.... well, that's what I'm hoping he doesn't remember.

[rrneck]

17. Well yeah. You asked for a legitimate reason to not have a waiting period. I gave you one.

Mandating a waiting period would, to be effective, have to bring with it the force of law which would include penalties and some means of enforcement. So you'd be breaking the law to loan him the gun. Laws that force people to choose between their legal obligations and the reality of their lives are unjust. That's the problem with most of the issues surrounding guns. The same problems apply to "stand your ground", "duty to retreat", and regulated private transfers.

As I said, they are a strategic solution to a tactical problem.

[Eleanors38]

11. Lack of sound research indicating a good reason for the law?

Better public policy -- and debate -- come from good research indicating a need for change; you propose it, you defend it.

Perhaps a measure mandating a short & specific wait period without showing how such will change things for the better will stand constitutionally, but many controller/banners will seek to extend the wait -- again, with no research to support a longer wait.

Prohibition is our most addictive social policy.

[spin]

12. I don't have to through my state's waiting period as I have a concealed weapons permit. ...

What Are the Gun Laws in Florida?

Excluding weekends and legal holidays, there is a three-day waiting period to purchase a handgun from a retail establishment. Exempt from the waiting period are concealed weapons permit holders and those trading in another handgun.
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_fl.htm

I see absolutely no problem with this.

[moriah]

13. I appreciate the responses.

I just wish it took less time to get someone who you *do* have on tape about to off himself the help they need than it takes for that person to get a gun.

Honestly a lot of my issue was with the way the system handled things. A credible threat on tape should be enough for a 72 hour hold without having to get a judge to sign papers. But that's another set of laws relating to personal freedoms that few want to give away in the name of security.

[gopiscrap]

18. There should be a minimum 90 day cooling off period one year would be better

Last edited Wed Aug 21, 2013, 12:05 AM - Edit history (1)

[Jenoch]

19. Really?

You expect someone to wait a year to legally purchase a handgun? What about the people who are NOT suicidal?

You seem to be the type who would wish to ban handgun ownership, if so, what is your plan to accomplish this?

[gopiscrap]

20. Yeah Really!

actually I think ALL guns should be banned, but that wasn't the proposal being discussed.

[Jenoch]

21. What's your plan?

How much political capital are you willimg to expend? Even a hard push by Democrats to enact a national gun registration law would guarantee Republican control of both houses of congress and the White House for the forseeable future.

[gopiscrap]

22. If I had my way

I would melt all guns I come into contact with

[Jenoch]

23. That sounds like your very own

Superman fantasy. Do you have any realistic plan that would not hand congress and the White House for at least a generation?

[Lizzie Poppet]

24. Wish for a pony, too!

And super powers!

[Eleanors38]

25. See #11.