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Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:46 AM

Saturday Shooting Review

It was suggested I post this here, as it's more in this group's SOP: "Discuss gun politics, gun control laws, the Second Amendment, the use of firearms for self-defense, and the use of firearms to commit crime and violence."

Here is just some of the gun violence against children from the past week (3/20-3/270 that you should be aware of and which will hopefully motivate you to join the American Academy of Pediatrics and others who are advocating for ways to keep our kids safe:

• A 10 year-old boy was shot inside his home.

• Another 10 year-old boy was shot while on a walk.

• An 8 year-old boy was shot on his porch.

• A 5 year-old boy and a 1 year-old boy were among several shot in their home.

• A 7 year-old boy was shot at home.

• A 15 year-old boy was shot in a backyard.

• A 10 year-old boy was shot at a birthday party.

• A 2-year-old boy and two toddler girls were shot in their living room.

• A 4 year-old boy was shot at home.

• A 16 year-old girl was shot in an alley.

• A 15 year-old girl was shot in the street.

• Another 16 year-old girl was shot in the street.



Also this week, by way of follow-up: A man accused of shooting two teenage intruders at his home has been indicted on first-degree, premeditated murder charges in connection with the killings.

Here's to a better week.

21 replies, 2238 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Saturday Shooting Review (Original post)
Robb Apr 2013 OP
gopiscrap Apr 2013 #1
premium Apr 2013 #2
gejohnston Apr 2013 #3
AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #4
krispos42 Apr 2013 #5
Kolesar Apr 2013 #6
ileus Apr 2013 #7
DonP Apr 2013 #8
spin Apr 2013 #14
DonP Apr 2013 #17
spin Apr 2013 #18
DonP Apr 2013 #19
spin Apr 2013 #21
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2013 #9
sylvi Apr 2013 #10
CokeMachine Apr 2013 #11
kudzu22 Apr 2013 #12
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2013 #15
JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #13
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2013 #20
Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2013 #16

Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:53 AM

1. Get rid of all private handgun ownership

and assault weapons.

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:58 AM

2. How? nt.

 

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:07 AM

3. some good points, some not

two are in Chicago, where handguns are banned and appear to be gang related.

http://wgno.com/2013/04/22/quintuple-shooting-in-harvey/#axzz2RfsMX9NS
home invasion or street gang hit?

http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/local/montgomery/15-yr-old-girl-shot-in-drive-by#.UXvlPFGNPuN
gang related

A couple are avoidable accidents.

indicted isn't the same as convicted. Let's wait until after the trial.
http://www.startribune.com/local/204730381.html?page=1&c=y&refer=y

Most of those suggestions would not help in these cases. The accidents yes, the gang violence no.

The first three lines were from flawed studies that have been debunked during peer review and have no basis in fact. The Clinton administration hired sociologists to review the gun studies done by medical journals. They reported and testified to congress that the studies were junk science and on the same level as NRA propaganda.

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:10 AM

4. Criminals should be prosecuted. Your last link leads to a history of non-violent buglaries by which

 

teenagers were harassing a frustrated homeowner by previously breaking into his when he was absence.

At the time of the shooting, they were not there to do him any physical harm and he knew it. Certain video and audio tapes apparently show his knowledge, his frustration, and intent to kill them.

The boy (Brady) had been involved with breaking into the home last summer. For the girl (Kifer), this may have been her first thrill burglary.

"Prosecutors have said that Smith shot the teens, who were unarmed, multiple times as they walked down the stairs to his basement about 10 minutes apart."
...
"Prosecutors said at a December court hearing that Smith had videotape of the teens outside his home before they broke in. They said he also had an audiotape of the killings that recorded Smith telling Brady “You’re dead” in the seconds after he was shot. He later taunted Kifer after shooting her several times, calling her “bitch” as he fired a shot beneath her chin and into her cranium, prosecutors said.

“He shot Haile Kifer three times in the head,” prosecutor Todd Kosovich said at a court hearing in December. “There’s no way that’s self-defense.”

"Smith then dragged the bodies into a workshop where they remained before police were called to the home the next day.

http://www.startribune.com/local/204730381.html?page=1&c=y&refer=y

Again, criminals should be prosecuted. We have laws against murder. The authories are enforcing them. A removal of any firearm from the home prior to the event would not have stopped him. The frustrated homeowner was aware of the teens prior to their intrusion, and if he did not have a firearm, there is nothing to indicate that he would not have otherwise used a bat, an axe, a knife, or whatever. Send him to prison.

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:41 AM

5. Here is fine.

What, you think I'm going to be petty or something?

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:46 AM

6. Rec/don't like ... eom

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 01:22 PM

7. My family just finished shooting...fun had by everyone.

We had a few hours between Baseball (son) and Softball (daughter @6) games so we hit the neighbors to do a little shooting.

My daughter loves shooting the AR since I invested in the CMMG conversion, it's a hoot for the whole family to shoot now. I won't shoot anything but the pistols and shotguns, IMHO rifles are a little too loud unless they're 22lr's.

My son has been on a shotgun kick since Turkey season come in and keeps insisting on always shooting his turkey gun.

It had been a while since my wife and I had shot our EDC's so we managed to get in some much needed trigger time behind our PSD's.

Well I gotta go pitch softball now, looks like half of my daughters softball team is waiting on me.

Until the next time.....carry on and stay safe.

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 02:22 PM

8. Oh good, "Guns in the News", version 7.2

 

Pay attention gun owners.

You should all read these news items, even the ones that are wrong, and feel ashamed for not agreeing with the echo chamber leadership on gun control. Please don't post Armed Citizen stories to offset these, it upsets the balance of nature because they are all lies and we know it.

They post them here because I assume they want at least a few people to actually see them.

In the past decade the many versions of the "Google News Dump" has proven to be a very "effective" tool in shaming gun owners into changing their positions and throwing away all their guns, really, really it has.

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Response to DonP (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 06:12 PM

14. All armed citizen stories are lies?

And we all know it?

While there is absolutely no doubt that firearms can be misused and tragedies often result, it is also true that firearms can be used for legitimate self defense and are.

I could post numerous links to demonstrate this fact but the effort would probably be futile as you would apparently believe that these stories were all fiction.

No survey on defensive gun use claimed that it never happened.

Defensive gun use

Defensive gun use (DGU) is the use of a firearm in self-defense or defense of others. The frequency of defensive firearms incidents, and their effectiveness in ensuring safety and reducing crime is a controversial issue in gun politics and criminology.[1]:64 Different authors and studies employ different criteria for what constitutes a defensive gun use, which at times leads to controversy in comparing statistical results. Perceptions of the number of DGUs dominate discussions over gun rights, gun control, and concealed carry laws.

Estimates of frequency

Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary wildly, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Getz cite between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64-65[2][3] Low end estimates by Hemenway cite approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States.[1]:65[6] The basis for the studies, the National Self-Defense Survey and the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), vary in their methods, time-frames covered, and questions asked.[7] DGU questions were asked of all the NSDS sample.[3] Due to screening questions in the NCVS survey, only a minority of the NCVS sample were asked a DGU question.[8] Besides the NSDS and NCVS surveys, ten national and three state surveys summarized by Kleck and Gertz gave 764 thousand to 3.6 million DGU per year.[3] Hemenway contends the Kleck and Gertz study is unreliable and no conclusions can be drawn from it.[4] He argues that there are too many "false positives" in the surveys, and finds the NCVS figures more reliable, yielding estimates of around 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Applying different adjustments, other social scientists suggest that between 250,000 and 370,000 incidences per year.[9]

Another survey including DGU questions was the National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms, NSPOF, conducted in 1994 by the Chiltons polling firm for the Police Foundation on a research grant from the National Institute of Justice. NSPOF projected 4.7 million DGU per year by 1.5 million individuals after weighting to eliminate false positives.[8] Discussion of over the number and nature of DGU and the implications to gun control policy came to a head in the late 1990s.[10][11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use




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Response to spin (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:44 PM

17. Sorry, left the sarcasm tag off

 

We should probably take turns posting from the Kopel site that inventories lawful self defense stories.

But of course, first all the stories sources would have to be scrutinized by our friends in the echo chamber.

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Response to DonP (Reply #17)

Sun Apr 28, 2013, 12:30 PM

18. I think Kopel's numbers are high. ...

Still the low estimate of 55,000-80,000 DGUs is not inconsequential.

Your lack of the sarcasm thingy offered me the opportunity to post the statistics on DGU. The media rarely mentions these estimates as it wouldn't help its agenda.

Perhaps I feel strongly on this subject because my mother was able to stop a rapist because she was armed.

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Response to spin (Reply #18)

Sun Apr 28, 2013, 01:16 PM

19. It's ironic ...

 

That victims of gun related crimes are treated as the ultimate authorities on policy matters that can't be questioned, or you obviously have no heart.

But people that defend themselves with a gun, shots fired or not, are treated as either liars or just more "gun nuts" that can be ignored.

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Response to DonP (Reply #19)

Sun Apr 28, 2013, 03:16 PM

21. Gun control advocates often rely on emotion. ...

It's a very effective tactic. Facts and statistics can be labeled "NRA talking points" and dismissed.

A high percentage of gun violence in the United States is the result of gang warfare in cities such as Chicago. Better enforcing existing laws and punishing those who break them would help reduce this problem but gun control advocates largely ignore this perhaps because this solution is expensive and doesn't create the emotion that "banning weapons of mass destruction" does.

Of course there are many other logical ideas that would reduce gun violence in our nation, none of which involve banning firearms. I find it sad that the gun control advocates totally ignore them.

Arresting anyone caught illegally carrying a firearm in public and sending them to jail rather than giving them probation would reduce gun violence far more than banning AR-15 style rifles.



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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:35 PM

9. Thanks but...

...I think you need to be a pediatrician to join the AAP:
http://www.aap.org/en-us/Pages/Default.aspx

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:36 PM

10. I wonder why the American Academy of Pediatrics

 

doesn't talk about the nearly 2000 people who die every week due to preventable medical errors.

I'm sure there's a lot more than 12 kids somewhere in that 2000, but for some reason that doesn't excite anyone's passion.

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:03 PM

11. Thanks for contributing!!

 

Must be getting bored in the other group.

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:37 PM

12. And 199,999,988 guns that didn't kill anybody.

Sorry, no link for that. Guess it's not newsworthy.

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Response to kudzu22 (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 06:34 PM

15. Well your numbers are off.

There's about 280,000,000 guns in the US in private hands. I've been told that we have 30,000 firearm related deaths per year. I've also heard often from pro-control circles that a higher density of guns causes more deaths.

A simple calculator can divide 280,000,000 by 30,000 and show that if we only keep 9,000 or more guns from getting together in one place, we'd have many fewer deaths.

I mean guns are like cigarette smoke, right?

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:59 PM

13. Pure shame-bait

 

as are the majority of your other posts. Shouldn't you be busy banning people from the Ivory Tower?

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Response to JohnnyBoots (Reply #13)

Sun Apr 28, 2013, 02:47 PM

20. That would be rather self-defeating wouldn't it?

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Response to Robb (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 07:51 PM

16. so then, accidents = crimes + violence ...?

never was any good at math.

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