Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumARs are finally hitting the shelves.
Just stopped in a local shop for some turkey loads and performed a count, 17 ARs and 7 AK style rifles. They also had 223 and 556 in stock.
It refreshing to finally see these guys back in stock at okay prices. 995 for the least expensive AR in 556, but this gives hope to those who thought it was too late a few months ago.
I still need a bolt and charging handle for my newest self defense AR. This also gives me hope of getting a 6.8 before next season rolls around.
If you didn't have the ultimate affordable home defense rifle you now have a second chance...
Paul E Ester
(952 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...
ileus
(15,396 posts)And he had 556 on stripper clips but I didn't catch that number.
I found 225 bulk packs at walturd this week and they had 223 Tula on the shelf. I've been leaving the low hanging fruit for the next happy customers.
I've stopped buying anything except 22 since December. As 380,9,45,40 shows up I may start picking some up again. It's almost family shooting season (that doesn't sound right) uh...family fun shooting time? Eh...you know what I mean.
Last edited Sun Apr 7, 2013, 11:46 AM - Edit history (1)
Went to my local WalMart yesterday and they had a couple of AR's in the case. Also had 5.56 and 7.62X39 ammo in stock.
Picked up a couple of boxes of .357 ammo while I was there.
The academy I work at, the 7.62x39 has been sitting around while the .223 flies out the door when we get it in.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Kolesar
(31,182 posts)More than that, in my case
premium
(3,731 posts)Kolesar
(31,182 posts)premium
(3,731 posts)sylvi
(813 posts)Deep13
(39,154 posts)Honestly considering selling my AR. They are becoming so socially unacceptable that I have to pretend I haven't got one. Besides I it's hard to find a place or even the time to shoot it.
ileus
(15,396 posts)I'd dare say none.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Stick it in a back pack and pack it in to our stand in the morning. I don't have an over under anymore and broke down the AR will fit in our pack. We'll carry the shotgun.
I set my DWs AR up for target shooting so it has a 4-12 scope on it.
Pullo
(594 posts)Even the "gun hoarders" and "gun nuts" have stopped worrying about it.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Both?
hack89
(39,171 posts)Thus, while .223 Remington ammunition can be safely fired in a 5.56 mm chambered gun, firing 5.56 mm ammunition in a .223 Remington chamber may produce pressures in excess of even the 5.56 mm specifications due to the shorter throat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington
rdharma
(6,057 posts)oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Willful ignorance is not pretty.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester
rdharma
(6,057 posts)oldhippie
(3,249 posts)... how many years you spent as a military armorer?
Why do you continue to act so foolish? Yes, there are differences. Go on some gun forums and research "deep throat."
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Never said I was a military armorer. They are almost the lowest level of gunsmithing.
Check out chamber reamer dimensions there, Mr. Gun "ex-spurt"!
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)... or freebore? Then there are pressure levels, bullet lengths to ogive ...
OK, you do it your way.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)rdharma
(6,057 posts)........between commercially loaded .223 Rem. and (M193 or M85) 5.56 x 45 NATO?
Do the NATO rounds always have a longer ogive length?
What? You mean to tell me you have never measured them to see?
What? You mean you don't know how and don't have the equipment to to measure that dimension...... that you're just palavering something you read on the internet or heard from BUbba at the local gun show. (Bubba was a NAVY SEAL, right?)
http://ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)rifle in the .223 that cannot use 5.56 ammo. My brother has an AR that can safely shoot both. They are not exactly the same and are not always interchangable.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Oh! And what make and model of rifle would that be, eh?
clffrdjk
(905 posts)But you go right ahead
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)by BSA, Birmingham Small Arms Company, in England. BSA was a major gun manufacturer that was started in 1861 and was sold and broken up in the early 70s.
BSA was a major industrial company, once manufacturing Daimler autos and Triumph motorcycles.
There are .223 rifles out there that could be seriously damaged and possibly dangerous to shoot using 5.56, the pressures are too great. Although you may know more about the technical aspects of guns than I do, you do not know everything and your attempt to mock people on this thread has exposed your ignorance.
"There are .223 rifles out there that could be seriously damaged and possibly dangerous to shoot using 5.56, the pressures are too great."
FALSE!
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/
You're correct..... I don't know everything. But I'm quite knowledgeable in the areas of gunsmithing and ballistics.
And if it sounds like I'm "mocking" some of these posters ..... it's because they are trying to present themselves as "gun experts" while ridiculing some folks who are for sensible gun control, but don't know all the technical aspects of firearms.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)"Unfortunately, many of the facts that are often thrown around are simply what someone has heard from someone else, leading to a lot of misinformation being accepted as gospel."
That quote from the first parahraph of your link describes the the information contained on the pages in that link quite accurately.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)You obviously had that link in your "holster" to whip out. Why didn't you just reply to the OP with that link which you believe to have accurate information instead of replying in an insulting and insolent manner?
Oh never mind...that's a rhetorical question.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)rdharma
(6,057 posts)And they are sponsored by whom?
And I"M SURE you can produce dozens of documented examples of the nasty things that can happen when 5.56 is used in .223s. Can't you?
I'm still waiting for Jenoch's answer on make and model that "rifle his dad had" that couldn't use 5.56 in it!
Old internet "wive's tales" die hard, don't they y'all!
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)above. Your reading comprehension is also suspect. I did not write that my father 'had' the gun, I wrote that he has it. In fact he acquired it less than a year ago.
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)rdharma
(6,057 posts)Yes!
It was both actually. I wanted to point out who sponsors SAAMI and why it's in their best interest to discourage use of military 5.56 ammunition.
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)Would not know saami.
Part of the issue is in addition you have NATO and CIP, measuring pressures. all three use different techniques which give different numbers for the same load. another consideration is the chamber difference between 5.56 and 223.
really the only true 5.56 is the green tip military. they will chambers and fire in a 223 and though they may spec higher pressure the 223 chamber will limit the pressure and essentially there no worse than a hot load.
a modern firearm will handle the spike just fine. an older firearm will also probably be okay, but why take a chance with surplus ammo.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Maybe because you aren't?
Though I would steer clear of the lacquer covered steel case crap!
Not because it's dangerous....... but because it's crap!
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)..... all I need to know.
Off to ignore with you. You are not worth the time.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Maybe Slackmaster can tell us.
premium
(3,731 posts)why should he respond to anything from you?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Evil Clown is very quick with a joke, but his jests always have a barb. He has little patience for in-depth discussions and will often disrupt exchanges between serious forum participants by introducing irrelevant topics, fatuous quips, and offhand comments. His greatest thrill is to taunt and humiliate weaker or more plodding Warriors with his snappy ripostes. When a strong Warrior finally corners him Evil Clown will attempt to escape by accusing his attacker of having no sense of humor.
http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_34.php
that would explain this particular poster perfectly.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Some of our most prolific trolls of the past have behaved in very similar ways.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Jeesh! No need for your childish and insulting cartoons!
SQUEE
(1,315 posts)a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)rdharma
(6,057 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)and shows through exhaustive testing that they generate different chamber pressures with 5.56 consistently generating higher pressure.
And you conclusion is that they are identical. OK.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Don't try to put words in my mouth unless you care to cite my quote.
INSIGNIFICANT! DO you know what that means?
Did you read the entire article?
Your fears are UNFOUNDED.
Sorry to break that to you....... I know how some just LOVE to be afraid of EVERYTHING.
PS - President Obama and the "Libruls" aren't going to come for your guns!
hack89
(39,171 posts)accuse others of being scared.
Nothing about guns scares me.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Oh, brother! one strawman on top of the next!
With my background, I'm hardly scared of guns.
I'm afraid of crazy and irresponsible people having access to guns.
And if you aren't crazy or irresponsible....... I have no problem with you loving you guns.
hack89
(39,171 posts)and they certainly throw the word around a lot.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)no propose legislation would impact me in anyway whatsoever. I get to keep my AR-15s and my 30 round mags.
You mistake bemusement for anger and paranoia - the idea that gun controllers have to lock themselves away in a sheltered environment to protect themselves from dissenting ideas and them having the nerve to say that gun owners are fearful and paranoid. Cracks me up every time I visit.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)rdharma
(6,057 posts)That's my fear as well!
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)My experience in other calibers has consistently shown that ammunition that exhibits over-pressure symptoms is inherently inaccurate.
BTW, I can't ever recall seeing a box of ammunition that had both caliber designations - .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO or 5.56x45 - printed on it.
Different is different. It's clear from the first post in this silly diversion of a sub-thread that the intent was to badger and distract.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)sir pball
(4,758 posts)My dad went hog-slaughtering at his buddy's ranch in Texas after Xmas, picked up 200 rounds no problem
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)I don't have an AR but I do have a Mini 14.
I went today to a well known outdoor store to buy some ammo/ reloading supplies. The trip was a total waste of time. There was virtually no ammunition in the store - no rimfire except for 1 box of .17 HMR, no .223/5.56 at all, no .270, no .308, no .38/.357, no 9 mm, no .45 ACP.
There was also no way to reload anything - powder, no cases, almost no bullets, and 1 box of primers.
What a fucking disaster. I blame the fucking NRA for scaring the shit out of a lot of stupid people and making them panic into buying up everything on the shelves.
virginia mountainman
(5,046 posts)New york, Colorado, Connecticut, and the talk from the talking heads on tv has done far more to scare people than the NRA..
Actually the NRA has been proven correct, they where spot on correct about the coming wave of gun bans and gun control in all there commercials..
Someone HAD to prove them to be truthful...
tularetom
(23,664 posts)And .452 LRN bullets for use in cowboy action shooting. And IMR Trail Boss powder. And fucking small pistol primers.
And .357 hollow base wadcutters for crissakes.
I couldn't find any of those in the store today because the goddamn NRA scared the shit out of a bunch of dipshits and made them panic and buy up everything in sight. I didn't go there to buy rifle ammunition, I just went to stock up on some reloading supplies.
I have a pretty good stash, I can go awhile before I actually need any ammo. But its a pain in the ass to drive an hour to find shelves that looked like a swarm of locusts had got there before me.
It wasn't a total wipeout. I did find some 12 ga. sabot slugs and turkey loads.
I've been a gun owner for over 60 years and I know who my friends are. It may not be the administration but it sure as shit ain't the NRA either.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)I have a hard time finding .22s or .30-30s (OK so I'm old school, sue me) the NRA is for the NRA, they don't give a shit about gun owners or manufactures.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)littlewolf
(3,813 posts)I can not afford to feed it
.22 LR cheapest I have seen it is 150.00 for 1K rounds.
and it is darn hard to find at all.
derby378
(30,252 posts)Down here in the Dallas area, about three years ago you could grab a no-frills Romanian WASR-10 for about $350. Ever since December of last year, if you can even find a WASR-10, it'll cost you at least $900.
I'm almost afraid to ask what sort of price my Tantal will fetch, but even the 5.45 ammo has skyrocketed in price. Good thing I already have a stash.
bubbayugga
(222 posts)and $1,266.02. I saw the same rifle on gun broker with a buy now price of $2,300 the day I picked it up. Now if only I could feed it.
bluedigger
(17,087 posts)Should I have one locked and loaded by every window? Or would two be enough so that I can shoot one from each hand? What if the evil people chop a hole in my roof and come in behind me? I feel totally undefended right now. How many AR's will make me safe?
Serve The Servants
(328 posts)Multiple uppers.
sir pball
(4,758 posts)Even a 16"-barrel AR-type is too long for my tastes. When I have a home defense gun it's a .45 bullpup carbine - the significantly shorter round and set-back action make it roughly the same size as a submachine gun. Ideal for indoors. And if two 9-round magazines aren't enough for me, I'm evacuating like the house is on fire.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)They are all set up differently, but all can be used for defense. Usually most are in the safe and only one is usually behind the bedroom door. My current favorite is one just like this (not my pic, but just like mine0:
You may want more.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)oneshooter
(8,614 posts)SQUEE
(1,315 posts)Until then... I have 2 brand new Tavor SARs to learn.
I have noticed prices coming down, and that it takes 3 hours not 5 minutes for parts to sell out.
ARs and AKs are still ridiculously priced, even FALS PTRs and M1As are pretty inflated at the moment, but with returns hitting, I think this bubble will continue until fall, then I foresee a buyers market, and at that point I worry about proliferation and people that shouldn't be able to get them acquiring black rifles.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)oneshooter
(8,614 posts)told me to buy another CCW weapon. Got a SIG 220 so both of us are happy!
Response to ileus (Original post)
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