This is the price we pay for 21st Century Second Amendment "Freedom"

[jpak]

Fear when we enter a classroom.

Fear when we go to work.

Fear when we go to the movies.

Fear when we go the mall.

Fear when we walk or drive the streets.

It's time to take our country back from the fear mongering gun nuts.

Yup

[cantbeserious]

1. Agreed - Living In Fear Is Too High A Price To Pay

eom

[Lizzie Poppet]

2. Oddly enough, I don't feel afraid at all.

Perhaps that's because I actually understand how probability works. In any case, your fear is not my problem...

[jpak]

3. Then I take it you don't have a carry permit or loaded gun in your bedroom

[Lizzie Poppet]

4. Yes to both.

Gee, I wonder why I don't feel afraid...?

EDIT: I should point out that I don't have a loaded gun in my bedroom unless I'm in it. I'm an advocate of legally requiring proper gun security.

[Eleanors38]

50. With all that fear floating around, you'd think the controllers were paranoid.

[Lizzie Poppet]

57. Oh, heaven forfend!

[randr]

5. All thanks to the frightwing party

[iiibbb]

6. I thought the ones with guns are the ones who were afraid.

If you're so fearful... maybe you should seek professional help.

It's dopes like you who are fear-mongering. The "gun nuts" are paranoid.

All of us normal people live our lives.

[sarisataka]

8. That's what I thought

I see people here saying they are afraid to do routine activities. Many worry about getting caught in a crossfire at the mall, restaurant etc... Our delicate flower expert has a list of fears...

I have never been in, seen or heard of a group shoot out at any of these locations. I do not fear them when I am carrying. I do not fear them when I am not carrying. I recognize that there are people out there who prey on their fellows. I keep aware to spot them before they target me. I avoid them and situations that would give them an advantage. The only difference between carrying and not is what my last option happens to be. In one case, lethal force with a weapon; the other is lethal force without a weapon.

[iiibbb]

11. How exactly do I personally make America less safe?

Enlighten me.

Be specific.

[jpak]

12. Dopey is as dopey does

yup

[iiibbb]

13. You are obviously referring to your own posts... but logically you have no response but namecalling

[jpak]

14. dumb response

yup

[iiibbb]

16. Your example of a dumb response was indeed, dumb.

Mission accomplished.

[jpak]

22. Your responses are the dumbest and dopiest ever

You dope

[iiibbb]

29. Fail

Our Community Standards

It is the responsibility of all DU members to participate on our discussion forums in a manner that promotes a positive atmosphere and encourages good discussions among a diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints. Members should refrain from posting messages on DU that are disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. These broad community standards of behavior are maintained though the combined efforts of members posting and serving on citizen juries, using their own best judgment to decide what behavior is appropriate and what is not.

Members who cannot hold themselves to a high standard risk having their posts hidden by a jury of their peers, and being blocked out of discussion threads they disrupt. Those who exhibit a pattern of willful disregard for the Community Standards risk being in violation of our Terms of Service, and could have their posting privileges revoked.

[Eleanors38]

51. I think the OP believes he has a free pass to act as he does. And that seems to be the case.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

75. Well...

Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply in this thread. << http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172102671#post10 >>

[darkangel218]

73. Lmao he got locked out of his own thread :)

Yup.

[Starboard Tack]

62. Afraid of each other pretty much sums it up.

[needledriver]

7. Who's fear trumps whose?

The OP lists a number of "fears", yet how many posts have we read about the "mongering" "fear" of "gun nuts"?

Is "fear" of a home invasion, robbery, assault, animal attack, or even tyrannical government any less valid than the fears listed above?

One side of the RKBA argument allows people to help allay their fears by permitting them to possess tools they feel will help lessen their fear.

One side of the RKBA argument allows people to help allay their fears by forbidding other people to possess tools they feel will help lessen their fear.

Is the person too fearful to go to a mall or movie any less of a nut than the person who is too fearful to go to a mall or movie without being armed?

[iiibbb]

9. It is fundamentally flawed logic that people who prepare for something, do so because they fear it

I have a fire extinguisher and smoke detectors because I want to be prepared... not because I fear fire. I am less fearful because I've prepared for it.

I have insurance not because I fear the things that invoke it, but to be prepared for the things that we get insurance for.


Fear is an emotion for the unprepared. And being prepared doesn't necessarily mean arming yourself either. Everyone makes a determination for themselves how to prepare for life events....

but fear is totally the wrong word.

[jmg257]

25. Nope...fear is the right word. You want to be less fearful.

Last edited Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:00 PM - Edit history (2)

But its ok, a little fear is a good thing...keeps us from doing all kinds of stupid shit.
And fear causes us to do all kinds of smart stuff...like using car seats, wearing seat belts, putting fences around our pools, installing smoke alarms, passing laws to better protect us.

You fear being a victim...you feel the odds of your being a victim out weigh any inconveniences to 'being prepared'. You choose to be armed to diminish your fears. Your fears justify your desire to be armed.

You perceive needs based on fear. You want laws that best allow you to meet your needs, to try to protect against you/yours from those things you are afraid of. You want lawful CCW to be better prepared any time any where. You want continued access to the most efficient guns and rounds because of your fear of being outgunned. No one will tell you what you can and can't do. You fear Control will only hinder your ability to fullfil your needs. Limits reduce your capacity, make you less prepared...for confronting those things you fear.

You prepare yourself by being armed as much as possible because you fear the time you might actually need your gun, you won't have it. Fear causes you to pick the best caliber the best ammo, the best platforms for defense. If you're smart you practice too, to raise your odds when/if your fears are realized. You read magazines and books and forums, written by people with the same fears as you, who give anecdotes to show your wisdom in choosing to be prepared; who show you how to best be prepared...for whatever evil you fear is coming.

And unfortunately, you are stuck. You are in a circle of fear. You must always be prepared! You must always be ready! It can happen anywhere anytime...but It will NOT happen to YOU! YOU will NOT be a victim!

In this circle now, only your guns allow you to be less fearful.
You and so many others, with the same fear...and the same access. And varying levels of competence, sanity, morals, intelligence, etc.

Pretty sad that this is what we have come to, to feel safe, to feel prepared. To feel less fear.

Maybe its time to think of better ways to avoid it.

[iiibbb]

28. Tripe

That was pure tripe. But that's all you can do now... in this circle of tripe... is to perpetuate ad hominem diatribes on people you don't know and can only seem to imagine poorly.

[jmg257]

30. Don't be scared, be prepared. Fear. Really, its ok...We get it. nt

[iiibbb]

31. Look, I know you are counting coup and all... and the last word is important to score points...

But you are wrong. Your characterization of me is wrong, but I understand it's important to you to believe these things about gun owners in order to feel justified and win the respect of your cohort.

[jmg257]

33. What is counting coup? Who is my cohort?

Not important to believe, more interesting to understand...

So, why are YOU armed? What are you preparing for?

[iiibbb]

34. You can look them up... both words. There is nothing exotic about them.

I have guns for 2 reasons


(1) I lived in an area that was affected by a natural disaster. For about a week the government and law enforcement did not have things fully under control. Because of some things that happened, I first purchased a gun.

(2) I hunt.

(3) I have done competative shooting

(4) Where I hunt there are feral dog packs. The gun is a precaution. I'm out there alone. I'm miles from a road. They are known to be in the area. If I were fearful, I wouldn't go at all.

http://icwdm.org/handbook/carnivor/FeralDog.asp

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=4871902

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html

http://survivalscoop.blogspot.com/2009/08/surviving-wild-dog-attack.html


They are not something to be trifled with.


And it just goes to show that gun control people aren't in a position to tell people what they do and do not "need". There are many situations specific to individuals that I'm just not keen on some bureaucrat deciding its merit... this is a right to keep and bear arms... and for a law abiding citizen to decide for themselves what serves a perfectly reasonable need.



Edited to add.. I also have a concealed carry permit. Primarily to eliminate the subjectivity with which a law enforcement or game warden might interpret the way I have my pistol on my person or in my backpack for whatever reason.

[jmg257]

35. Counting coup...Winning of prestige in battle by the Plains Indians....

By acts of bravery.

Oooookaaaay.

I do know what a cohort is, curious who mine was though?

[jmg257]

36. Feral dog? Yikes...never worried about them...for me, it was always

The 2 legged predators that I feared.

You probsbly got it 'lucky' if that's your greatest concern.

[iiibbb]

39. Greatest concern that I'd consider carrying a gun for

I typically spend more of my time keeping myself out of situations where I would make me want one. Plus I work at places where they are forbidden, and being a law-abiding type, I respect those rules.

[jmg257]

41. Understood - and understand better now...thank you! nt

[iiibbb]

42. Sorry if I was brusk

OP is a rabble-rouser and I was projecting

[jmg257]

43. No worries...I was making assumptions, based on my own experiences,

and shouldn't have been.

Cheers!

[Eleanors38]

52. You protesteth too much, oh fearful one. Sleep well.

[jmg257]

55. I did...thanks!

Dreamt of guns to keep away the demons.

[Eleanors38]

96. Never had that dream. Let me in your dream, I'll let you in mine.

[jmg257]

103. Say the right words, all this can be yours... nt

[Eleanors38]

105. LOL. dream lover where are you, with a love oh so true?

[jmg257]

106. LOL! Cracking up! Cheers! nt

[Eleanors38]

116. My Mom made a feeble attempt to keep me from listening to that song...

I was 10! What could possibly go wrong? Bobby Darin, may he RIP.

CHEERS BACK AT YOU!

[bunnies]

15. Also the price we pay for being female.

Just sayin.

[krispos42]

17. *yawn*

Because in England nobody is ever afraid

[iiibbb]

18. The police in the US must be REALLY afraid.

Why would anyone go into that profession unless they were afraid.

And why do they keep carrying guns even after they retire?

Some scaredy people in our police and military ranks...

[jpak]

23. They have little fear of gun violence - yes

yawn indeed

[krispos42]

37. Yes, because all other violence is inconsequential.

[MineralMan]

19. I don't fear any of those situations.

Statistical data bear out the reasons for a lack of such fear. One needed go through life in a fearful state. That is a choice.

[invader zim]

20. you live in a lot of fear

How do you get up in the morning ??? zim

[jpak]

24. Concealed carriers are the real paranoids - they cannot leave home without

their widdle metal security blankets - and they cry like widdle babies when someone tells them "maybe we will not allow you to run with scissors".

yup

[iiibbb]

32. I have a permit. I leave home about 98.630136% of the time without a gun.

Like I've said in the past. I have it in order to make the laws concerning possession more consistant, and I carry a gun concealed when I hunt... or I should say it may be in or out of view and I don't want there to be a subjective decision being made by a game warden.

That's a real calculation based on the average number of days I hunt.

[raidert05]

38. Military...

Is what made paranoid...always "training like we fight, fight how we train" kind of stuff, I open carry everywhere I legally can and conceal, when I feel it could make someone feel uncomfortable or be inappropriate to have a gun be seen on my person...nothing make you more paranoid when you are in Israel drinking and some stranger starts asking questions about the US Warship in the harbor and what you do for the us navy..

[Eleanors38]

53. I do not whittle my guns! They are made of metal!

[spin]

21. So you finally admit that you are fearful when you leave your house. I always expected that. ....

I feel you spend a lot of your time being overly worried about those who legally carry firearms while ignoring the fact that the truly dangerous people are those who illegally carry firearms or have untreated or improperly treated severe mental issues. I don't fear having an encounter with such a person when I leave my house but since it is a remote possibility and also because I have over 40 years experience target shooting handguns, I carry one in order to be as prepared as I can be.

I live in Florida but I have little fear of a hurricane as I am prepared for one.

I will agree that the gun manufacturers portray our nation as far more dangerous than it really is in order to increase the sales of the products they manufacture. Violent crime has decreased to levels last seen in the late 60s which I remember as fairly peaceful and safe times. Both the gun rights organizations and the groups who favor much stronger gun laws do the same to increase membership and donations.

I often legally carry a firearm. Six years ago I lived in a fairly dangerous area of Tampa and while I didn't expect to be attacked, I did get in the habit of carrying a .38 snub nosed revolver in my pants pocket.

Now that I am retired and living in a much safer small town located in a rural area of North Florida I still often carry many because it is a habit. Perhaps since you appear to be honest and admitted your fear of those who legally carry, I should also be a bit more honest.

Often I have replied to your posts and said that I always carry a concealed weapon. While that is a fact, my statement might lead you believe that I always carry my revolver. Actually I always have a "weapon" on my person. Right now I have a neck knife under my shirt as I am wearing sweat pants. Often when I leave my home I am wearing cargo pants or shorts with a 4" fully serrated folding knife in one of the pockets. Technically these knifes are concealed weapons but I can legally carry a concealed knife as I have a concealed weapons permit from Florida and concealed knives are legal to carry in the state of Florida if you have this permit. In many states a carry permit applies to a firearm and knife carry is covered by other laws. (I should point out that I don't consider my knives as self defense weapons as I have no training in knife fighting. They are merely useful tools to me.)

[jpak]

26. Your fear is the cause of my fear

I want to eliminate my fear by making sure you leave your guns at home.

yup

[spin]

44. If a law passed outlawing any type of concealed carry except for those in law enforcement...

your safety from being injured in public by an armed person with a carry permit might increase by .00001% and that's a generous estimate.

But if such a law did pass some street thugs who left that specialty because they feared encountering an armed victim might decide that the street was now a much safer work environment. Your chances of being mugged would increase significantly.

I am absolutely certain that most criminals who were convicted of a violent felony would absolutely agree with you that no honest and responsible citizen should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. They would also vote for banning and confiscating all firearms.

[Politicalboi]

27. I can see some fear about classrooms for kids

But the other things are everyday life situations. I don't have a gun, I don't need a gun, I don't WANT a gun. It is a shame some here feel they need a gun to be safe. IMO it's just the opposite.

[bucky balls]

49. If the lady in this report was your mother, would you rather she didn't have a gun?

It's a simple question...

http://www.newson6.com/story/20568878/shawnee-woman-thwarts-home-invasion

[Eleanors38]

54. No "shame" in having a gun for SD. And I don't have

Much fear, except that experienced by anyone uninsured and racing toward 65 Medicare eligibility, and hoping to win. Days are safe, my vehicle is fairly safe, my house is hazardous. But I have BU plans, alarms, seat belts, a .38, friends. Not bad. Stay safe.

[Clames]

40. OP is nothing but fear, paranoia, and whining.

You aren't doing shit until you put your money where your keyboard is...


Yup.

[Starboard Tack]

63. Says our resident NRA troll. Why are you still here?

[Clames]

64. NRA troll?

Never been a member or paid a dime to them. I even qualify for free membership. I'm here for the same reason thousands of others are. Go find another puddle to play in if you don't like it...

[Starboard Tack]

65. I'm sure you do qualify for free membership.

You are here to counter any suggestions that might reduce gun proliferation or restrict the kinds of weapons already in circulation or any kind of legislation that might help reduce the daily slaughter.

[Clames]

66. Only the suggestions that don't pass the common sense test.

AWB's don't pass that test (proven by studies conducted by the DoJ and Penn. State). Magazine bans don't pass that test (vast majority of firearm murders are from 5 or less rounds fired from cheap handguns). Registration doesn't pass that test (Chicago, Los Angeles, D.C., NYC, Canada, etc.). Online ammunition sale bans, one-gun-a-month laws, microstamping: all proven to have zero effect on gun violence. How about you actually make the attempt to come up with suggestions that work for a change? You know, ways to strengthen and update the NICS, improve education, steer teenagers away from gangs and drug use, have some situational awareness in your own community, all the things that you can do at the local level that do work. Too tough for you? Don't want to spend the time and money at a personal level? Until you actually do more than waste bandwidth complaining about "NRA trolls" you know absolutely nothing about then you aren't part of the solution.

[Starboard Tack]

67. I make suggestions here which are often well received.

None are what you mention. Semi-automatic weapons have no place in this society. Playtime is over. Time to grow up.
Community policing has helped a lot with gang violence. Drug criminalization does lead to violence and the laws are gradually being changed for the good.

[Clames]

68. In fact I did and you just proved it.

Semi-automatic weapons have no place in this society. Playtime is over. Time to grow up.

Fortunately that is only an opinion. Worse for you though is that reality says otherwise and has said so for more than 100 years. Time for you to get with the modern era. That's exactly the type of statements that make true common sense laws impossible to pass.

[gejohnston]

69. The Queen mother is ........

and time for the UK to get into the 21st century and become adults. Monarchs playing mom and dad to the little people have no place in modern society, time to grow up. It is time for Brits to cut the apron strings and become adults.

Of course, that is also an opinion. Not one I actually have, but the goal was to point out that calling us children is culturally offensive as I imagine that to be.

[Clames]

74. Well it's no surprise he equates semi-automatic firearms with "toys".

Anyone with that kind of mentality shouldn't be allowed to own as much as a muzzle loader. I'd make sure their pocket knife has a rounded tip as well.

[Starboard Tack]

97. No, it's time for you and those like you to become responsible citizens.

You think you can fight the government or the zombies. Time for a reality check.

[Clames]

99. I'm very responsible.

No where have I made such claims though I'm sure you have imagined so. Reality is that I will fight for my rights though I do so by emails to intelligent Democrats who support my views. That's reality and you can hide from it all you want...

[Starboard Tack]

100. What kind of limitations on gun ownership do you propose?

Let's see how responsible you really are. And what exactly do you find so funny?

[Clames]

104. I propose very few limitations on ownership, if any for that matter.

Simple fact is ownership is not the issue. Outside of those who have been convicted of violent crimes, have protection orders against them, barred by the Lautenberg Amendment, or adjudicated as being a threat to themselves or others by reason of mental illness I don't believe in restrictions to a Constitutionally protected Right. Any law restricting such a Right must be extremely narrowly tailored and there must be absolutely compelling reason from the government (backed by well documented evidence that proposed laws will produce the intended effect). Broad bans of semi-automatic firearms don't pass that test. Magazine restrictions don't pass that test. One-gun-a-month laws don't pass that test. Basically all the simple-minded laws that have proven to have no impact on violent, criminal use of firearms don't pass that test. Want to make an impact? Focus on the issues that breed violence. No, it's not as easy as wringing your hands and insulting gun owners but it does have a vastly better ROI in the long term.

[Starboard Tack]

108. So you don't support the President on this issue, correct?

You were the one to shoot down my suggestions for securing weapons using biometrics and GPS tracking. That was a suggestion that would allow you to keep you semi-automatics. Many disagree with you about the feasibility.
No hand wringing on my part. I have little interest in guns except that they are fun to shoot. I'm not obsessed with them either way. If it gets to the point where I need to hunt for food, I'll acquire one. Same thing, if I feel the need to protect myself.

[Clames]

109. Wrong. You really have an issue if you can't read what I posted...

.in plain English and see many of those reflected in what the President signed today...:eye: Let's try and keep up shall we? I shot down your ideas because they sucked and lacked technical merit. Those who disagree also lack the level of technical understanding I have when it comes to firearms and integrated electronics. That's a very common problem, technical ignorance. Some are proud of it and they proudly proclaim they know better than others the solutions to complex problems. I'm going to keep my semi-autos because the reality is that nothing is going to put that cat back in the bag. They won't be retrofitted with pie-in-the-sky notions of technology that is decades away from practicality in terms of form factors, reliability, and cost.

[Starboard Tack]

111. Condescending, sanctimonious and claptrap are words that come to mind.

A tad full of ourselves, aren't we? Do you also think the earth is flat?

[Clames]

112. Like you can talk.

Telling gun owners to "grow up"? You hypocrite.

[Starboard Tack]

113. I only tell those who want weapons of war to grow up

I have NO problem with responsible gun ownership.

[gejohnston]

114. they are not "weapons of war"

nice propaganda, but total bullshit. Kind of like every anti gun politician seems to have "a shotgun for duck hunting" BTW, since bolt actions are also "weapons of war" of a different era, is it also irresponsible ownership?
BTW,

"weapon of war" "assault weapon" "gun nut"

Name Calling: Propagandists use this technique to create fear and arouse prejudice by using negative words (bad names) to create an unfavorable opinion or hatred against a group, beliefs, ideas or institutions they would have us denounce. This method calls for a conclusion without examining the evidence. Name Calling is used as a substitute for arguing the merits of an idea, belief, or proposal. It is often employed using sarcasm and ridicule in political cartoons and writing. When confronted with this technique the Institute for Propaganda Analysis suggests we ask ourselves the following questions: What does the name mean? Is there a real connection between the idea and the name being used? What are the merits of the idea if I leave the name out of consideration? When examining this technique try to separate your feelings about the name and the actual idea or proposal (Propaganda Critic: Common Techniques 1)

.

"responsible gun ownership"

Glittering Generalities: Propagandists employ vague, sweeping statements (often slogans or simple catchphrases) using language associated with values and beliefs deeply held by the audience without providing supporting information or reason. They appeal to such notions as honor, glory, love of country, desire for peace, freedom, and family values. The words and phrases are vague and suggest different things to different people but the implication is always favorable. It cannot be proved true or false because it really says little or nothing at all. The Institute of Propaganda Analysis suggests a number of questions we should ask ourselves if we are confronted with this technique: What do the slogans or phrases really mean? Is there a legitimate connection between the idea being discussed and the true meaning of the slogan or phrase being used? What are the merits of the idea itself if it is separated from the slogans or phrases?

http://mason.gmu.edu/~amcdonal/Propaganda%20Techniques.html

[Clames]

115. "Weapons of war" ?

In 15 years of military service so far I have never been issued such a thing as what you call a "weapon of war". Absolutely no credibility to be found with those who use such idiotic terms.

[WinniSkipper]

95. Community Policing like Zimmerman?

Thats what you want?

[Starboard Tack]

98. Bullshit. Zimmerman is a killer.

[darkangel218]

71. What proof do you have that hes an " NRA troll" ??

None, of course.

Aren't we in the Gun Control and RKBA group? Or did you miss the RKBA part!

Woosh.

[Starboard Tack]

78. Read his posts. They speak for themselves.

90+% of his posts are one line snark ridiculing anything which does not support the status quo or further gunproliferation. He is a classic mocker whose interest in guns and gun safety doesn't go beyond himself and his family. He is the classic type of gun troll who comes here only to disrupt and never to contribute to a discussion. I challenge you to find one positive post of his.

He has posted a total of 2 OPs in 12 months, one of which was pointless, in an effort to somehow legitimize himself.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117272560
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117250579

His type of trolling is typical, in that it reinforces the general impression on DU that the gungeon is a cesspool, full of egocentric gun fetishists. I doubt he'll be around much longer. A lot of trash is being removed of late.

[gejohnston]

79. sorry, the last one doesn't count

Your "trash being removed" is "purging diverse opinions" to others. Perhaps some would rather keep our minds open to dealing with the real issues and root causes and not the simplistic "solutions" offered by the corporate elites that we happen to like.

[Starboard Tack]

81. He doesn't have diverse opinions

He's a one liner. There is no conversation, just put downs, snark and mockery. You know me, I'll get down in the dirt with anyone who wants an actual conversation. I welcome diverse opinions regarding problem solving. How do you do that with a guy who doesn't even recognize any of the problems? We all throw jabs occasionally, but most of us make an attempt to keep it civil, find some common ground and see if we can't learn from our exchanges, broaden our perspective.
His only purpose is to stink up the place so that ordinary members will stay away. Quite insidious when you think about it.

[gejohnston]

83. unfortunately,

there are more than enough on the other side of the spectrum, but they are given free pass in more ways than one. IOW, much of the "trash" is not going anywhere. An anti gun person can post something about hoping gun ships mow down gun owners, is allowed to stand. Yet, a video of a police armorer explaining the difference between full and semi auto is hidden. In fact, I fully expected to see this OP deleted by a jury.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=103055

[Starboard Tack]

85. I disagree

This guy isn't even in the spectrum, never actually says anything constructive. He isn't outrageous, that's not his style. He's a burrowing troll, building a post count without offending too many people. The pro-gunners don't even notice him, because he's just a back slapper in the echo chamber, never making any comment that might disagree with the pro-everything-gun POV.
I don't know who you are referring to on "the other side", whatever that means. Maybe a link?

Nothing wrong with your OP, BTW. I think it's good to clarify the AWB nonsense.

[gejohnston]

86. I didn't see anything wrong with the you tube video

by the police armorer. He worked for a city in California, can't remember which one. If you look, you would notice who they are. A couple are no longer here, but I'm not going to list them, other than the one who excuses cops machine gunning children in the back. I understand he mostly hangs out in Meta these days.
I have been accused of "no restrictions, repeal NFA, etc" but I outlined what I would do. Some would be stricter some would be laxer. I'm interested in dealing with all violence rather than culture warrior nonsense. Mass murder is a mental health problem where "suicide by cop" was the goal.

[Starboard Tack]

87. "Mass murder is a mental health problem"

Sometimes it is. Maybe most rational people would consider any kind of murder a mental health problem. But placing all the blame on a broken healthcare system is disingenuous at best. Sane or insane, any individual has easy access to virtually every kind of firearm. All it takes is money. That is a problem. The fact that all guns may have originally been owned by law abiding citizens means nothing in a society where individuals lose, steal and traffic privately in guns.

[gejohnston]

88. look at it this way

they had mental health issues
many of them were taking psychotropic drugs
they were also gamers, but I'm not into banning video games

I'm not really into beat poetry, but I'm with William S. Burroughs on this one

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.

[ileus]

45. Ya'll really need to learn to stop being afraid.

I'm not in fear when my kids enter their classroom.

I'm not in fear when I go to work.

I'm not in fear when I go to the movies.

I'm not in fear when I go to the mall.

I'm not in fear when I walk or drive on the streets.


I do agree it's time to take our country back from the fear mongers. Don't let them take our civil rights away...




Carry on and be safe.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

46. Your fear is irrational (crime is at statistical lows)... but fear not, you are not alone!

As you can see many other people in addition to yourself also erroneously feel unsafe about crime in the United States. But the second graph demonstrably shows a clear downward trend in violent crime. You are safer now that at any point in quite some time. But fear not, I do not advocate in the restriction of rights... therefore, I agree with you having the right to FEEL scared should you choose to do so (however erroneously your fears may be founded).

[jimmy the one]

56. discrepancy in graph

Something from your linked graph of violent crime, US justice dept stats, 1973 to 2010, doesn't jive with other figures from disaster center dot com which also reports violent crime & rates.

The graph, from gallup website evidently, shows for 1973, 47.7 violent crimes per 1,000 people over 12 yrs old.
That would be a national rate of 4,770 violent crimes per 100,000, a pretty high rate.

disctr.. pop ... totalcr rate ... violcr rate .. propcr rate... murderrate

1973.. 209,851,000.. 4,154.4 ..... 417.4......... 3,737.0.......... 9.4

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Since the 'total crime rate' from disaster center dot com is in the range of the graphs stat for 1973, 4,154 vs 4,770, I'm inclined to think the graph is measuring total crime rate, including property crime, rather than just violent crime rate as it says.
Unless it's the NCVS, national crime victimization survey rather than UCR, the former which measures unreported crime as well as reported crime. But that seems pretty high variant from UCR.

Or am I missing something simple?

[jpak]

58. Cherry pickin' gun nuttery

yup

[gejohnston]

60. those count suicide by gun

but only by gun. Switzerland has a high suicide rate, often by gun, but their murder rate is almost nil. That is why they have the higher gun death rate. Canada has fewer guns than Finland and Switzerland but more gun deaths. According this, our gun death regardless of reason is less than half of Japan's suicide rate and one third of South Korea's.

[holdencaufield]

47. I don't fear ANY of those things ...

... I carry

[bucky balls]

48. You should contact the Boy Scouts of America and have them change the motto to

"Be Afraid"

[jpak]

59. But they are already afeared - of Teh Gay

yup

[bucky balls]

91. Back when I was a scout, it wasn't an issue, and they taught me to shoot.

And they haven't asked me to return any merit badges.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

61. Fear:

"The time to take counsel of your fears is before you make an important battle decision. That's the time to listen to every fear you can imagine! When you have collected all the facts and fears and made your decision, turn off all your fears and go ahead!" - George S. Patton

[flamingdem]

70. I'm envious of the English, they live with far less fear of gun violence n/t

[darkangel218]

72. But alot of fear of getting stabbed, punched, mugged and raped in plain daylight.

I've lived in UK so I know how violent is over there.

[flamingdem]

89. I didn't know it was bad, what area would this be?

I'm guessing it's like NYC or Miami if you live in the hood.

[darkangel218]

90. I was in North Wales, in Wrexham.

And yes it was that bad. Normally in the night time, wouldn't dare stepping out in the town on your own.
I love UK, but the physical violence is way higher than here.

[libdem4life]

76. Only a small paranoid percentage...and they haven't taken over our country.

Really, you give them powers they do not posses. If we allow them to have "reasonable" weapons to protect themselves and their families, and also "reasonable" weapons to hunt, they'll be OK. It's the ones that imagine themselves as mini-Terminators protecting themselves, their families, neighbors and the globe from avenging galactical warlords or a government that represents that same, terrestrial fictional scenario that we need to address our attentions.

The former are the harmless gun nuts who will never harm a soul other than an intruder, a near infinite potentiality, and the latter the wackos that would shoot their own by mistake, or leave the weapon loose and loaded for rapid response to a bump in the night while maintaining the defense of the galaxy.

The freedom must be contained by significant responsibility and accountability...that we can do. Assuaging people's deep-seated fears we cannot address...just their access to weapons and the and legal and accompanying financial liability. In my own experience, I find that the more expensive a "cure" becomes, the less paranoid and reactive the human host becomes. Translated, the more expensive it is to purchase, tax, register, load with ammo, background check, re-register and insure based on ability to mass kill, the less necessary it will be to assuage the average people's sanity.

Still, if our Chicken in Every Pot has evolved into a Handgun or WMD in every Home and School and Workplace and Mall and Bus and Train station, the public/taxpayer will still be responsible for the social cost...one way or the other.

On the other hand, perhaps if we could re-consider it a reverse employment plan as a return on our initial cost of training and employing our valuable young people as soldiers to nation build and pound sand and protect oil pipelines and wells in the ME desert. At the very least, a rational plan to support the veterans who survived and returned... a plan the Republicans would be loathe to deny it. Oh, right, they already did that.

In any case, in a logical scenario, what could be the harm? I would rather have a local Vet at my grandchild's school earning a living and getting to know the kids and be their friend and share their lunch time and their lives as opposed to sitting at home, getting turned down for jobs due to whatever, bored, watching television and drinking beer for roughly the same amount of taxpayer money.

We just need to apply critical thinking skills ... outlawed, in irony, by the Texas Board of Education.

[raidert05]

80. I dig that idea

You best believe if most would throw themselves on a grenade for there buddies in combat, they would draw fire and try and kill a mad man with a gun to protect innocent children.

[libdem4life]

82. Absolutely. I believe just their presence and the obvious commitment of the society, regardless

of the politics of guns, for their youngest citizens would be a huge deterrent...for the very reason you clearly stated. That addresses the would-be infantile Rambos...who are primarily scared and somehow scarred little kids who never grew up.

Having been an elementary school teacher, I can tell you that a local hero (vet) walking around the school and hanging out on a daily basis, would be a huge hit for the kids. It's not like they don't watch television and are aware of societal dangers. They don't give a flip, however, about the political implications. Field trips to or visits from the local Fire Department and Police Department and the National Guard were some of the most memorable for the little ones. The "thank you for being there for us" pictures and thoughts were priceless.

(And it doesn't cost the taxpayer much more, if any, money than unemployment or jobs training or disability employment for the vets, while being one heck of a lot safer and more enjoyable than employment in the Afghan or Iraqi desert. A win-win-win, IMHO)

[MrSlayer]

77. What nonsense.

Maybe you walk around in fear all the time but I don't. I don't even give this gun bullshit a second thought except when I'm on here reading about it. The fear on both sides of this issue is kind of embarrassing. No one from the government is going to turn into Hitler and no one is going to shoot you at the local Safeway. Get a grip.

[libdem4life]

84. True, but growing up does not always expunge the Boogey Men from under the bed. And

that appropriate childhood fear persisting inappropriately into adulthood, translates into the fear that is irrational and empowers political persuasion and movements, and ends up fearing anyone "not like us"...thus, wars of Empire. Childhood fears all grown up and projected onto "them".

[holdencaufield]

93. Well, maybe not at Whole Foods ...

... but Safeway?

[samsingh]

92. kick

[guardian]

94. you forgot

fear of your shadow

[Tuesday Afternoon]

101. take another shot of courage.

[liberal N proud]

102. I usually do not respond to gun nut forum posts for obvious reasons, BUT...

This warented a rec and comment to agree!

[Remmah2]

107. We're not Rwanda, Cambodia, Nepal, China or North Korea.

We've never been Europe or Russia circa 1939-1946.

We're not the Congo, we're not Cuba, we're not Argentina, Mexico, or Columbia.

I don't fear any of the things on your list, talk about fear mongering.
PS: I don't tote either.

[Francis Marion]

117. Freedom is not scary- it is The People's treasure.

Fear when we enter a classroom.
(...no, I study)

Fear when we go to work.
(I'm afraid of nothing at work.)

Fear when we go to the movies.
(Don't watch scary movies.)

Fear when we go the mall.
(No agoraphobia either.)

Fear when we walk or drive the streets.
(Drunk drivers kill people all the time. Better ban alcohol. Again.)

The only thing that does scare me is the prospect that modern Americans are unsuited for Freedom.