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truth2power

(8,219 posts)
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 09:28 PM Nov 2014

Alert! For anyone thinking of adopting from a rescue organization. Please read...

Beware of the contract you are asked to sign!

I was going to adopt a dog this past weekend, but the deal fell through because I was impertinent enough to dispute some of the terms of agreement. I actually had an anxiety attack today when I realized what I might have gotten myself into. Here are the terms I disputed:

1. "Do you agree that the animal will not be allowed outdoors without proper supervision?" I was told that I could not even allow my dog to be in my fenced-in back yard unless I was, at all times, in the immediate vicinity to provide supervision.

2. I was told that my dog was to be "kept indoors except for periods of exercise in a fenced-in area or on a leash." Periods of exercise? Note: the dog I was considering adopting was a shepherd/lab mix, a large dog that needs to have more than "periods" of exercise outdoors.

But that's not the worst of it! Beware of this phrase, "...the adopter hereby accepts possession, legal guardianship and responsibility for the animal referenced in this contract..."

My research disclosed that there is legislation that has been or is being pushed to change the term 'pet owner' with the term 'guardian'.

If you are the guardian you are not the owner of the pet. You are only the caretaker. In the contract I have noted above, the rescue organization has a claim on your pet, as long as the animal lives. They can prevent you from freely choosing what you feel is the most appropriate medication, treatment or lifestyle for your pet.


Please see this link for more on the subject:

https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/StateAndLocal/Pages/owner-guardian-ahi.aspx

Please....pay attention to what you are signing.

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Alert! For anyone thinking of adopting from a rescue organization. Please read... (Original Post) truth2power Nov 2014 OP
I ran into one of those contracts when I was looking to adopt too Curmudgeoness Nov 2014 #1
I've done home checks for years. People say they have a fence, they have none. People say jtuck004 Nov 2014 #4
I do understand the reasons for some of the requirements. Curmudgeoness Nov 2014 #5
Curmudgeoness - Please do not take this personally but truth2power Nov 2014 #8
I saw that thread. Curmudgeoness Nov 2014 #9
The idea is that objectification lowers a beings worth. Just possessions, something jtuck004 Nov 2014 #10
You make some valid points, but Curmudgeoness Nov 2014 #11
Did you refuse to buy your house because they could take it back? Your car? But when it jtuck004 Nov 2014 #13
Thanks for posting this...n/t PasadenaTrudy Nov 2014 #2
Every dog I ended up with adopted me. hobbit709 Nov 2014 #3
You are lucky. Curmudgeoness Nov 2014 #12
I know of a family who took their female chihuahua several times to be mated marzipanni Nov 2014 #6
thanks good info helpmetohelpyou Nov 2014 #7

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
1. I ran into one of those contracts when I was looking to adopt too
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 10:10 PM
Nov 2014

and I also walked away from it. The only stipulation that I had to make in the adoption papers was that if I didn't want the animal, that I had to return it to that rescue group. That seemed reasonable to me. I also had to give a vet reference, which was not a problem for me, since I have had pets for years, but I saw that as a problem for someone who has not had a pet in a while or this is their first pet. Before adoption, many of the groups wanted to do a home check at my house, and I also didn't like that idea even though I would see no reason for a problem. The one group that had too many stipulations also had a three page contract....and that was too much legalese for me.

I do understand the need for rescue groups to be careful who they adopt to, and how they will be cared for, but some of these contracts are going too far.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
4. I've done home checks for years. People say they have a fence, they have none. People say
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 02:41 AM
Nov 2014

they have thought about it, then I walk in on their brilliant white carpet and ask what they think of a rescue dog waking them up the first morning with a big steamy turd in the middle of the floor. They said they hadn't considered it, but realized they needed a crate.

The dogs and cats and whatever in rescue are there because the previous owner could not, or did not, take care of them.

The shelters are bad enough - we could do things differently and most do away with them, but Americans like killing. A lot of these animals get returned to the rescue. The rescue is trying to keep that from happening. Again. And again.

I have one that was returned twice, so I was about the 4th owner, promised him I would be the last.

If others have a solution to the 4 million being killed every year, would love to hear it. Otherwise, there are all sorts of reasons not to take on one of these, and most of the time when we find someone that doesn't want to consider the contract we think the animal is a lot better off having not gone with them.

I do understand how one might find the contract onerous. But it isn't about them, it's about making sure the animal is safe.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
5. I do understand the reasons for some of the requirements.
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 01:06 PM
Nov 2014

I know that some people will not do the right things by the animals that they adopt. I do think that someone who has had animals in the past know what they are getting into, and probably a vet referral would be enough to know whether that person is a responsible owner. My vet knows that I have done all that I can for all of my animals, and that they were always well cared for and were taken to the vet as soon as there was a problem as well as for annual checkups. That should be enough.

I guess that there are things that I do not agree with in many cases. Like a fenced yard. I do not believe that it is necessary to have if you own a dog and I know many people who are great pet parents who do not have a fenced yard. Some love to walk with their dogs, or run with them. You can have a line for them to be attached to that allows them to run out to do their business. Fencing is expensive and not necessary.

In my case, and I am sure in many other cases, I think that the animals are not better off to have not been adopted because of some of these contracts. Do you think that the contracts referenced in the OP that do not consider the animals to be adopted, but instead call the new parents "caregivers" and reserve their ownership of the animals going too far?

truth2power

(8,219 posts)
8. Curmudgeoness - Please do not take this personally but
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 09:58 PM
Nov 2014

I am ready to pull my hair out by the roots!!!!!!!

You seem like a reasonable person. Please tell me how I can get across what I am trying to say. I cross-posted this in GD, here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025831673

There are 34 responses (well, some of them are mine) and virtually no one seems able to focus or to comprehend what they are reading. People are posting about fences and trees and safety and posting links to pictures of horribly abused dogs, and talking about small dogs and tall dogs and homeless children (I swear) and how dogs are not a piece of furniture and how it's about weeding out bad owners (which has zero to do with the fucking contract) and some are saying that if I have a problem with a contract then I'm not fit to adopt. And on and on and on.................................. Shit!

What is wrong with DUers that they can't read and stay on track???

Here is the issue...The Contract of this RESCUE ORGANIZATION SAYS THAT I AM NOT PERMITTED TO LEAVE MY DOG IN MY OWN FENCED YARD, LET'S SAY, ALL DAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER WHEN THE WEATHER IS TEMPERATE, IF I CHOOSE. MY DOG MUST STAY IN THE HOUSE UNLESS HE NEEDS TO GO OUT FOR A PERIOD OF EXERCISE.

IF MY DOG IS FOUND IN THE YARD AND I AM NOT IN THE VICINITY THEY CAN SEIZE THE ANIMAL BECAUSE I DON'T OWN THE GODDAMN DOG!! Let me say that again...I DON'T OWN THE GODDAMN DOG!

Saying that they would not likely do that IS NOT AN ANSWER!!!! They COULD do that. I got into an argument with the adoption coordinator over this. These people are bat. shit. crazy.

Why can't DUers just F.O.C.U.S.?

This has nothing to do with keeping dogs safe. It has nothing to do with GUARDIAN as used in the romantic sense. It's not like "Guardians of the Galaxy". That's a movie!!!. This is about a LEGAL TERM and DUers seem not to be able to distinguish between the two and address their comments accordingly. Is that asking too much??.

I am trying to make a point about a shitty contract and the serious problems it's likely to cause.

Just to let you know...I did not adopt the dog. I am trying to make a simple. point. about. a shitty. fucking. contract. !~!!!

Gawd! I think I'm losing my mind. I'm going to bed.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
9. I saw that thread.
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 11:15 PM
Nov 2014

In fact, I backed out of it because it really was bat-shit crazy. At least some of it was. My personal opinion is that you leave that thread to the people who have hijacked it. You know that there are some really extreme opinions here on DU, and you have stirred up some of them. In my experience, it is best to walk away from it.

I understand what your problems with that contract are, and I agree with you. I would not adopt under those conditions either. My baby, who is telling me right now that it is bed time, came from a rescue that was much less restrictive. I refused to sign some of the contracts that I saw.

A good way to find out what the contract is before you find an animal that you would fall in love with is to go to petfinders.com because the contracts are usually posted there as well as info on animals that they have. That is how I decided which group I would be willing to deal with. I am sorry you are having so much problem. Don't take it too seriously.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
10. The idea is that objectification lowers a beings worth. Just possessions, something
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 09:05 AM
Nov 2014

you own, like we used to own people or we now own Toyotas. Women have been objectified for years, and the damage done to them is incalculable. Pets are objectified and we kill 4-6 million every year and seem to think it's just a normal way of doing business.

One is easily seen, the other seems to be a matter of opinion among some.

My opinion - yes, I think language makes a difference, and beings I think are valuable aren't objects. We don't call women "girls" and I don't think we should think of pets like we do the blender we just got at Walmart. Been around this for awhile. It's simply a fact that people equate pets, and children, and...(sorry, I digress) to nothing but "things they have". And when it's time to move one, we live in a culture where we discard "things" to make that possible. The animal "shelters" - many nothing more than mass production applied to animal killing, a lot of it not nearly as painless as people might think - stands as a packed full testament to those failures. I think the idea that animals are "less than" and can be "owned" rather than cared for goes a long way back through our culture of disrespect toward others, and is a mistake we need to rectify to be called human.

I like the idea of calling pet owners guardians. It gets people to thinking about their role, as well as taking care of the animal, not just throwing them in the backyard and wondering where they are the next time they open the door. Amazing how much that happens.

Let me suggest a thought experiment. Say you are one of these on this board who write those loving testimonials to their friends, their pets. Think of what it would be like, in a big city, alone except for two dogs that have been your companions for 10 years. Through abuse by a spouse, a job that cheated you, a car wreck which dropped you into poverty for the past couple years, and how you have to go to a facility and get rid of your friends.

Those two pairs of eyes are literally the only friendly ones you have seen in as long as you can remember.

You know no one, and you can't travel. You have to either drop them off at the shelter where they will be killed, (that's what happens to old dogs) or find someone and come up with some kind of agreement, administered by a trusted person, that will safeguard your dogs to some extent.

Now multiply that problem by a few million pets. Every year. Are you handing them to a loving family, or two adults and a kid operating as a front that are going to sell them to a research facility, or use them in dog fighting? You can't tell who those folks are by talking or asking questions. Does the person have 31 dogs at home already? Saw one of those.

What do you do? Easy to take shots at it all, like people do politicians, but most have no real answers. So the rescues do the best they can, and other people offer complaints and little else, except for when they need to surrender their dog and insist that you take them, even if you are over full and have no budget, because they can't stand to take them to the shelter to be killed. It's a lot like teabaggers complaining about the government while picking up their social security check.

It's a lot different from the inside of a place that is trying to fight against all the forces arrayed against pets, especially dogs and cats. Kind of a losing battle, since a lot of that stems from a basic lack of respect for each other in our culture, and folks treat their animals like they have been treated.










Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
11. You make some valid points, but
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 04:33 PM
Nov 2014

I would prefer the wording of "adopting parent" to "guardian". But the problem isn't just the words, it is the contract that says that they can take the animal, that to me is just like a child, because I did not do everything that they required. And some of the requirements are unnecessary.

I see adopting a rescue animal as an "adoption". Even children who are adopted are not subject to the same contract that is referenced in the OP. Yes, child protective services can take a child to protect them when it is necessary. And we have humane societies for animals that can do the same thing in cases of neglect or abuse. Same thing in my mind. When I have adopted an animal, that animal is now family to me. I have never been in the situation where I have to choose to get rid of the pets or have no place to live, but I believe that I would choose to live in the street with the pet then to give them up.

I am sorry that we will not agree on the requirements of adopting a pet. When they are stricter than required to adopt a child, the people in the rescue organizations have overstepped.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
13. Did you refuse to buy your house because they could take it back? Your car? But when it
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 05:55 PM
Nov 2014

comes to "just a dog" then people start coming up with excuses.

we have humane societies for animals < The largest ones do far more for their own pocketbooks than they do for animals.

We don't have places. We kill 4 to 6 million a year. Pay attention.

We don't agree because your facts aren't.

Feel free to run down to the shelter and and wait for the woman to show up with her two "apricot" poodles, "rescued", then surrendered a couple years later because they redecorated and the dogs don't fit in with the new look. Story after story, just as valid.

Think of how many dogs and cats are thrashing around in the death chambers right now so we can get to our 4 million dead this year? At "shelter" after "shelter" there is no place for the pets to go, you are going to get 50 more that day, and there is a whole row waiting to die. Better get busy. Oh, and if you are in that little town in Texas, you will be drowning them in the well.

Experience is a great thing. Imagine a teacher being told by a high school kid how to do her job, and the kid is qualified because he spent the last 12 years in a school, eh? He must know. Some pet folks are the same way, they refuse to see the misery and tragedy behind their behavior, but because they "owned" one - would have made great Plantation owners, I suspect - they are sure they know all about it.

I understand the lack of respect with which Americans treat each other and the world, and I have seen that where this is addressed animals fare far better. The tough part is that having seen it I have a lot less patience for people and people and their self-serving excuses for not wanting to take care of defenseless animals. Kinda like science-denying teabaggers, except the teabaggers pick on opponents that are the same size they are. They aren't cowards picking on beings that are smaller and just want to be a companion.

I'm not sorry that we don't agree at all. I find such ideas abhorrent and would be ashamed to have them. But you are entitled to your opinion. The animals need someone on their side, and really don't need people who are so full of themselves they can't think of the welfare of an animal. Such people are pretty easy to spot, makes it easy to walk away, which is one more protection I can offer the dogs.

So...bye.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
12. You are lucky.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 04:38 PM
Nov 2014

My first two cats showed up at the plant I was working at, and I adopted them. My second two cats were in need of a home because of a divorce and sale of the house they lived in. So this last cat was my first adoption at a rescue organization, and it was an eye opener from the contract side with some of them.

Oddly enough, the only cat that I adopted with any major health problems was the one I got from a rescue group, but that is another story.

marzipanni

(6,011 posts)
6. I know of a family who took their female chihuahua several times to be mated
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 04:03 PM
Nov 2014

with a chihuahua their friend owned. The family has 6 kids and this was a income source, with litters of 2 or 3 pups, selling them for at least $200.00. Need extra cash? Breed the dog.

I joined a couple of Facebook pages for my area where people who join the group help people find lost pets, and find the owners of found pets.
Typical post:
"This intact male dog showed up on my porch this morning *photo inserted here* Does anyone know who he belongs to? We're taking him to the vet for a free microchip scan and emailing its photo and info to animal services, and www. PetHarbor.com. We can keep him until we find his owner \or\ We have to take it to animal services (the pound) unless someone else can foster for thirty days to allow time for owner to claim"

If you are on Facebook, put the name of your town, city, or county along with the words "lost and found" in the Find friends space and you might find that someone in your locale has started a similar page.

It seems that the majority of lost then found (or perhaps abandoned) dogs in this area of northern California are chihuahuas and pit bulls.

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