Is it possible to make bad lasagna? or is there no such thing as bad lasagna?

[GreatGazoo]

I'm not a fan of the bechamel versions, too liquidy and too much work.

I also think that ricotta cheese is a must but as I look at recipes and YouTube I see all different versions. On YouTube, lots of people don't pour off the grease after cooking the meat(s), many add onions (?) and many seem to do thing just because they think their grandma did it that way such as one who insists that you reduce the tomato sauce for "3 hours on low with the lid half on" (because grandma did), not 10 minutes on med high while stirring but 3 hours...

Not saying I wouldn't eat every version I saw.

[Trajan]

1. My family and friends are familiar with the 'Pizza Rule'

There is VERY VERY good pizza ...

There is VERY good pizza ...

There is GOOD pizza ...

There is pizza ...

Rarely, oh so rarely, you actually come across 'bad' pizza ... It's so rare it hardly counts ...

Bread .. Cheese .. Sauce ... What can go wrong?

It's hard to fuck it up ...

[GreatGazoo]

2. I saw "pizza" in England that was

English muffin, ketchup and white cheese... ugh.

[Trajan]

5. Sounds like the concoction of a six year old kid

Yeah ... That kind of crap is out there, but I've never come across it ...

Being born in North New Jersey, my half Italian mother would take us to local Italian bakeries, which also served pizza, calzones and submarine sandwiches ... I learned early on - don't buy corporate pizza ... Almost ALWAYS better to order from an independently owned shop.

Do, during the course of my life, I have always sought out the tiny pizza shops stuck deep in the old town, or a dusty corner of a strip mall ..

Some hallmarks of a (possibly) good pizza shop?

1) The presence of an Italian flag, or just the colors

2) A portrait of the pope

3) Right next to the pope portrait - a portrait of John F. Kennedy (First Catholic POTUS)

Yep ... Find those things, and you will be ready to eat ...

[GreatGazoo]

7. I grew up in a small town that seemed to be 50% Italian

There were fist fights in grade school over which parlor made the best pizza. The winner was (or should have been Pontillos).

The women who ran the grade school cafeteria were Italian Americans so the pretty much the whole week went: Mini Sub * Pizza * Spaghetti and Meatball (just one big one) * Meatloaf (American style but with tomato sauce) * then for Friday: Fish.

The smell that comes out of a pizza parlor... the simmering sauce with garlic, dough in the oven, olive oil. Could there be anything better?

[csziggy]

9. When we were kids we made "pizza" with bread, catsup and Kraft parmesan

It was horrible, but it was all we had sometimes. Mom was working and we had to scrounge for ourselves. Peanut butter and jelly got really boring, as did bologna so we improvised. If we were lucky there were some anchovies to spice up the "pizza" though I would just as likely eat the anchovies straight out the can as put them on the fake pizzas. Sometimes all we had to add to them was anchovy paste. Vile stuff.

[rusty quoin]

11. LOL. I can't believe it.

[Tab]

17. I had "pizza" while trekking in Nepal

The only relationship to pizza was that it was on a flat round piece of bread.

Still very welcome!

[randr]

3. Made the best lasagna ever just last night

Because sometimes you just gotta have lasagna.
<a href=".html" target="_blank"><img src="" border="0" alt="lasagna photo 2016-02-03 18.56.19_zpseorn3wg5.jpg"/></a>

[GreatGazoo]

4. Nice!

Do you like everything in each layer or some layers meat and some cheese?

Another schism in the lasagna world is whether the cheese or the meat sauce goes on top of the pasta layers. Some say: pasta, meat, sauce, cheese, but more seemed to be pasta then cheese then meat sauce (and then some put mozz over that).

[randr]

6. I start with a thin layer of meat/sauce on bottom

then sauce/ricotta/mozzarella between each pasta layer; finally topped with sauce and parm/romano.
Pasta pre-cooked al dente helps to absorb excess liquid. Trick is to time cooking so liquid is absorbed just as top is browned. Cooked this with foil top until I could see boiling start in pan, then removed foil, set to broil, and gave it 10 more minutes at 450.
Too many times I have over or under cooked ending up with a runny mess or a rubbery cheese.

[DawgHouse]

20. This looks delicious! Love that pretty brown top.

[Auggie]

8. If you used whole wheat pasta, RAGU and fake cheese, sure

[Tab]

10. I really dislike ricotta cheese

That aside, I've never met a ricotta-free lasagna I didn't like (given that the pasta itself wasn't undercooked).

Personally, I like the corners with the burnt cheese (not ricotta).

[rusty quoin]

12. If I'm not mistaken, I use to made a lasagna recipe with chicken and spinach, using cottage cheese.

It came from a Betty Crocker cookbook that was all about chicken. While typing this, it sounds so wrong, but my family liked it very much. I need to find that old book to see whether or not I'm right about the cottage cheese.

[Tab]

14. That. Just. Sounds. Wrong.

I don't doubt it was in a Betty Crocker cookbook, but that wouldn't make it right.

[Retrograde]

13. Many American restaurants make (IMHO) bad to mediocre lasagna

They overdo the cheese: what could be a tasty layering of noodles, some cheese, meat sauce, vegetables if you like is often ruined by piling on globs of cheap mozzarella until the dish is more cheese than anything else.

I use ricotta, often mixed with spinach and some grated lemon zest. The best I've had had a bolognese sauce (well, it was in Bologna), but I'm not usually patient enough for that.

[SheilaT]

15. Oh, yes, I'm sad to say.

My late mother once made lasagna for me that was just terrible. The noodles were crunchy. I don't think she bothered to boil them first. Somewhat in her defense, she wasn't Italian, and to top it off, she was never a good cook. I don't think she liked cooking at all, and had six kids and was of the generation when women were expected to do everything and be a good cook besides. Poor mom. Thanks to her incompetence in that area I started cooking for the family by the time I was 10. I wasn't very good myself for quite a long time, because I learned from her initially. But I've improved a lot.

Although I still haven't mastered a decent lasagna, alas.

[GreatGazoo]

16. My mother was convinced that my childhood would not be complete without brussel sprouts.

I have since had some that I loved (browned in pancetta, balsamic and salt) but I struggled with hers. I know "food is love" but that was a test.

I have looked at even more lasagna stuff since this thread started. And I have made lasagna about 3 times. I use a glass loaf pan so it holds maybe 1/3 of what the bigger pan would and that makes it easy to do different versions and try things. Barilla's no-boil sheets fit perfectly.

Epicurious says the no-boil ("oven ready&quot pasta did better than boil first versions and that it great news to me because the boiling adds about 30 mins to the whole thing. My fastest version is just italian sausage, crushed tomatoes, garlic, no boil pasta, ricotta and some mozzarella. I pre cook the sausage but then it just gets assembled and cooks for about 25 mins at 400F. Not my best version but quick and the flavors are clean.

I liked their collection of things that they thought made a big difference:
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes-menus/the-five-secrets-to-building-the-ultimate-lasagna-article

[Tab]

18. I don't even want to talk about brussel sprouts

I'm one of those people highly attuned to bitter tastes, and can't stand brussel sprouts or anything like that.

[MrMickeysMom]

19. The latest person to love my lasagne is my grandson, can't make it any other way...

2 lb total of ground meat (1.5 ground chuck, balance pork unless you want to add .25 of veal)
Lg or jumbo sized egg
3T graded cheese (Romano)
Fresh flat leaf parsley (3/4 cup)
2 t dried oregano, little less basil
1 - 2 t Salt
At least 1 cup Italian breadcrumbs That should be proportional to same amount of water

Mix this for meatballs handle with kitchen gloves. Get you tomato sauce going. I make my sauce out of 8 oz Tom paste diluted with equal water to 2 large cans crushed tomatoes. I start sauce by dropping almost an entire minced garlic bulb into olive oil but just soft, no burning of garlic. I add about a half cup of red wine. Cook off for few mins before adding tomato stuff. Let that get to boil and drop the meatballs right into it cooking at least 8 min. Test that meat ball so you get the idea as to how long to cook them. Keep taking meatballs out of sauce to reserve them. Cooling the meatballs to add to assembly of other ingredients.

Other ingredients to assemble-

Small carton of ricotta cheese
Grated Parmesan cheese
Mozzarella (lg packet)
Two boxes of either cooked noodles or no bake (it's a pain, but I use al dente cooked.

Layer sauce first, noodles, crumbled meatballs and cheeses as to cover length of noodle area.
Build layers until you reach top layer that has sauce and sprinkled parm cheese. Bake at 350 for 30 min. Most of baking is covered with foil and you could take it off to crisp last 10 min.

[Grey]

21. Is it possible to make good lasagna?

I have tried a dozen different versions of lasagna and don't like any of them.
What qualifies as good? Most I have come across are close to uneatable.

[GreatGazoo]

22. what do you find to be wrong with most of them?

Good lasagna = a stack of layers that are tender overall but that you still use a steak knife to cut through, the meat should be spiced enough to have presence, like Italian sausage or meatballs, tomato sauce adds a bit of bright acidity, some garlic (possibly roasted but definitely not raw) and the pasta should not be overcooked to where it is thick and watery.

Great lasagna = all of the above plus the bite of some hard cheese like romano or parm, a top layer that is beautifully blistered like a toasted marshmellow, garlic that is pressed to a paste and nicely incorporated into the tomato sauce and the overall water content should be such that the stack doesn't fall apart when you lift it out of the pan and plate it.

Deductions (IMHO) for: raw garlic, burnt garlic, too sugary sweet, bland sauce or meat(s), top layer over crisp or burnt

[Grey]

23. On the whole, they were ok.

Everyone else seemed to think they were great. Some were home cooked, some were served in cafes. They were all put together in the way you describe but all lacked great taste. Nothing "wrong" with any of them. I have come to believe I just don't like lasagna. No one thing stands out as a reason.

[spinbaby]

24. I only make skillet lasagna

Ever since I learned how, I don't make it any other way. It's easier and it makes just enough for two people without the giant pan of leftovers created by regular lasagna.

[GreatGazoo]

25. I have done that too, much faster and pretty much the same flavor profile.

Now I make lasagna in a pyrex loaf pan. The no-boil noodles fit perfectly and you get about 3 servings.

[Glassunion]

26. I'm just going to leave this here and let myself out.