I asked Skinner this.

[Neoma]

It's up to y'all.

I'm not sure if you remember this...

But there was a thread in meta supporting the idea to have a mental health information group, instead of simply a support group. Because mental health issues are so misunderstood by people, and we're sick of ableism. There just needs to be a place to put studies and mental health news...It simply doesn't fit into a support group. There were definitely more than 10 people supporting it, but I forgot who made the thread. (HereSince1628 or Fire Walk With Me maybe?)

So I guess my question is when that'll happen.

Reply from Skinner:

1. Could we just change the name of the "Mental Health Support" group
to "Mental Health"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1259200

1 vote, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
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	0 (0%)
	No.
	1 (100%)
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[BainsBane]

1. No because he is seeking to combine the groups

The proposed group, as I understand it, is meant to provide information to the entire DU community. I don't think we want the broader DU community in the support group.

[Neoma]

2. Well, whoever started that thread in meta should come around and claim ground.

Otherwise I can do it until that person comes around. It's a much needed group and we've waited a few months already...

Edit: unless someone better qualified than me wants it.

[libodem]

3. I do think it was Heresince

I have not seen too many of her posts around lately. I would go read and comment. As you know I'm a poor contributor of articles. I don't cut and paste very well.

I'm still a little scared of the internet.

Signed,

Big ol' technophobe.

[Neoma]

4. Can't comment in Ask the admins.

Not my rulebook, sorry.

[libodem]

7. I suppose the one customer at the counter

Keeps the dog pile at a minimum. My impulse control became disinhibited and my SnarkyMalarky alterego was occasionally unleashed. I couldn't be good. And I know better.

[Neoma]

9. I try not to fight.

I'm like the dinosaur in Toy Story. "I don't like confrontation!"

[libodem]

11. Me either

I lack debate skills, have thin skin, and don't want people not to like me. Yet, I can't stand being told what I can and can not think or say, so I had to SnarkyMalarky off, now and then. Oops. It really is immature and I had occasional regrets about being an ahole. I live with it, I suppose.

[Neoma]

12. I don't lack debate skills...

But if it goes too far, I become an obsessed bundle of nerves. I used to have to drink green tea to calm down because I literately started shaking... I just only have thick skin only to a point.

I'm like a Vulcan... I hope you know Star Trek enough to get that comment.

[BainsBane]

6. by he I meant Skinner

I do believe the person who requested the group was Heresince1868. He/she posted about it yesterday in this forum.

[Neoma]

10. I'll Du Mail Heresince1868 then.

[BainsBane]

13. see this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11513342

[fizzgig]

5. maybe message heresince and fwwm

i am pretty sure it was one of those two who made the suggestion.

as far as changing the name/purpose of the group, i initially voted no but am thinking about it a bit more. a combined group might be like the lgbt group - both a support group/safe haven and a place to share news and information.

at this point, i don't know that i'd really care one way or the other, i'll let people with stronger feelings make the decision and i'll support it.

[Neoma]

8. Well yes, the information group would need some safe rules.

Like don't hit and run with the word 'crazy' and leave...

But think about it I guess, people without any prior history would start posting here. This would become a mental health activist group, a support group, and news group to the entire DU community.

I think the question is, did we learn much from the newtown crap? Because they could be here too. And how could we control that?

[fizzgig]

15. we'll need more hosts in either situation

and not hesitate to drop the block hammer on abelist assholes.

i've been going back and forth on this in my mind all day. this is our safe have and we don't need more newtown-like shit dropping into our laps when something like that happens again. but part of me feels like if we had some more traffic, more people might find the help or support they need here.

that said, i certainly see the intrusiveness of opening this group, and that still gives me pause.

[Neoma]

17. Go back to that thread I made and see convo.

[fizzgig]

18. i saw that

i hope this is something that we can get done. i thought heresince gave a wonderful explanation of why we need the group.

[HereSince1628]

14. I wrote and posted the petition in meta and sent a PM to the Admin to draw their attention to it

Last edited Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:05 AM - Edit history (2)

when it exceeded by 3 times all the advice I had been given about requirements for petitioning a new group.

The reason for a new group was/is that the goals of providing a safe, non-provoking environment needed for support are critically important to providing support for DUers, but the maintenance of the safe-haven is incompatible with open discussion about potentially arousing topics that emerge at the interface of psychology, mental health care, and society/social justice.

For example-- think about how potentially painful it could be to encounter a topic such as the recent report of a genetic basis for pedophilia for a person struggling with flashbacks from post-traumatic stress due to childhood sexual abuse at the hands of a pedophile. That could be very difficult.

Of course, the role of genetics is important to contemporary psychology as it increasingly explores the biological basis for mental illness. It's also important to discussion about mental health and social justice. But a discussion that broaches biological determinism is likely to be inappropriate in a safe haven where people are hoping and expecting recovery or remission.

Advances in research, and treatment are important and interesting things to discuss. Similarly news events frequently pop out stories that would be interesting to discuss among persons interested and informed about psychology, but in GD those topics quickly sink off the pages. On that sinking path they also attract mostly uninformed and sometimes malicious/ chauvanistic anti-mental health commentary.

A slower moving group that attracts people with interest and expertise would promote discussions and understanding. But creating new groups is a lower priority for the admin than deleting groups. I can't speak to why that is, but I know in response to the question I posted in Ask the Admin there is indeed reluctance to create groups.

As a side note, the admin scratched Meta without warning. When they scratched Meta they removed from my grasp the petition and all the recs it had. I didn't have a chance to capture it in any form.

As far as I know it's gone and not in DU archives.

A quick push through the DU archives for the day I thought I created it, Jan 6, didn't reveal it. I'm not sure if the Admin ever had time to look at it.

On edit: I found the subject line of the petition in the Archives, for January 5, but it is unavailable because Meta is offline.

[fizzgig]

16. you bring up all manner of things i had not considered

it's unfortunate the admins are so reluctant to create new groups, that is absolutely what is appropriate in this situation.

[hunter]

19. I voted "no."

So much as I loathe the pharmaceutical companies, there are pharmaceutical products that keep me and a few members of my family somewhat functional.

We don't need any assholes here in this forum telling us some defect of our political system or society is the root of our problem, and that all we have to do is meditate according to some formula and then all our mental health issues go away. Yes, our political system and society do suck, especially in the ways it deals with mental illness, but this failure of our society does not cause mental illness.

Off my meds I'm a dumpster diving paranoid homeless guy. That's just the way it is. My recent bungee jump testing of the social safety net I've built and maintained has proven once again that this is so. Fuck, fuck, fuck, it's ALL chemistry with me. If I don't take those pills with the irritating side effects I'm screwed.

Some people, even people here in this forum, will benefit by all the variations of talk therapy, they will learn how to avoid the stinkin' thinkin', learn how to break the bad mental habits, or deal with past traumas in their lives in a rational way, but it ain't me. I have to take the medicine, and in doses that make me uncomfortable. If I don't reality gets all shifty and ugly about me. The universe begins to suck.

That's not a political discussion.

[HereSince1628]

20. Someone else is welcome to take on a new petition, I won't soon do it.

There are a handful of reasons why.

1) The rules of petitioning for new groups remain unknown and seem unknowable--

a. two months ago when I used the 'help' function, the admin never responded. Advice came from other DUers in much the same way as jury comments--collectively they were incoherent and contradictory recommendations of how it was done back in the good ol days.

b. this past week, as the new ATA went active, I asked again, and again I got no response, although this time I was certain that Skinner had seen the request as he answered that deleting groups was more a priority.


2) It's unclear to me where a petition should even be posted to receive recs.. It should be posted where people who would respond positively to it could see it and reply in support of it--

a) It could be posted in MHSG and there it might get the mystery level of support. But, if only MHSG supports the petition it seems that there is less need for a new group and more need for a rebranding / repurposing of MHSG.

b) Posting it in GD means subjecting the petition to significant mischievous traffic. A petition isn't a debate. Non-support of a petition doesn't require a comment, but everything in GD attracts contrarian commentary--orthogonality is a major feature of GD.


3) I am not a star member, so I'm in a disadvantaged position to be asking the Admin for favors.

4) The adventure of blazing a trail through uncharted wilderness to discover and by chance fulfill the still and as yet unspecified requirements for petitioning a new group, isn't for me.


I wave my interest in that effort to someone with more persistence in the face of passive dismissal. Having my effort ignored and finally sent into offline oblivion isn't good for me (Skinner has already answered in ATA to another poster's question about access to archived Meta with a "your fucked" statement).

Personal futility triggers the worst of my symptoms. Ending up feeling like a fool at the end of fool's errand puts me in a very bad space. My higher functioning modality can intellectualize that distress as a distortion caused by pathological sensitivity, but when I'm triggered I can't reach high functioning.

[Neoma]

21. ... How about the Welcome & Help forum?

[HereSince1628]

22. Lost my post with the crash...anyway, Maybe that's the place

but then again maybe it's not.

I'm not sure there is a point to worrying about that until you get rules and a go ahead from the Admin.

[BainsBane]

23. understandable

I posted a request for a gun control activism group right after Sandyhook. It got lots of recs and replies voicing support. They did nothing, despite the timely nature of the request due to political circumstances.

I agree with your point about futility.

[fizzgig]

24. what appears to be a similar group was just approved

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1259450

[BainsBane]

25. Yes, that's ours

Thanks.