My Rant. I feel that it'd only be safe to say here.

[Neoma]

Every single time someone goes on a shooting rampage, they're automatically mentally ill. Unless you're black. (Media sucks.) Mentally ill folks are less likely to attack people, because its overwhelmingly the case that they're victims themselves. I'm more likely to hide in the closet than go on a shooting rampage. That goes with most victims. I think it's ironic that while they assume and point out that the shooter MUST be mentally ill, the shooter might have traumatized those people who beared witness, enough to trigger a person into a mental illness. Do you honestly believe those traumatized people will go off and shoot others because they witnessed it?

Question: are rapists considered to be mentally ill? No. And is a guy with a gun always mentally ill?

The stigma won't wash. Because everyone needs this scapegoat in some warped reasoning of, "well at least he wasn't normal like me" kind of logic.

The only pitifully good thing out of these discussions is the abysmal care people with mental health issues face, and how the start of the blame sits squarely on Ronald Reagan's lap. Great to notice! I agree on that! Except I'm NOT okay with people bringing this up because they are afraid of us. Really guys? Gun problems are purely because all the mentally ill folks are on the loose? That is worse than blaming videogames. It goes as deep to become discrimination.

Even if the gunman is mentally ill in any form or fashion, that's still a pretty broad stroke to say gun violence is here because "they're on the loose." Healthy people can be cold blooded murderers too, and this kind of topic is the reason people who are sick with a mental illness, is in the closet.

That ends my rant. I reccomend not being on DU for about a week to avoid this crap. That's what I might do.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Rec. DU has gone into a frenzy.

And that's all I'll say except that, yes, a break would probably be the best thing, for me at least.

Til later, take care.

[Neoma]

2. I've read bits and pieces, and I think that's all I need to read.

Given to how the conversations have turned.

[Squinch]

3. Gun trolls jump to "the shooter was mentally ill" to deflect the conversation from the real

issue: our gun laws are ridiculous. They try and steer the conversation off to "we need better mental health care" and hope we will wander off the gun issue.

We do need better mental health care. But mental illness was not the causative factor in this tragedy. Guns were.

This family had money enough for all the mental health care it needed. This man still slaughtered dozens of babies.

I'm not afraid of people with mental illness. I'm afraid of people with guns.

[Neoma]

4. I admit to liking bows and arrows, and skeet shooting.

I enjoyed it as a kid. But the fun of aiming has been brought to videogames for me. I do not own any weapons, except for my knife collection that I began because it was my dad's interest as well, and I liked carving blocks of wood.

I don't need a gun to feel safe.

[Jamastiene]

15. I have a pocket knife collection and once had a couple of BB guns

and a store bought bow and arrows, along with homemade bows and arrows. Now, I use bows and arrows in Skyrim and that's about it. I've never had the urge to kill anyone. I really wish people would quit assuming we are all sitting around plotting mass murder. Geez, even before I found the right therapist, right diagnoses, and right doctor who gave me the right medicine (I had a horrible time finding the best medication for my condition), I never had any earthly urge to hurt anyone. I just wanted to quit hurting.

I do lots of woodworking and crafting hobbies where I need small bits of wood carved to fit just right. I have worn out lots of pocket knives doing little projects. I love my knife collection even if most of them are now too worn out to use any more.

My step dad has a couple of guns. He doesn't hunt any more. My mother made him stop that, lol. He only ever uses his guns around the holidays. One is a .22 and he uses it to shoot mistletoe out of a tree for Christmas decorations. Then it goes back on the wall in his gun rack he has on the wall. I've been around guns all my life, plenty of them. No one has ever been hurt by my hands, nor will they. Too bad the rest of DU thinks if I miss my anti-depressant that I will be a danger to them. That's downright weird that they think that way. If I miss my meds a day, I'm more apt to be in the bed in a fetal position, hurting physically, because whether or not they will acknowledge SSRI withdrawal syndrome as real, I have it if the drug store is late getting my prescription filled. I have taken to ordering my prescription a full month ahead of time. It's a nasty experience to go through SSR withdrawals if I miss a med, but it is much better than the alternative of being unable to enjoy life and unable to get through the day without such a heavy heart as before. I wouldn't trade them for the world.

[Neoma]

18. High five on the Skyrim bit.

[easttexaslefty]

5. You asked, "Question: are rapists considered to be mentally ill? No. And is a guy with a gun always

I would say yes. There is mentally unwell & mentally well.
To perpetrate violence is a act of a mentally unwell person.
Obviously, not all mentally ill are violent. I'm not and I can't kill a fly. Neither would the vast amount of people who struggle with mental issues.

[Neoma]

6. Didn't click on the link I see.

[easttexaslefty]

7. Sure, I did.

Doesn't mean I agree.

[Neoma]

8. Right...

You could then make the argument that every criminal is mentally ill because they didn't follow the rules of society by harming other people to benefit themselves.

What you're saying, I think goes into the rapists favor.

[easttexaslefty]

9. Yes you could.

And rapist are scum, obviously. That doesn't precluded them from being mentally ill scum.

[Neoma]

10. Except doctors do not treat them as such.

Whether or not you disagree with me.

[easttexaslefty]

11. Ok. I'm not going to belabour the point.

I'm a 57 year old woman that has experienced sexual violence. I have my opinion, same as you, same as any given professional is entilted.
My opinion, to violently attack another human being is an act of mental un wellness ( mental illness )
You think otherwise. Oh well, so be it.

[elleng]

16. With you, lefty.

Not belaboring, but did want to 'contribute' something here, and this is it.

[easttexaslefty]

12. And maybe, just maybe

it would help, if people were not in the closet about their mental health.
I'm not and I will never be put there.
I am the face of mental illness. I would not feel shame if I had cancer. Why would I feel shame about by brain illness?
If others feel differently about me because of that, that's on them.
I am not a danger to anyone. That doesn't change the fact that a person who takes an assault weapon and shoots 20 kindergardeners at point blank range, to death is mentally ill.

[Neoma]

13. The reports are so iffy right now.

Labeled autistic, then there's speculation about that now. It's only the 2nd day after the incident.

[Jamastiene]

14. Thank you for your OP.

I feel exactly the same way. It feels like salt in the wound to be lumped into a category with someone who did something I find horrible. So, in addition to being horrified and saddened by what has happened, being mentally ill somehow makes us complicit in their eyes? To me, that is one of the ultimate insults. It really does feel like salt in the wound.

[Neoma]

17. The only thing you can do would be to complain in meta.

I'm not so sure I really have to say why I don't go there. But you could.

[polly7]

19. I saw this article I thought might be appreciated here.

SUN DEC 16, 2012 AT 01:23 PM PST

I know you're busy blaming mental illness, but as a mentally ill person I'd like a moment.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/16/1170766/-I-know-you-re-busy-blaming-mental-illness-but-as-a-mentally-ill-person-I-d-like-a-moment#

"We need to have an honest conversation about culture - and that's not going to happen. About the lies we tell ourselves. Puritans. The Old West. Pioneers. Duels. Exceptionalism. Isolationist warriors. Peacemakers. Winners. The Best. We lie to ourselves. All the time. Our resolute unwillingness to look at what we really tell each other, our children, the world - and the contradictions that threaten to shatter that illusion all around us - that is the source of these kind of outbursts. Not "he was autistic" "he was schizophrenic" "she was a survivalist" - none of those things CAUSED this to happen.

Our shitty culture caused this to happen. Our pretense that death is an enemy that must be fought and defeated, rather than part of life. Our desire to be entertained by anxieties - anything else is deemed "boring." Our childlike black and white view of the world that puts us in the centre and the rest of the world nonexistent. That every problem only has two possible and diametrically opposite solutions. That reality is personal, mutable, and seeks to be "fair."

Until we are willing to address the lies we live in - we're just going to keep having people who explode and try to take as many other people with them as we can.

WE are the problem. Not guns. Not mental illness.

Cultural illness is the problem - and there are no pills or quick fixes for that."