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"Why I don't take advice from men." (Original Post) demmiblue Dec 2023 OP
I couldn't agree more. Blue Dawn Dec 2023 #1
Well MOMFUDSKI Dec 2023 #2
Very sensible! Nictuku Dec 2023 #3
These short videos are awesome. love_katz Dec 2023 #59
i've wished for a wife many, many times. mopinko Dec 2023 #4
Me too, I was a career woman, raising a child, husband was working as well but mostly I Bev54 Dec 2023 #21
An enlightening book was published in 2001, called "The Price of Motherhood." ariadne0614 Dec 2023 #70
she doesnt know the facts so she justs makes stuff up lol. not taking advice from her nt msongs Dec 2023 #5
Apparently, you weren't listening... GiqueCee Dec 2023 #7
her word choice indicates she doesnt know facts. she keeps saying "probably" which indicates msongs Dec 2023 #9
She knows the kid is not with the dad. Demobrat Dec 2023 #8
He doesn't fill in the details. Concerning his own child. I wonder why? paleotn Dec 2023 #10
I was in the corporate workforce for 34 years. I cannot count how many career talks I've heard or stories I've read. MLAA Dec 2023 #36
I had a boss once who brought his kid to work Demobrat Dec 2023 #39
Out of curiosity, what century are you living in? Orrex Dec 2023 #74
Oh, the msongs is living in this century drmeow Dec 2023 #76
I had a guy tell me you're a nice girl but you should get married and have kids being in the finance business kimbutgar Dec 2023 #6
This Casey fellow is obviously an asshole. So the TikTok'er views men's advice as poor b/c that guy is an asshole? TeamProg Dec 2023 #11
"That is sexist to it's core." Yeah, no. demmiblue Dec 2023 #13
Voila! I rest my case. nt TeamProg Dec 2023 #14
Lol! demmiblue Dec 2023 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author TeamProg Dec 2023 #19
Yawnnnnnn niyad Dec 2023 #64
Lol! demmiblue Dec 2023 #92
And you make our case! niyad Dec 2023 #63
I think you have missed the message. Bev54 Dec 2023 #22
The message was pretty clear. The TikTok'er is bitter about something. nt TeamProg Dec 2023 #25
Naw, it's pretty clear a certain poster is bitter about something canuckledragger Dec 2023 #34
Right over your head. Bev54 Dec 2023 #37
Post removed Post removed Dec 2023 #41
And now you make the all-or-nothing fallacy Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #45
I agree, so to say "I no longer take men's advice" as the TikTok'er post is absurd. And to agree TeamProg Dec 2023 #47
What's absurd is you twisting ordinary statements into all or nothing. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #50
The TikTok'er was 'all or nothing' and posters here agreed with that.. so.. TeamProg Dec 2023 #51
Your thanks are insincere, as is your line of argument. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #55
It's basically the mercuryblues Dec 2023 #58
Why are you taking this so personally? canuckledragger Dec 2023 #46
Well, I wish I hadn't taken his advice. Turns out it was misogynistic. SharonAnn Dec 2023 #54
I don't know if it is that you "don't understand, " "can't understand," or REFUSE to try to understand... hlthe2b Dec 2023 #82
Yep, you missed it. Bev54 Dec 2023 #35
Please see my reply above. MLAA Dec 2023 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author TeamProg Dec 2023 #40
Regarding career advice in the late 70s, I was wise not to take my loving dad's advice. MLAA Dec 2023 #42
And you double down on your all-or-nothing illogic Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #44
It's always interesting when a guy refers to women as "females" Orrex Dec 2023 #80
This message was self-deleted by its author TeamProg Dec 2023 #81
It's also interesting that you think your continued posting improves your credibility Orrex Dec 2023 #84
Good call there! AZSkiffyGeek Dec 2023 #89
Your logic fails. She is not basing it on ONE guy. :eyes: . . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #43
You mean like patriarchal men do? niyad Dec 2023 #61
This woman speaks for me. WhiteTara Dec 2023 #12
Preach it!!! niyad Dec 2023 #65
Bet it's good. I don't do X. Joinfortmill Dec 2023 #16
Neither do I, except to cost Musk. I block his cookies, his ads, his trackers Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #20
That was really good and really true Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #17
As a man, I've never dispensed unsolicited advice to a woman EYESORE 9001 Dec 2023 #18
My wife taught me early on never to give her advice SouthernDem4ever Dec 2023 #23
Yes! Wild blueberry Dec 2023 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author TeamProg Dec 2023 #26
Repeating your mistake doesn't make it truer. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #53
Excellent rant! tblue37 Dec 2023 #27
I take my wife's advice. I'm not stupid. twodogsbarking Dec 2023 #28
Yep. I was fortunate enough to work for one of the world's largest corporations from 1973 until 2003. sinkingfeeling Dec 2023 #29
I started working for a company in 82 that was often touted as the best company to work for during the 70s-90s MLAA Dec 2023 #33
Preach Sister! maspaha Dec 2023 #30
Truth is, I don't see many men getting a word... TreasonousBastard Dec 2023 #31
Really? Studies show that men talk more than women in meetings, groups, and converstations. A LOT more! SharonAnn Dec 2023 #56
Having been to many, many meetings and... TreasonousBastard Dec 2023 #57
Your post is completely contradicted by. your post, and every study on the niyad Dec 2023 #67
So spot on. She speaks for me. onecaliberal Dec 2023 #32
"Why would we take advice from people trying to control and kill us?" Say what??? TeamProg Dec 2023 #48
JFC, have you NOT been paying attention to what is happening??? Never niyad Dec 2023 #68
Have you not read / heard about women fighting against abortion even if it could kill the mother? TeamProg Dec 2023 #79
You know what? My attempts at establishing relationships by being a supportive, respectful, nice guy have left me NBachers Dec 2023 #49
I feel sad that your attempts to be supportive, respectful and nice haven't been enough. ariadne0614 Dec 2023 #72
Tbh, you deserve absolutely nothing for being supportive, respectful, and nice. Oneironaut Dec 2023 #93
Thanks for telling me that I deserve nothing. happy new year. NBachers Dec 2023 #94
This message was self-deleted by its author TeamProg Dec 2023 #52
There seems to be a few people commenting who are caught up in the semantics of. . . Collimator Dec 2023 #60
I'd rather blame a system of patriarchal conditioning, than the oblivious behavior of individual men. ariadne0614 Dec 2023 #66
Excellent post. Thank you. niyad Dec 2023 #71
Preach it, Sister!!! niyad Dec 2023 #62
Having read through this very enlightening thread, I see that the anguished "but what niyad Dec 2023 #69
Counting my dad, 75 years of experience loving a man here and there makes me inclined to err ariadne0614 Dec 2023 #73
Here's a link to the clip on her page: Orrex Dec 2023 #75
I take very little unsolicited advice from me or women. LakeArenal Dec 2023 #77
The double standard is alive and well dlk Dec 2023 #78
Double Standard, Indeed. Collimator Dec 2023 #85
Excellent post. MontanaMama Dec 2023 #83
Exactly! Tumbulu Dec 2023 #86
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Dec 2023 #87
Ok I watched the video. Lucky Luciano Dec 2023 #88
Absolutely on target. scarletlib Dec 2023 #90
I can't count how many times a guy mansplained something I know better than them to me. Oneironaut Dec 2023 #91
The mother gets all the responsibility Demobrat Jan 2024 #95

Nictuku

(3,618 posts)
3. Very sensible!
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 04:55 PM
Dec 2023

I've been watching old movies lately and am astounded at how women (especially in any kind of business setting) were treated. I was born in 61, and by the time I came to the work environment, things had improved a lot. We have a LONG way to go, as I found out as a women in the IT industry. People (mostly men), would not take me as seriously as men, even men younger and with less experience as I had.

At any rate, this video reminded me of something I saw recently, and wanted to share with this group. Not sure how well this link will work (it is a playlist of 6 short videos by this guy) Video: TEMSU: Things Every Man Should Understand:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZVJJq5An4z04CMjHLaG1P8vCgt0H1oDh&si=1ku4Tk1N3rAo23LP

If I was a younger, I might fall in love with this guy! But if I met him, I know that I could definitely be friends with him.

love_katz

(2,584 posts)
59. These short videos are awesome.
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 11:07 PM
Dec 2023

I wish I could have had the very good fortune to be with someone like him, 49 years ago. Sigh.

Bev54

(10,082 posts)
21. Me too, I was a career woman, raising a child, husband was working as well but mostly I
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 05:53 PM
Dec 2023

did all the child rearing, house work and cooking and I kept saying, I really need a wife. Eventually just became a single mother and still continued in my career, never had a wife to help me though.

ariadne0614

(1,737 posts)
70. An enlightening book was published in 2001, called "The Price of Motherhood."
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 11:32 AM
Dec 2023

I read it for a paper I was writing, and it opened my eyes once and for all. The roots of my feminism have only grown stronger and deeper in 22 years.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/227506.The_Price_of_Motherhood

GiqueCee

(643 posts)
7. Apparently, you weren't listening...
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 05:26 PM
Dec 2023

... I'm male, if a bit shopworn with age, but I'd take her advice before I'd ever take yours.

msongs

(67,462 posts)
9. her word choice indicates she doesnt know facts. she keeps saying "probably" which indicates
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 05:28 PM
Dec 2023

she does not actually know....

Demobrat

(9,003 posts)
8. She knows the kid is not with the dad.
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 05:27 PM
Dec 2023

How does she know? Because if it was the guy would be shouting it from the rooftops and collecting gushing praise for doing what women do every day.

paleotn

(17,989 posts)
10. He doesn't fill in the details. Concerning his own child. I wonder why?
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 05:28 PM
Dec 2023

Given what we do know, I don't think she went that far out on a limb. Or do you think pre-adult women, with children born out of wedlock, have a wonderfully easy time of it?

MLAA

(17,340 posts)
36. I was in the corporate workforce for 34 years. I cannot count how many career talks I've heard or stories I've read.
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 06:57 PM
Dec 2023

Since this was the early 80s -2019. Not once did a man mention anything about children and how to balance their care with his career. The woman in the video says the caveat multiple times that she doesn’t know him, but her conclusions are right on with my experience across 35 years. Same for other posters here.

Demobrat

(9,003 posts)
39. I had a boss once who brought his kid to work
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 07:03 PM
Dec 2023

and expected me, the only woman in the department, to watch her.
I had to tell him that child care was not in my job description. Luckily, I moved on from there soon after. No doubt I tanked my career at that company with that “attitude “.

drmeow

(5,028 posts)
76. Oh, the msongs is living in this century
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 12:19 PM
Dec 2023

I'm guessing the video really hit a nerve. Guessing the patriarchy has been pretty good to msongs. Having privilege pointed out in no uncertain terms makes people who benefit from it VERY uncomfortable - so they dismiss the person pointing it out. Msongs' post told me EVERYTHING I need to know about msongs - enough to know that NOTHING msongs posts will every carry ANY legitimacy for me (so, on ignore msongs go - too many really good posters on this site to waste my time)

kimbutgar

(21,224 posts)
6. I had a guy tell me you're a nice girl but you should get married and have kids being in the finance business
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 05:16 PM
Dec 2023

Is not woman’s work. I graduated from college in 1978 and started at a brokerage firm and worked in that industry until 2013. It enabled me to make enough money to save for a nice downpayment on my home in SF! I’m glad I didn’t listen to that guy but ironically years later I found out his wife divorced him as she was cheating on him with her tennis instructor. He was devastated and I wasn’t surprised I had met the wife several times and knew she was a gold digger.

TeamProg

(6,291 posts)
11. This Casey fellow is obviously an asshole. So the TikTok'er views men's advice as poor b/c that guy is an asshole?
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 05:28 PM
Dec 2023

That is sexist to it's core.

Try to judge people as individuals and not group them by sex.



Response to demmiblue (Reply #15)

canuckledragger

(1,670 posts)
34. Naw, it's pretty clear a certain poster is bitter about something
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 06:54 PM
Dec 2023

and that certain poster is projecting it on the TikToker.

Response to canuckledragger (Reply #34)

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,047 posts)
45. And now you make the all-or-nothing fallacy
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 07:45 PM
Dec 2023

Women's fathers are, for each woman, one male in a sea of males.

It's absurd to try to make that argument that it is either lots of men or no men at all for advice.

TeamProg

(6,291 posts)
47. I agree, so to say "I no longer take men's advice" as the TikTok'er post is absurd. And to agree
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 08:18 PM
Dec 2023

with that is absurd.

TeamProg

(6,291 posts)
51. The TikTok'er was 'all or nothing' and posters here agreed with that.. so..
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 08:37 PM
Dec 2023

You should really be arguing with the supporters of the TQikTok'er..

But whatever, thanks for chiming in.


canuckledragger

(1,670 posts)
46. Why are you taking this so personally?
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 07:45 PM
Dec 2023

Again, it seems that a certain poster is projecting their own issues onto the TikTok'r

SharonAnn

(13,780 posts)
54. Well, I wish I hadn't taken his advice. Turns out it was misogynistic.
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 08:48 PM
Dec 2023

It took me a while to understand that and unlearn it.

hlthe2b

(102,419 posts)
82. I don't know if it is that you "don't understand, " "can't understand," or REFUSE to try to understand...
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 12:48 PM
Dec 2023

But I hope you will take some time to think through the message being conveyed. It isn't a wholesale attack on men as you seem to wish to make it. It is a call for perspective and why that matters in this context.

MLAA

(17,340 posts)
38. Please see my reply above.
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 06:59 PM
Dec 2023

The vast experience of working women in high powered/corporate careers supports this video. My own across 35 years certainly does.

Response to MLAA (Reply #38)

MLAA

(17,340 posts)
42. Regarding career advice in the late 70s, I was wise not to take my loving dad's advice.
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 07:27 PM
Dec 2023

He advised I become a dental assistant or artist. Nothing against those careers but I chose engineering at the top university for Industrial and Systems Engineering. That decision allowed me to have an amazing career living all around the US, in Asia and Europe. Amazing life experiences and lessons. Dad apologized many times over the years saying he just didn’t realize that I could/should pursue the same level of education and career my brother could/should. Dad never missed an opportunity to tell me how proud he was of me.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,047 posts)
44. And you double down on your all-or-nothing illogic
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 07:43 PM
Dec 2023

You've set up a false dichotomy.

Look it up. If you think you know it, refresh your understanding.

Orrex

(63,233 posts)
80. It's always interesting when a guy refers to women as "females"
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 12:40 PM
Dec 2023

Almost as interesting as the acrobatics that they perform afterwards to justify it.

Response to Orrex (Reply #80)

Orrex

(63,233 posts)
84. It's also interesting that you think your continued posting improves your credibility
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 12:58 PM
Dec 2023

Numerous others in this thread have already destroyed your "point," so little remains of it for me to "scoot around."

Further, you have failed--based on all of your posts in this thread--even to understand what the actual point is:

She is using a particular example to highlight a phenomenon that she's personally witnessed for her whole life, but you are (either falsely or foolishly, or both) pretending that she is using an isolated, out-of-context example to extrapolate widespread behavior.

You've got it exactly backwards, and pretty much everyone here can see it.

WhiteTara

(29,728 posts)
12. This woman speaks for me.
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 05:35 PM
Dec 2023

think what this world would be like if men would take care of the children so women could spread their wings as far as they can. They might cover the entire world for a better space for all.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,047 posts)
20. Neither do I, except to cost Musk. I block his cookies, his ads, his trackers
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 05:50 PM
Dec 2023

He gets no revenue from me, and only costs him to serve the content, like a 3 minute video. A pittance to be sure, but all at his expense.

EYESORE 9001

(25,999 posts)
18. As a man, I've never dispensed unsolicited advice to a woman
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 05:50 PM
Dec 2023

I have been asked on occasion, however, and I limit my advice to areas unrelated to personal relationships.

Response to demmiblue (Original post)

sinkingfeeling

(51,479 posts)
29. Yep. I was fortunate enough to work for one of the world's largest corporations from 1973 until 2003.
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 06:33 PM
Dec 2023

Here's a true story. I was divorced and had a 3 year old when I was hired. I was the only female among 115 men with the same or similar jobs. We were on call to our customers 24/7. My customer happened to be the state government. Several times I received a callout in the middle of the night. No babysitters available at that hour, so I would take my sleeping son with me. I would find a quiet corner and build a nest with coats and put him down while I worked. I felt tremendous pressure to take every call I got so the guys couldn't point to me not keeping up with them. Anyways, one night I had my son sleeping in a corner, and one of the state's top guys came in and saw me and the kid. We talked about the problem I was there to solve and he left. The next day, my manager advised me that he had gotten a call from the state guy about me having to bring my son with me. I truly thought I would be fired, but he said he and the management team (all males) had never thought about the issue. They told me it was okay to decline a callout when I had no one to watch my child. I managed to stay with them until retirement, having 'fun' encountering several more issues as they introduced women into their workforce.

MLAA

(17,340 posts)
33. I started working for a company in 82 that was often touted as the best company to work for during the 70s-90s
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 06:51 PM
Dec 2023

after that they became a company just like any other global 100 company, not bad but nearly as fantastic as the earlier years. Mostly males. They were committed to equality. HR jumped on any hint of mistreatment. My office mate once got turned into HR for saying something to me in jest that someone thought was inappropriate. I explained to HR we were joking and it was not misogynistic. Only once in my 34 years did anyone ever cross the line with me. They asked me how it was to be working for pin money instead of supporting a family. He didn’t know that I was my family’s primary bread winner. Not bad, only one bad experience. Maybe we worked for the same company, haha.

maspaha

(225 posts)
30. Preach Sister!
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 06:36 PM
Dec 2023

Ask yourself why there are so few women in CEO positions, or commercial airline pilots, or engineers. Women put in three times the work, accomplish four times as much and get half as much recognition as the blustering ego sitting next to her. The first time I busted a Captain on a check ride, because he didn’t follow the written callout & respond checklist (plus a couple other issues) he claimed I was incompetent. Never the Dude’s fault, it’s always that Bitch. One day, I just got tired of it

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
57. Having been to many, many meetings and...
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 09:02 PM
Dec 2023

groups, I will agree. The men are bad enough.

It's just this woman, and those like her, who can't shut up any more than the men can.

niyad

(113,612 posts)
67. Your post is completely contradicted by. your post, and every study on the
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 11:26 AM
Dec 2023

issue out there. Thank you for your helpful information.

niyad

(113,612 posts)
68. JFC, have you NOT been paying attention to what is happening??? Never
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 11:30 AM
Dec 2023

mind. I understand completely.

TeamProg

(6,291 posts)
79. Have you not read / heard about women fighting against abortion even if it could kill the mother?
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 12:38 PM
Dec 2023

Is THAT what you are referring to?

I guess it's over my head, correct?



NBachers

(17,149 posts)
49. You know what? My attempts at establishing relationships by being a supportive, respectful, nice guy have left me
Sat Dec 30, 2023, 08:25 PM
Dec 2023

alone, devastated, and broken more times than I care to count. I really don't need to be humbled any more than I already have been.

ariadne0614

(1,737 posts)
72. I feel sad that your attempts to be supportive, respectful and nice haven't been enough.
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 11:52 AM
Dec 2023

Relationships are complicated. FWIW, we’re in social upheaval when it comes to race and gender.

Oneironaut

(5,530 posts)
93. Tbh, you deserve absolutely nothing for being supportive, respectful, and nice.
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 03:28 PM
Dec 2023

Those should be the baselines of being a good person.

Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Collimator

(1,639 posts)
60. There seems to be a few people commenting who are caught up in the semantics of. . .
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 09:08 AM
Dec 2023

. . . The literal words of "Why I don't take advice from men" instead of trying to understand the broader truth of what the woman was trying to convey.

If that woman were exiting a building one wintery day just as man (yes, even her father) were entering and that man said, "There's a patch of ice just to the right of the front door; watch your step", I'm sure she would give that information its proper due.

The whole point of the video is that men often give life and career advice to women without considering the everpresent reality of their differing roles in the primal experience of reproduction. Women are the ones who conceive the babies, grow them in their bodies, push them out of their bodies at actual physical risk to their health and lives and then their bodies are primed to keep those helpless infants alive by producing its food. Add that basic biological reality to all the social conditioning and expectations on women regarding the rearing of offspring and you can see that any advice that isn't tied to that essential experiential truth is kind of pointless.

The woman is saying that all the "take risks, tough it out, buckle down, make sacrifices and you, too can succeed in business" rah rah talk that the man is offering does not even consider the near impossibilty of doing all those things while being directly-- that is, literally physically-- responsible for another human being who cannot safely (or legally) be left alone and who can't even feed themselves or take care of their bowels and bladder by themselves. The undeniable, flesh and blood truth is that reproduction itself requires women to "take risks" and "tough it out". The vast majority of women in the world also have to "buckle down" and "make sacrfices" just to get the next generation of human beings to a stage of minimal independence.

Any career advice that can just skip right over all that physically and mentally demanding activity as if it never happens is almost completely useless. That is what the video speaker is trying to share. It's like a marathon champion offering tips about breathing, form and endurance who doesn't see that the person he is talking to happens to be missing the bottom half of one leg and is using crutches. Those challenges are not insurmountable and the person dealing with them can learn to run a marathon, but one can't just ignore them.

Anyone wishing to just skip the preceeding five paragraphs above can come to similar conclusions just by looking up-- then seriously thinking about-- the definitions of the verbs, "to father" and "to mother". A man can father a child and then just walk away into a completely unchanged life. A woman-- or a man for that matter-- who takes on the role of mothering a child is in for an intense committment and a heavy work load that only begins to ease up a decade down the line.

Taking on all that responsibility while trying to make money just to live --to say nothing of trying to build a career and become enormously successful by our current cultural standards-- is an incredibly daunting task. Anyone (male or female) trying to be glib about this issue isn't worth listening to.

ariadne0614

(1,737 posts)
66. I'd rather blame a system of patriarchal conditioning, than the oblivious behavior of individual men.
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 11:21 AM
Dec 2023

In the interest of nurturing important relationships, it gives men a bit of breathing room to consider the fact that they’ve been conditioned from toddlerhood to identify with a misogynistic/patriarchal system. Once they understand the system, then they can decide what to do about it’s impact on the world, and their own happiness. Misogyny appears to be more deeply ingrained than racism.

That said, the only change I’d make to the TikTok post would be, “Why I don’t take advice from men who don’t recognize/reject their indoctrination into the patriarchy.”

niyad

(113,612 posts)
69. Having read through this very enlightening thread, I see that the anguished "but what
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 11:32 AM
Dec 2023

about the menzzzzz" group is busy today.

ariadne0614

(1,737 posts)
73. Counting my dad, 75 years of experience loving a man here and there makes me inclined to err
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 12:08 PM
Dec 2023

. . .on the side of compassion.

This doesn’t stop me from loathing the misogynistic system too many men refuse to reject. They mistake patriarchy for their actual selves. I do lose patience with individual men who should know better, for clinging to the system out of willful ignorance, selfishness, or fear of “losing their manhood” (god forbid).

LakeArenal

(28,858 posts)
77. I take very little unsolicited advice from me or women.
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 12:20 PM
Dec 2023

If I want an opinion, I’ll ask for it.

I don’t even like to shop with people because I wind up considering what they like and not what I want.

dlk

(11,580 posts)
78. The double standard is alive and well
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 12:22 PM
Dec 2023

Very little has changed. Part of the reason for America’s declining birth rate is we have so little in the way of support for mothers, especially working mothers. The numbers tell the story.

Collimator

(1,639 posts)
85. Double Standard, Indeed.
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 01:03 PM
Dec 2023

I'd wager that most of us perusing the internet have come across articles or social media posts that compare and contrast society's view of fathers versus mothers. One example is bringing home a pizza for dinner.

Dad does it and he's the Fun Dad. "Yay! Daddy brought home pizza!" Society beams with approval because he took the time to pick up a treat for the kids and gave his beloved wife a break for the night.

Mom does it and society clucks its traditionalist tongue and thinks, "Why is this woman not cooking nutritional food for her children? Yes, we know she works, but if her children aren't properly cared for then she needs to rethink her priorities." And of course, really old-fashioned traditionalists also insist that her husband worked at a "real" job all day and deserves a home-cooked meal.

And yes, what I'm representing here may seem sort of extreme, but there are people who still think that way. It's not just general societal expectations, either. People in the halls of power, both corporate and legislative, are holding back policies that could improve the lives of working women, their children, and in many cases, the men that they love.

MontanaMama

(23,352 posts)
83. Excellent post.
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 12:55 PM
Dec 2023

All true imo. As a mom, wife and almost retired professional, this double standard has been the common thread throughout my adult life. Not complaining, it’s just TRUE.

Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Lucky Luciano

(11,264 posts)
88. Ok I watched the video.
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 01:35 PM
Dec 2023

She’s not wrong at all. Every point is valid.

She’s also not really making a black and white statement either the way some responders here have assumed though the headline is a very black and white statement.

She doesn’t even make a malicious statement against men. She’s basically saying that men often take for granted the societal pressures and expectations forced on women that would block men from success if they had to also shoulder those expectations. Being blissfully unaware of those pressures renders a lot of their advice moot since it is a huge thing to be unaware of.

Oneironaut

(5,530 posts)
91. I can't count how many times a guy mansplained something I know better than them to me.
Sun Dec 31, 2023, 03:20 PM
Dec 2023

I have a high voice and, can be socially timid, so, men usually tend to interrupt me all the time or talk down to me.

My male boss recently has been scolding me like a child for annoying shit that he never yells at anyone else for, and, it’s annoying as hell.

Also, after watching the video - I’m annoyed how this man was celebrated for not being there for his kid. Disgusting. He was able to leave his kid behind and pursue success and his dreams because society asks absolutely nothing of fathers. It’s always the mother that gets saddled with all the responsibilities, and, if the man helps, he somehow deserves praise for it. Ugh….

Demobrat

(9,003 posts)
95. The mother gets all the responsibility
Mon Jan 1, 2024, 05:11 PM
Jan 2024

and all of the blame if the kid goes off the rails while she’s working two jobs.

The absent father? All he gets is a free pass.

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