It's going to be a long hot summer here on DU.

[William769]

I'm going to be honest with you, I don't know if I'm going to be able to deal with this one.

[xchrom]

1. a gentle reminder so there are no more purges -- general election season will be declared soon.

so those who feel like me: i need to shut up once this becomes certain folks playground.

there have already been discussions in other forums about the GE and TOS violations.

[William769]

2. TOS violations are going unnoticed.

Hence the long hot summer.

[hedgehog]

3. If you see one, alert on it. There's an excellent chance

I will be on the jury!

[xchrom]

4. there are those too.

bridges never really got mended because we were never believed.

[Vanje]

45. "There was NO Purge!"

my ass.

[DURHAM D]

10. They are being noticed William.

They just aren't being dealt with properly.

[Bluenorthwest]

5. I don't really see any reason to 'deal with it'.

Diminishing returns. The anti gay world is coming here hot and furious, the piper's call headed, the 'how to do it' lessons followed.....

[xchrom]

6. and always remember our 'TOS violations' count more than theirs do. nt

[Ms. Toad]

13. Right. That is why this poster is still hanging around.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002568916#post27

(Post left standing here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/124076610#post5 )

And another:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002568916#post16

And, an oldie but goodie: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=70557&mesg_id=70557 - just to show he's not as innocent as he pretends to be at the beginning of the discussion.

And - our little friend is still here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=118183

I sure like that close-to-zero tolerance

[xchrom]

20. i guess i'm a maggot.

[Ms. Toad]

21. You and me both . . .

Oh, wait, I'm the "ACT-UP extremist idiot" or "conservative disrupter," or so I've been told. I'd if I wasn't -ing

[xchrom]

24. It's ridiculous.

Here it is 10 years later & people still think it's ok to treat LGBTIQ like a football.

[William769]

25. Don't you mean soccer ball?

[closeupready]

7. I know. I'm spending less time here. Not worth it anymore, IMHO.

At least, not worth the aggravation. I'm just letting it all go, seems like.

[Fearless]

8. Well there's no use giving up

We all just need to pull together and carry on. Since there are no more fund raising drives and DU subsists on ad revenue... I doubt the admins will be happy to purge the lot of us.

[MNBrewer]

9. I was thinking the same thing

and we need to be prepared to be scapegoated by the "democrats" on DU regardless of the outcome of the election. We're an entirely expendable constituency for the Democrats and we all know it.

[DCKit]

11. They have pills for that.

If you don't mind permanently altering your brain chemistry, that is.

[DURHAM D]

12. Huh?

Not funny. In fact its insulting.

[HillWilliam]

14. Just in the last 24 hours

the word "tr*nny" was allowed to stand by jury. WTF, already?? When posters are called on it, they get all wide-eyed innocent then defensive.

They wouldn't need to be defensive if they weren't making pointed comments.

Dammit. Shouldn't words like that be under TOS?

[William769]

15. Well since I'm in a pissed off mood.

Do you think hiding this post was good enough for being "insensitive and stupid", or do you think it was a PPR offense for bigotry?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=97511

[HillWilliam]

27. Well, the way *I* read the TOS (YMMV)

homobigotry and transbigotry are grounds for Permanent Pizza Repast. It serves no purpose to leave that sort of post lying around for anyone to "show" and read.

Some moments aren't teachable ones.

[Vanje]

46. Thats

Totally fucked up

[Rex]

48. PPR without question, I've seen people get TSd for less.

What an offensive thing to post, how did they get away with it?

[stevenleser]

52. PPR, no question

[hedgehog]

16. May I make some suggestions:

People outside the LGBT community aren't always aware of the implications of some slang terms and/or may not realize how offensive they are. For example, I had no idea that "pearl clutching" was anything but a reference to phony outrage.

So, when you alert, give the specific reason for the alert (for example, "tranny is an unacceptable term to the LGBT community, it is very insulting".)

Also, if I get called as a juror on a specific post, I only see that post. I don't necessarily know about the other nasty posts certain people may be associated with. Put the post in context to give the jurors a better idea of the problem.

[William769]

17. In theory that sounds good in reality it doesn't work

Example, "pearl clutching" was brought to the attention of one specific DUER and how offensive it was but since it seems to be accepted by the general DU population, this DUER used it multiple times against me because he could with no fear of retribution. This is what happens on DU.

I know you to be a strong ally of the LGBT community and trust me when I say it it greatly appreciated. SOme people just want to be asses because they can.

[hedgehog]

18. I thank you for your kind words - I was hoping I wasn't

being patronizing.

One of the lesser known Scriptures says, " Learn ye the face palm, because the asses will always be with us!"

Fight the good fight when you're up to it, take a breather when you need to!

[Ms. Toad]

19. You mean like this one?

At Sun Mar 4, 2012, 12:19 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

Wow, I hope she gets paid well for being a beard.

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

For any jurors who don't know, a "beard" is a woman who provides a gay man cover so he appears straight. Using gay people to insult Rush only "works" if being gay is considered negative. Homophobia is a violation of the terms of service, not to mention hurtful , insensitive, or otherwise over the top. To the admins - whether this post is hidden or not, it would be nice to see that near-zero tolerance in action as promised here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/124012426#post37

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Mar 4, 2012, 12:29 AM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: I suppose it could be argued that speculating that Rush is gay is intended to direct attention to the hypocrisy it implies, and not simply to imply that his being gay is a negative in and of itself. I think it best not to engage in such speculation at all, due to it's potential to be interpreted as insulting to the gay community. There's no need to do so, so let's not.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The alerter is really stretching on this one. LEAVE IT.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: This is a public forum, not your fucking living room.

Thank you.

Most of us do provide an explanation - and more often than not, we are told we are imagining things, stretching, too sensitive, and so on by at least one member of the jury.

FWIW, this is the first one I came to of probably a dozen similar alerts I have made on posts which are derogatory to members of the LGBT community. While I agree that we do need to make the explanations, and that some of the posters (and jurors) truly didn't realize the comment was insulting, there are way too many jurors who respond to the explanations with, "so what?" or worse.

[hedgehog]

22. I'm not sure how I would have voted on that post myself.

I would have read it as implying that Rush was into bestiality and using his marriage to a woman to conceal that. If I had had the time to read the entire sub-thread, I probably would have voted to hide it. If I had been in a hurry, I probably would have left it. I will take special care in the future to get the entire context.

[Ms. Toad]

23. This was during the period in which every other post was a suggestion

that Rush Limbaugh was gay - and there were posts all over the place asking people to stop using gay an insult.

But - the point I was making was that you suggested we explain why a term was insulting to the LGBT community so people who are not part of it don't misunderstand by accident. Even with the explanation bolded for your benefit, in the context of a response to your post suggesting that we provide a detailed explanation, you are wondering if I'm not taking things out of context, reading insult where there is none.

Regardless of anything else in the thread, calling Rush's wife a "beard" is calling Rush gay - using gay to insult.

See how hard it is? If it doesn't work with someone like yourself who is already inclined to be sensitive to our concerns - it doesn't have much chance with people who are hostile to start out with.

[hedgehog]

26. If I had been in a hurry, and failed to read the post in context

or failed to read the explanation, I would have said leave it. After I read the background, I said hide it. My reasoning is a little different than yours - I still think that beard wasn't originally meant as using gay to insult, but to persist in using it knowing that is was causing offense is a good reason to hide a post. The poster may not have meant to insult people, but to refuse to retract words after the explanation was made was insulting.

I've learned something today, and moved from my starting point to where you stand. I hope I will be a better juror in the future.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

31. Hhhmmmmmmm

Maybe I have a different take on speech and words. I think the solution to bad speech is more speech .....not less. If the response is 'so what'...tell them why.....educate the ignorant. I always attempt to be fair and objective when being on a jury....but i give people the benefit of the doubt. We will never be able to talk about racism, sexism or homophobia without even ignorant people being able to talk through their own insecurities. The language of oppression has often been turned against our oppressors......so some of us now neuter words like QUEER or HOMO.

[William769]

32. Theres a difference in being ignorant on a subject

And playing ignorant. We are seeing to much of the latter.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

33. Both are ignorant

.....and you can't ban or ignore ignorance......it will just find a new home.

Take it on and do battle.

[closeupready]

35. No, both are not ignorant.

If someone knows the truth, and yet plays ignorant, then that is the textbook example of being a troll - posing as someone you're not as a means of starting fights and flamewars.

Playing that game will get you banned on every single internet forum of which I'm aware.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

37. Lots of IFS

Whose truth? How exactly do you know they 'know' the truth? You don't other than your PC notion of right and wrong...and trust me that door swings both ways.

Nah....I'm not buying it.

[Rex]

49. Well you can look at their posting history for one thing

and YES there is a difference between a person being sincerely ignorant and willfully ignorant...but the second one is the behavior of a troll. Do we really want trolls here pretending to be stupid about the obvious?

[William769]

36. We can block feigned ignorance in this Group and we will without hesitation.

The rest Of DU, thats another story. We will call them on it.

[closeupready]

39. Thanks. I was just going to PM you about that.

"PC" - if that isn't a right-wing dog whistle...

[William769]

40. I'm a man of my word.

[HillWilliam]

41. Nicely done!

[DURHAM D]

42. Thank you.

[closeupready]

34. Yes. That is the textbook example of being a troll.

nt

[stevenleser]

53. Oh, my god, I was so angry about that poster and post. Now I am angry all over again.

so much for the "Don't alert, try to reason with someone nicely" idea.

[Ms. Toad]

54. :)

It's good to do when you feel up to it - but it should not be mandatory. We go through enough every single day, and this ought not be one more place where we have to be "on call" to educate or fight for our rights.

[William769]

28. Carefully read this thread and tell me if this is not one of the biggest problems on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=76663

This is not ignorance, it's a slap in our face and it was meant to be.

[TriMera]

29. .

[DURHAM D]

30. Exactly -

I can think of three poster rights now that need to be banned from LGBT before they ever get near the door.

Wish the hosts had a way.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. That's what they want, to make fear and quite calls for justice and equality....

That is the goal of the posters who feign ignorance and those who claim they are what they are not in order to cause quarrels among us....

[fightthegoodfightnow]

38. Oh PLEASE

.

[Vanje]

47. What?

nt

[Vanje]

44. Goddam, Bill

You and me both.
The hornets nest is already deafening with angry buzzing.

I have been stronger.

[Creideiki]

50. Honestly, DU experiences long hot summers every year

And then there are the long, blustery autumns, the blisteringly cold winters, and the barely noticeable springs.

There's a reason I limit my appearances here. It's not that I don't miss y'all when I'm gone; and it's not that the jackasses couldn't benefit from having someone tell them they're being jackasses...again...and again...and again and again and again. All these people who remember when "liberal" became a dirty word, but can't understand that referring to transgender people by a nasty epithet should be just as damning. It's that it's not good for my own psyche.

There are a few writers in history who could have pulled off the nasty words to expose the disgusting underbelly of America. Twain did it masterfully with, "No one died, Ma'am, just some..." If you find that you could put a different word in that place and anyone with a soul would wince, then the word is hurtful and mean and shouldn't be used in anything resembling a polite society, not to mention what should be our place to come and commiserate and strategize. DU is rarely that place, sadly. It's most often a bunch of mean, ugly, bigoted people coming together to reassure each other that their bigotry isn't all that bad, really.

[HillWilliam]

51. Since I've been allowed to co-host

I've been watching posts more carefully, thinking "how would I adjudicate if called upon?"

In a lot of cases, I smell stank socks.

[mitchtv]

55. STFU

there, you're innoculated for 6 months. meanwhile ,keep hitting them out of the park, Billy