Straight guy looking for straight male-on-male action

[DetlefK]

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/09/straight_white_dude_seeks_same_race_power_and_the_secret_world_of_straight_guy_on_guy_action/

It's a long read, so I took the liberty to just skim some parts of it.

Basic take-away:
Sometimes a guy wants to have emotionless sex at the drop of a hat. So why not fuck another guy. Urgh, that doesn't mean he's gay! Gays are so... gay! Gays are all about this homo-culture. Only real men can have a beer, talk about sports&bitches and suck each other's cock in a totally heterosexual way.

Excerpt:
Like a married couple nostalgically recreating their first date, dudes set the scene with friendship, beer, weed, straight porn, sports, and talk of “bitches” who are out of town or otherwise unavailable. Unlike in similar websites for gay men (including those frequented by and for “straight acting” gay men), women are a central part of str8 dudes’ erotic discourse. Dudes often describe their sex as a less desirable but easy alternative to sex with women, or suggest that dude-sex is a means of getting the kind of sex that all straight men want from women, but can get only from men—uncomplicated, emotionless, and guaranteed. In some ads, such as the following, dudes express desire to share in violent or objectifying talk about women during their sexual encounter:

[Betty Karlson]

1. Sexual orientation is fluid.

You might also call these guys heteroflexibles. Who cares about a label?

The important thing is that they are comfortable with their own sexual orientation. However fluid, it is never a choice to have it.

In related news: water is wet. And fluid.

[closeupready]

4. "Who cares about a label?" THEY care about a label, apparently.

[Betty Karlson]

7. Hm, my prediction is that present and future generations will care less and less.

But you are right: they still care about labels, at least inasmuch as they don't want a certain label to be applied to them.

To be fair: there are plenty of gay men who have had a tryst with a girl - or even have casual hook-ups with girls from time to time - and don't identify as bisexual. If they can call themselves gay, then I'll respect the self-identification of man-on-man lovers who say they are straight.

[TygrBright]

2. Thanks for posting. Very thought-provoking.

I've been wondering, for quite a while, about the interaction of basic physiological sexuality and culturally-implanted notions of sexuality, and how that intersection affects our ideas of gender, orientation, and identity.

The thought experiment is something like this: Suppose patriarchy went away. Suppose religion ignored or left sex alone, other than in a simple ethical context of the Golden Rule. Suppose social organization focused around providing a context for nurturing and educating children into successful human beings, and sanctioned/supported all successful models of parenting and family formation that accomplished that.

Just suppose.

Would we still have porn? What kinds? What would peoples' sexual fantasies be like? How would people triangulate on their gender identity, and sexual orientation? What would gender-based "role" assumptions and cultural cues be? Would sexual violence diminish? What would replace it? How would people work out mental dysfunction, trauma, feelings of isolation, powerlessness, etc.? To what extend would those things even BE problems?

One thing this article makes me think is that "exclusive" gender-based sexual orientation (being attracted 'only' to a particular gender identity in partner(s)) might become the minority. Maybe even the exception.

interestedly,
Bright

[DetlefK]

8. I have to think of the ancient Greeks now.

Male-on-male was pretty normal and I doubt that such a huge part of the population was homosexual.

I have read that one of the reasons was the gender-split in society: Women did not receive a formal education, so men and women didn't have much to talk about, apart from household-stuff. So, when a man was looking to spend fun-times with someone who understands him, another man was a natural choice.

I faintly remember that being on the receiving end of butt-sex was frowned upon. (=> unmanly) What was very popular was some kind of masturbation-technique with the thighs.

[uriel1972]

10. Not all ancient greeks were the same, it varied from city-state to city-state...

Take the example of Sappho the poet, she came from a city where women were allowed to 'meddle' in such affairs.
And the women of Sparta, yes that Sparta, were much more free than in Athens, the 'birthplace' of democracy.
I expect the numbers of 'exclusive' homosexuality were pretty low, but bisexuality, although probably not thought of in the same way as now was pretty common.
It doesn't pay to think of ancient Greece as a homogenous society, it wasn't.

[DetlefK]

12. No, the Greeks weren't homogenous.

After all, they were at war with each other all the time.

I faintly remember a quote, but I can't remember the exact wording or who said it. A Spartan called the Athenians "boy-fuckers" (or something like that). That would mean that homo-/bisexuality wasn't really accepted in Sparta but it was in Athens.


EDIT:
There is this scene in "300 - Rise of an Empire" where the male protagonist is sad that the village of the female protagonist was burned down and that she was enslaved and raped as a girl. Who did this? "Hoplites".
The movie fails to mention that Hoplites are just a type of greek infantry, not a faction. This greek village could have been burned down and enslaved by pretty much any greek city-state.
And when the traumatized female protagonist wants to destroy these waring/burning/enslaving/raping greek city-states and force them into the multi-cultural persian empire, the male protagonist gets in her way because FREEDOM!!!!!

Do you know how Sparta fell? The real Sparta? They constantly waged war against other Greeks and the men spent so much time at war that they had no time to get their wives pregnant.

[uriel1972]

14. If I recall correctly...

Sparta had state sanctioned bisexuality in order to keep married couples faithful to their spouses. In that the spouses would have same-sex relationships when away from each other.

[left-of-center2012]

3. Just a thought

"In some ads, such as the following, dudes express desire to share in violent or objectifying talk
about women during their sexual encounter"

[nomorenomore08]

6. ...

[Fearless]

9. I don't think the doctor can help this one...

Although it may be of some consolation to take the football away from anyone who partakes in denigrating women during sex.

[uriel1972]

11. I can't help but feel that there is a little misogyny going on here as well...

[Crowman1979]

13. He's probably a preacher--another Ted Haggard type.

Then when he gets caught, he'll blame it on gay marriage.