thoughts on terminology regarding marriage equality?

[fizzgig]

as an ally, i feel it is my job to be supportive of and sensitive to the goals, needs, etc of the lgbt community and do what i can to assist the community with those. however, i must admit to not liking the term 'gay marriage' and even 'same-sex marriage,' preferring instead to use 'marriage equality.'

i see the first two as 'othering' to the community while the third represents what we're after - equality. i don't correct people, i don't get upset when the other terms are used, but i do not use them myself. i also wonder if it could be an issue of framing, would more people be more supporting of marriage equality if that term was used rather than the other two? we know that words do matter.

it's all the same in the end, but this has been rolling around in the back of my brain for a bit and would like to hear what other duers have to say. i really hope i'm not overstepping my bounds with this.

[Not Me]

1. First of all...

THANK YOU for your support. It means a lot and is a huge driver in making change happen.

By framing it in terms of equality, you make it very easy for people to understand that we are talking about the civil aspect of marriage and separating it from whatever idea they have of a church-based convention. So please do continue to reference it as a matter of equality, rather than 'gay marriage' or even 'same-sex marriage.' It does make a difference.

[fizzgig]

6. thank you for your response

that is the place i am trying to come from

[Science Geek]

24. Couldn't agree more!

I too wish to thank the original poster for the support and thoughtfulness about the marriage equality issue, your support and the fact that you care at all means a great deal to me.

I don't 'correct' people who use the term 'gay marriage' mostly because I'm a pretty non-confrontational type of person, but I use my own terminology despite what phrases others may choose which includes 'marriage equality', 'lesbian and gay marriage equality', 'equal marriage rights', and especially 'civil marriage equality' even after someone uses the other terminology. I find that half-way through many conversations people adopt my terminology and seem to use it henceforth at least in subsequent conversations with myself. It's easy and probably best to just set an example.

[William769]

2. Allies like you, really make life bearable on bad day's (good day's too), thanks for that! :)

I myself use the term "marriage equality", after all thats what it is. It goes way beyond the bond of two in a relationship. Look at the benefits that marriage (in the eyes of the law bring to the table).

Nothing is stopping me from having a "Gay marriage" or "same-sex marriage", but I am stopped dead in my tracks when it comes to equality under the law.

I hope this makes sense.

[fizzgig]

7. it does make sense

that's a good way of putting it

[LeftofObama]

3. Thank you for supporting us!

Even though I'm a gay man I am guilty of using the term "gay marriage" instead of marriage equality. I used it recently and felt awful after I said it. For the life of me I couldn't think of marriage equality. I like marriage equality a lot better.

Maybe if I make myself type marriage equality 1000 times it will drill it into my head.

[fizzgig]

8. some times the brain just freezes up

you know that thing about the other thing?

[Reio88]

4. A "what about" marriage equality question?

Perhaps this should be on another thread.
Marriage equality is just common sense to me. But as a pagan the whole church thing is out.
On to my real point.
What if a bi male would like to marry both his mates - one male , one female?
or a bi female to wed 1 woman, 1 man
Now we have an entirely different issue.

We now have 3 people married and divorce, separation of just one or both. I see a legal complexity
beyond reason. Both for the system and possible employer benefits. Not to mention children or adoption.

It would seem the easiest answer is 2 people marry an then cheat with the 3rd.
But that leaves 1 person not part of the union.

Personally it's always been easy to say 2 people are married. Two is easy and still conforms to the
standard accepted norm of marriage of one+one.

[William769]

5. Your right, your post should be on another thread.

Should be under bigamy or polygamy.

[fizzgig]

9. probably should be another thread

[Call Me Wesley]

10. No go.

Marriage is between two people. Gender doesn't matter, and that's what we fight for. To bring this 'rhetorical' issue into here doesn't make it easier. It - on the contrary - plays straight into RW points. Divorce - adoption - cheating. Keywords. Pagan, another one; marriage equality has nothing to do with religion but with federal equality rights.

So if I go 'hmmmm' on your post, don't blame me. Let's discuss this later. Are you Tannis?

[fizzgig]

11. thank you for saying what i couldn't put into words

[Jamastiene]

12. The difference is that you are delving into polygamy.

When it comes to marriage equality, we are only asking for rights for one on one marriage.

[pinto]

14. Marriage is a commitment, a choice. Not a sexual orientation. I think your bisexual hypothesis

is a straw man argument. And a slippery slope one at that.

[Zorra]

17. That seems like a very odd concern. nt

[pinto]

13. I like "marriage equality". Levels the field and knocks the legs out from under some

of the "special rights" for gays BS. Equality is simply equality. Thanks fizzgig.

[fizzgig]

20. that special rights nonsense gets my hackles up

pinto

[Fearless]

15. I tend to agree with you.

And I do not think you're overstepping your bounds. It is an interesting conversation to be had. I tend to go with marriage equality when amongst those who understand LGBT issues. I would use a more "mainstream" same-sex marriage if I was talking to those who don't fully understand what I mean by "marriage equality", in general.

I haven't seen you around before, so welcome to the LGBT group and we can always do with some more allies.

[fizzgig]

21. thanks for the welcome

i spend a lot of time lurking here, i really love this group.

i can see using same-sex marriage in those situations, i hadn't thought of it from that perspective.

[JackNotJill]

16. I feel like the movement is shifting toward "marriage equality" over "gay marriage",

as far as preferred terminology goes, and for exactly the reasons you describe. You are far from overstepping any bounds...you are right at the forefront of the push for equal rights.

[fizzgig]

22. welcome to du!

[Zorra]

18. I prefer the term marriage equality. nt

[Mothdust]

19. it can be thought of in terms of gender equality apart from "gay" rights

That is because the first challenges to marriage equality charged sex discrimination , claiming that current laws imply that a woman is an inferior to a man in fulfilling the role of spouse to a woman. Essentially saying that only a man can fulfill that role is untrue and, again, discriminatory against women and vice versa. Gay orientation actually never really entered into it. That is why it came to be referred to as same sex marriage. BTW, the judge ruled in favor of same sex marriage, but there was an injunction preventing the release of licenses until after the state of Hawaii constitution was amended giving power to the legislature to define marriage as between 1 man and 1 woman, thus blocking same sex marriage in the state.

[fizzgig]

23. i did not know that had happened in hawaii

there was a civil union bill in the colo legislature this past session and it had enough votes to pass the republican-controlled house. well, the speaker would not bring it to a vote and when a special session was called to address that, among other bills, he sent it to a committee he knew would kill it.

dirty pool all the way around.

[LiberalAndProud]

25. It truly helps to define the struggle when we use the right words.

I was chatting with a young lesbian couple who have been mostly unconcerned with the right to marry. As with many young people, they tend to eschew the institution of marriage on the face of it. Speaking to them in terms of equality and common civil rights, though, resonated with them. I watched as they started to nod their heads in agreement, and it warmed my heart a little. I was also struck by the irony of the entire conversation -- me an old straight white woman lecturing this young couple. Some things happen backward, there is no doubt about it.