European Union ‘is breaking international law’ by funding illegal West Bank building projects

[shira]

The EU is acting illegally by funding unauthorised Palestinian building in areas placed under Israeli control by international law, say an NGO, international lawyers and MEPs.

More than 400 EU-funded Palestinian homes have been erected in Area C of the West Bank, which was placed under Israeli jurisdiction during the Oslo Accords – a part of international law to which the EU is a signatory.

The Palestinian buildings, which have no permits, come at a cost of tens of millions of Euros in public money, a proportion of which comes from the British taxpayer. This has raised concerns that the EU is using valuable resources to take sides in a foreign territorial dispute.

Official EU documentation reveals that the building project is intended to ‘pave the way for development and more authority of the PA over Area C (the Israeli area)’, which some experts say is an attempt to unilaterally affect facts on the ground.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2874883/EU-funding-illegal-building-West-Bank-says-report.html#ixzz3S0PmTl7M
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[atreides1]

1. Uh huh

And?

[TexasProgresive]

2. It seems that Israel has been breaking Internat'l law

in Palestine for a long time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories
The International Court of Justice,[4] the UN General Assembly[5] and the United Nations Security Council regards Israel as the "Occupying Power".[7] UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel’s occupation "an affront to international law."[8] The Israeli High Court of Justice has ruled that Israel holds the West Bank under "belligerent occupation".[9] According to Talia Sasson, the High Court of Justice in Israel, with a variety of different justices sitting, has repeatedly stated for more than 4 decades that Israel’s presence in the West Bank is in violation of international law.[10]

[sabbat hunter]

5. you may not want to

use a noted anti-Semite like Richard Falk to make your point.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

7. Falk is Jewish.

[shira]

13. Falk is still an antisemite. Anyone supporting Hamas' neo-nazi war against the Jews....

...is antisemitic.

So that pretty much includes the entire BDS movement.

[procon]

3. Riddle me this...

Why is it "wrong" for Palestinians to rebuild their homes that Israel destroyed, but its OK for Israel to build houses on land taken from Palestinians?

[shira]

4. Private vs. public state land. Private individuals cannot build....

...on state lands w/o going through the proper channels first.

International Law (Oslo) is clear that Israel has administration over Area C. Both the Palestinians and the EU signed onto that.

Palestinians can do whatever they want in Areas A & B of the W.Bank....where the PA administers the law.

[procon]

6. In for a penny; in for a pound.

The Oslo Accords also stipulated that Israel would return land to the Palestinians, yeah? The rest of the world continues to exhort the Israeli authorities to comply with the many declarations and resolutions that have accumulated since. That won't happen long as the US has a heavy thumb on the scale, but little by little, there is some hope that, too, might be changing.

It's the worst sort of gamesmanship where Israel approves construction plans, but then arbitrarily refuses to issue permits to build. While it's technically true that "Palestinians can do whatever they want Areas A & B", the devil in the details, and when Israel controls the water and power, and restricts transportation of supplies as well as people, it's difficult to find your explanation credible.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

8. Don't buy into the two-penny hasbara BS.

Theft is theft, and calling that stolen land "state-owned" is laughable.

The BS artists love to sell bankrupt Israeli policy as reasonable at the same time crying victim; while stomping on Palestinians rights all they can.

Pogroms are anti-human rights whether the directive comes from Tsarist Russia or Colonial Tel Aviv.

[procon]

9. Absolutely!

Israel's policies are intended to keep the Palestinians marginalized and deeply impoverished, unable to uplift themselves or improve their lives. The EU groups that are trying to assist Palestinian communities are focusing on international laws and simply bypassing the arbitrary authority of Israel's occupational government, which in itself is an illegal construct.

[shira]

12. The occupation isn't illegal.

The Palestinians should've accepted at least one of Israel's peace offers from 2000 or 2008.

There would be no occupation or settlements.

The Palestinians would have their own state.

[procon]

15. I see. I'll leave you to enjoy your fantasies. nt

[shira]

17. The occupation is legal. That's a fact. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

18. The settlements are illegal though.

And they're backed up by Israeli firepower.


Try defending that.

[shira]

19. You're changing the topic. The occupation is legal. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

22. Nope. They're one in the same...

try as some might to pretend otherwise.

[shira]

25. Who needs a dictionary, right? Now occupation = settlements.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

30. Good, shira. You're learning.

But it is really occupation + illegal settlments = apartheid.

[shira]

34. Apartheid is a big word you have trouble with. I recommend a dictionary. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

38. I reccomend you take a course in reading comprehension.

[shira]

11. Looks like u could use a dictionary for the word "theft"....

The W.Bank has never been exclusive Palestinian land.

The Palestinians have never had sovereignty there.

=========

Lastly, the Jews are indigenous to their historic homeland and have a right to live there, despite the neo-nazis & racist ass clowns who want that area to be completely Jew free.

The same Jews there today speak the same language and have the same history, culture, religion, traditions and bloodlines as Jews who lived in Judea/Samaria 3000 years ago.

Indigenous.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

20. Thank you for the argument for

state-sponsored theft, shira.

You always suceed to fail magnificantly: exposing yourself with that overtly sophomoric argument.

That is my opinion mind you, but anybody that argues that Israelis (code word "Jews&quot should be allowed to settle outside the borders of Israel, pusing out Pakestinians in the process, should not be taken seriously.

[shira]

23. There is no theft going on, unless you believe Jews have no right....

...to live across the 1949 armistice line.

Indigenous people purchasing houses in their ancient homeland are not thieves.

------

Not Israelis. Jews.

You have no problem with the many Israeli Arabs living in settlements.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

26. When the IDF protects and arms these illegal settlers, shira,

the they are illegal colonists.

Do try and keep up with the general concept of theft if you please...

[shira]

27. Name some illegal Arab Israelis living in settlements along with Jews.

You claim your problem is with Israelis across the 1949 armistice line.

Back it up.

[azurnoir]

29. Show us exactly how the settlements are legal under international law

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

31. But... but... but...

They just moved there since they have the right to take, harrass, destroy and kill...all the while as the IDF looks on.

[shira]

36. Not so fast. The occupation is legal, agreed? n/t

[azurnoir]

39. explain how the settlments are legal please I did not say anything about the occupation nor will I

entertain goal post changes, you either can or can not tell us

[shira]

41. No go then. Have a nice day. n/t

[azurnoir]

43. I see so you can not tell us how the settlements are legal I take it?

Thanks for that

[shira]

45. Sure I can. But u butted into a discussion about occupation....

First things first.

[azurnoir]

46. well let's cut to chase then are the settlements legal and how so

that is the "crux of the biscuit" so to speak

[shira]

47. You first. Is the occupation legal or not? n/t

[azurnoir]

48. I'll humor you and say sure it is legal-so now what ?

[shira]

49. Good. No law exists stating Israeli settlements are illegal. n/t

[azurnoir]

51. actually yes there is unless of course you want to discount the Geneva Conventions

is that it ?

[shira]

56. We went over that one already. You lost on the term "transfer". n/t

[azurnoir]

60. Then link us up to where you claim "I lost" Israel allows the transfer of it's civilian population

for the express purpose of colonizing it's occupied territories

[shira]

63. The context in Geneva is forced population transfer, which doesn't apply to Israel.

The 4th Geneva Convention also refers to territory occupied as a result of an aggressive war (not defensive as in the case of Israel).

Lastly, it only applies to previous sovereign territory & Palestine has never been sovereign.

[azurnoir]

65. there is nothing in Geneva 4 about forced transfer it simply says transfer

and over 130 countries recognize Palestine as sovereign

[shira]

68. We went over this already. The context is forced transfer.

And Palestine is not sovereign.

[azurnoir]

70. Link us up to where we went over that please unless of course there is some reason you wish to keep

that quiet

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

32. Could you st least leave your closeted bias at the door

and acknowledge them as Palestinians?

[shira]

35. Do u have a problem with Arabs in Israel who identify....

...as Israelis?

You're very bad at this.

If you're against just "Israeli" settlers and these settlers are not to be conflated with Jews, then who or what are they?

Be specific.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

40. They're Palestinians, shira.

Conversing with you reminds me of films from the 1950's where Southern whites just couldn't keep sticking their foot in their collective mouths when it came to ackniwledging race.

[shira]

42. Who are these Israeli settlers if they're not Jews? Don't run away.

Not all Arabs in Israel identify as Palestinians.

They're Israeli citizens.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

54. They're illegal Israeli settlers, shira.

[shira]

59. Israeli? You mean Jewish settlers. Be direct please. n/t

[azurnoir]

71. I'll play shira at this point in time NO Israeli citizen should be living in WB settlements

and that is regardless of what ethnic group they belong to

[shira]

76. So Arab citizens of Israel in settlements are illegal colonial squatters, correct? n/t

[azurnoir]

80. if they are Israeli citizens then yes

[shira]

10. Oslo doesn't call for unilateral Israeli withdrawal from all the W.Bank....

It calls for a settlement based on negotiations.

Israel has made at least 2 offers to end the occupation and settlements since 2000. The Palestinians rejected both without making so much as a counter-proposal. If you were against the settlements and occupation and wanted peace, you'd call on the Palestinians to be reasonable.

[procon]

14. Ask instead; did Israel ever have any intention of returning the occupied territory?

It's valuable, productive land, rich in natural resources and capable of supporting thriving communities with an strong economic future. Under Israeli occupation it is become a security zone for the protection of colonies, and dependent on US turning a blind eye and supplying funds for military forces to keep Palestinians under control in their assigned ghettos and reservations.

Open a history book; these types of coercive policies never work, and so as long as there is oppression there will always be resistance.

[shira]

16. Both offers would have ended the occupation & settlements

Last edited Tue Feb 17, 2015, 04:11 PM - Edit history (1)

What's difficult about this?

The Palestinian leadership refused.

They obviously prefer the occupation and settlements over a peaceful 2-state solution.

So do their western BDS cheerleaders, who'd be lost if the conflict ended.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

21. Speaking if BDS, shira...

It is growing, and all the false labeling if the movement as anti-Semites will backfire in a Netanyahu kind if way.

I'm looking forward to it really.

[shira]

24. BDS supports neo-nazi fascists like Hamas.

BDS is a very dangerous, racist movement.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

28. You really need to get your phantoms under control.

BDS is a global movement that will rival the South African apartheid movement in time.

And like the old apartheidists of South Africa the new ones (illegal Israeli colonists) in the West Bank will be left holding their ass in their hands eventually.

But Godwin on if that is all you have in you.

[shira]

33. BDS supports genocidal Hamas. Enuff said. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

37. BDS is global, shira.

Last edited Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Only the willingly naive would believe that a global movement, with a growing chorus of voices, would have a such a sinister purpose.

I understand your fear, shira, but I do not condone your approval of illegal Israeli settlements.

Neither does the BDS movement.


On edit: corrected for atrocious spelling.

[shira]

44. Decent people don't support Hamas' war on the Jews, but BDS does.

BDS is a very dangerous movement that perpetuates war and bloodshed.

[azurnoir]

52. so it's not Israel Hamas is supposedly "at war" with it's Jews, like in Brooklyn or Minneapolis?

is that your claim?

[shira]

57. Both Israel and the Jews. It's in their charter. BDS supports Hamas' war. n/t

[azurnoir]

62. in reality there is no Hamas Charter anymore, there is something from the '80's

that the so called Pro-Israel set claims to be the the Hamas charter or my favorite covenant though, Hamas moved away from that '80's document years ago

[shira]

67. Bullshit. Here's video showing it's still relevant...

The Hamas representative says Israel has to end the occupation in order for Hamas to address that "sentence" about killing the Jews. See at 1:50....

[azurnoir]

69. He did no such thing in fact he said "we are not against Jews" he did not address the charter much

to the frustration of his ummm 'interviewer' who cut him off several times, because the Hamas guy was not saying what he wanted/needed to hear and finally ended the interview making his own claims

[shira]

73. LoL. Anyone can hear it for themselves. The charter is still obviously relevant....

....and BDS'ers support Hamas in its war aims against the Jews.

[azurnoir]

75. my point exactly anyone can view the video

Hamdan ignores the Hamas Charter claims entirely, as I said much to the frustration of his 'interviewer'

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

78. You should really stop with the dishonesty, shira.

I support the overall goals of BDS.

Am I a Hamas supporter? I have made it clear on several occasions that I do not.


You should really stop with the dishonesty, shira.

[shira]

86. You recently posted articles from Asa Wistanley & Yvonne Ridley...

Last edited Wed Feb 18, 2015, 10:00 AM - Edit history (1)

They are BDS activists who support Hamas in a big way.

========

If being a big Hamas supporter isn't what BDS is all about, then why are you constantly posting articles from these pro-Hamas mouthpieces?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

53. You're not being honest, shira.

[shira]

58. If u have something to say about honesty, go for it.

I could say the same for you.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

79. I did. You are being dishonest.

Decent people don't support Hamas' war on the Jews, but BDS does.

How big is BDS, shira?

How many people are turning to it's opinion of the Israeli apartheid state?


How many hasbaristas are lying about BDS out of fear that it is working?

[shira]

84. If BDS isn't Jew hating & pro-Hamas....

....why are the articles you link to written by folks who are pro-Hamas Jew haters?

You just linked yesterday from Yvonne Ridley:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113495618

A few days ago it was pro-Hamas Jew hater Asa Wistanley.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=95372

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

89. That's your opinion, shira.

IMHO, you take things out of context, cherry pick and call pretty much any criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic so your accusations aren't that credible.

[shira]

90. There's no question BDS'ers Ridley & Wistanley are Hamas supporters.

Are you actually denying that?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

91. Moving those goal posts again, shira.

You claimed BDS is "Jew-hating" and now you ate going to cherry pick?

[shira]

92. You make it too easy.

Last edited Wed Feb 18, 2015, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

You literally cannot post anything here from pro-BDS sources that are free from pro-Hamas, Jew-hating sentiment.

Which is my point.

BDS is racist, fascist garbage on the wrong side of history.

[shaayecanaan]

50. This article reproduces propaganda material from Regavim

a far right wing nationalist organisation active in the West Bank:-

http://972mag.com/rightist-groups-creeping-state-influence-on-both-sides-of-green-line/55149/

Regavim does not deal with settling the land with Jewish Israelis, but rather with the expulsion of the Palestinian population on both sides of the Green Line. The association is active in Area C of the West Bank, in the Negev, the Galilee and the “mixed cities.” In all of these arenas, Regavim has one clear goal: the brutal and selective implementation of planning and construction laws, encouraging the state to demolish Palestinian homes or public buildings. The demolition orders issued lately for the entire Palestinian village of Susya in the South Hebron Hills are the fruit of its labors.

In recent years, since the Israeli disengagement in the Gaza Strip and the dismantling of the settlements there, the extreme right in Israel has embarked on a campaign of settling the “mixed cities” of Israel (cities with sizable Arab and Jewish populations) by forming “Torah clusters” (Garinim Toraniim) – in Jaffa, Acco as well as Lod. At the same time, Jewish nationalist shows of force have escalated within Arab localities. Regavim is a characteristic expression of this wider campaign. It takes a considerable amount of cruelty to encourage the state to tighten even further the veritable noose of planning restrictions around the neck of Palestinian communities within the Green Line. Palestinian citizens of Israel own a very small percentage of the lands they had owned before 1948, most of their localities do not have master zoning plans, and the local and regional planning committees are staffed exclusively by Jewish Israelis.

[shira]

55. Irrelevant to the fact EU settlements are illegal in Area C. n/t

[azurnoir]

61. according to who? your OP claims "international law"

can't stick to your own subject? it was your comment

[shira]

64. Oslo is law, signed onto by the EU and Palestinians. Area C is under Israeli admin.

Israeli law applies to Area C.

[azurnoir]

66. nothing in Oslo says Israeli law applies in Area C seems you confuse administration with sovereign

nor does Oslo give Israel the right to colonize Area C and Oslo had a 5 year time limit that ran out 16 years ago

[shira]

72. Israel has full administration & authority in Area C. The EU cannot....

...build any structures it wants without permission in any other nation on the planet.

Illegal.

===============

Oslo is still going on, BTW. It's why the PA still exists in its form, administering areas A and B.

[azurnoir]

74. again you confuse administration with sovereign Israel has administrative duties not sovereign law

[shira]

77. Oslo (Int. Law) gives only Israel the authority to build homes, assign permits in Area C. n/t

[azurnoir]

81. Oslo gives Israel permission to carry out it's colonization project? Please cite that passage for us

[shaayecanaan]

82. You're absolutely correct

The law that applies in the West Bank is not Israeli law but Jordanian law, being the law in force when the Palestinian territories were first occupied by Israel. This isn't disputed:-

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Legal-confusion-Why-does-Israel-accept-Jordanian-law-346603

The areas in question involve land which the Jordanian land register recognises as belonging to Palestinian citizens. It is not necessary for Palestinians to apply for permission to build dwelling structures upon these lands as the relevant Jordanian laws do not require planning approval for that type of construction in that area.

Most planning law systems recognise certain land uses for which it is not necessary to obtain planning approval. For instance, in my jurisdiction I can build a boundary fence of up to six feet in height without obtaining planning approval. Arab laws can often be more lassez-faire than Western laws in terms of planning requirements, particularly in provincial areas such as the West Bank.

It is absolutely false to say that this construction is illegal according to international law.

[Israeli]

83. Do you get the connection ....

between this OP and this one shaayecanaan :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113495453

Its Regavim and Benny Katzover .

All roads lead back to Gush Emunim and to Elon Moreh.

The history of the modern settlement named for Biblical Elon Moreh started in the mid-1970s when a group led by Rabbi Menachem Felix and Benny Katzover organized a pioneering group of dozens of families called Garin Elon Moreh in order to found a settlement in the Shechem area. Eight times, the group tried to choose a plot of land to settle but the Israeli government under Yitzchak Rabin, then in his first term, prevented these attempts - arguing that the settlers' main aim was to secure permanent Israeli possession of the territory and that such possession would preclude any possibility of peace with Jordan or a Palestinian state. However, Shimon Peres - then Defence Minister - was accused of clandestinely helping the settlers as part of his ongoing power struggle with Rabin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Moreh

And to this :

Settlers Defend Goebbels-Like Video Incitement

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2015/02/15/settler-video-producers-defend-nazi-like-incitement/

Dear friends, we’ve heard all the voices dissing us in the media today. We’re not surprised. We wanted to arouse public debate over what we see as self-destruction. Sometimes you have to do this in a way that forces people to look and listen to you.

We see thousands of Palestinian buildings being constructed illegally on State land and funded by anti-Semites [the EU]. We hear about investigations of defense ministry officials throughout the world and at the Hague. We see daily harassment by radical Leftists against our soldiers. We see bullying propaganda by the radical Left against settlements.

bibi netanyahu inciting rabin's murder
In image: Bibi Netanyahu (middle), a noose and the casket (just over Bibi’s head)
Some do this out of ideology. Some out of greed. All of them are causing the world to harass us. Calls for boycott against Israel are increasing and delegitimization echoes everywhere.

When we turn to the world and ask: what have you learned? We hear back: “Look, Jews are saying this [supporting boycotts]. It can’t be anti-Semitism.” In this way, the poison seeps throughout. Through self-hatred, the radical Left will bring us all to self-destruction.

There is nothing in the video which was meant to incite against one group or another. It’s an attempt to show those who have been blinded by the caress of foreign money how he [sic] is really seen by his “patron.”

We Shomron settlers do not intend to remain quiet about delegitimization. We will remain here always to arouse our people. We simply love our land.

[shaayecanaan]

85. The language does seem incredibly familiar (nt)

[Israeli]

93. Very familiar ;) (nt)

[FarrenH]

87. Did I miss something? AFAIK the EU is not a signatory to the Oslo accords

[shira]

88. Under Oslo II from 1995. The EU is a signatory. It's binding Int'l Law. n/t