Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumEhud Barak: BDS is developing, Israel liable to a boycott
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/16256-ehud-barak-bds-is-developing-israel-liable-to-a-boycottBarak also commented on the situation on US campuses, noting that "35 years ago, the universities were bastions of sympathy for Israel." Today, however, "you come to a university and you're told in advance whether there will be a demonstration."
These groups are quantitatively negligible, but in terms of their essence, they are the future leadership of the United States and of the world. It's a gradual trend, but it's sliding toward a tipping point, and at the end of that tipping point awaits a slope or, heaven forbid, an abyss.
Levelling heavy criticism at the Netanyahu government, Barak said Israel's isolation was very much a possibility.
BDS.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Most of the Western European nations are now openly opposing Israeli policies. The US is slowly starting to shift, but it will take more time.
If Israel stays on the Likudnik path, Israel's isolation is inevitable.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)they will set the cause back years and years.
Because people will just hate the Muslims, Arab nations, the Persians and keep their stereotypes of them alive like other scapegoats from the past.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)The Wahabbi jihadis want their caliphate, not a free Palestine.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)to remove motivation to a lot of Muslims to use violence against Israel and the West.
If they want to fight amongst themselves for a Caliphate, let them have at it.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)there are puppet masters on both sides that use violence to prevent peace. It is easy to move people to violence if they feel their religion is being insulted, their people abused and threatened, or their "God-given" holy land denied to them. Then the cause isn't peace, but revenge and punishing the other side.
Israeli
(4,151 posts)....you should try and read it in full .....its long .
Its soooooo Barak ........his ego just jumps from the written page .
Here is the link :
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.635978
Anhow with regard to the Palestinians and to BDS this is what he said : .....
Question : " Where do you think Netanyahus passivity on the Palestinian issue will lead? " ....
In the end, passivity and avoidance of taking action lead to something being imposed on you that is far less good than what you could have achieved. And there is always the considerable danger that you will cross, without sensing it, the point of no return, and when you snap out of it and really want the previous situation back, it will simply not be possible, you will slide down a slippery slope. We saw examples of this in the last century in a neighboring continent in South Africa during the apartheid years. It may have been Mark Twain who once said, History doesnt repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
We have been ruling another nation for 47 years. We are ignoring the fact that the situation has changed in the international arena. The leaders and the people themselves dont remember the circumstances and the struggle under which the State of Israel emerged. There are no leaders or publics in the world who remember the Holocaust as a personal experience. What theyve seen for decades is the reversal of the image that accompanied Israel. Its not David and his slingshot being threatened by Goliath.
What registers in the consciousness is the Palestinian youth who is symbolically using Davids weapon against Israelis who are armed to the teeth inside tanks, and with missiles and so forth. That image is becoming embedded in the public consciousness abroad. In the 21st century, there is no chance of maintaining over time a situation that will be accepted by the international community in which Israel continues to rule those millions of people and does not allow them to vote for the Knesset.
Question" When will the day come when the world will treat us as it treated F.W. de Klerk in South Africa?" ......
It will come. It will come. Its a slippery slope, and on that slippery slope we are marching in the direction of one state for two nations. The feeling thats taking shape internationally is that Israel doesnt really have the intention that the critical mass of the Israeli leadership has reached the conclusion that there is no reasonable two-nation solution that can guarantee Israel security, and that it has no alternative but to continue holding on to the entire territory and grant them autonomous rights. And [we think that] because we have no alternative, the world will be compelled to accept that.
In fact, all these assumptions are groundless, its just due to the absence of an assertive discourse. The world wont buy it. Its just an illusion. That idea will be repulsed brutally by our best friends. At a certain stage, it might be possible to hide that intention by means of speeches at Tel Hai College, or a speech at the University of Haifa, after your Bar-Ilan University speech. So there will be a couple of more speeches, which will generate ambiguity for a time, but the international community is becoming disillusioned, and it will follow a course we have seen [elsewhere]. I deliberately do not want to mention the name of what happened in another continent.
Question " The apartheid regime [in South Africa] collapsed under the strain of a world economic boycott. Do you discern the same approach developing in our case? "....
Gradual processes of Israels delegitimization are occurring below the surface. The BDS movement is developing. Its name is derived from the movement that finally brought about the collapse of South Africa, which was economically and militarily stronger than the whole of sub-Saharan Africa together, but could not keep standing because it could not withstand international isolation. As long as those voices against Israel came from Eritrea or Mauritania, fine; when they start to come from Scandinavia and Britain, its a serious problem. Look at Israels standing in the community of labor organizations worldwide its a very grim situation. That will continue with consumer organizations, pension funds, the universities.
Question " Have you yourself encountered this movement? " ....
I give many talks at American universities, and I can make a comparison with the past, because I also gave talks on campuses 10 years ago, and I was a student in the United States 35 years ago. Then, 35 years ago, the universities were bastions of sympathy for Israel. Today, you come to a university and youre told in advance whether there will be a demonstration or there wont be a demonstration of the opposite orientation.
These groups are quantitatively negligible, but in terms of their essence, they are the future leadership of the United States and of the world. Its a gradual trend, but its sliding toward a tipping point, and at the end of that tipping point awaits a slope or, heaven forbid, an abyss.
Source : http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.635978
bemildred
(90,061 posts)He thinks he sees an opening.
What is happening here is the taboo on the Palestinian narrative is breaking down. It is not unrelated to the the general failure of our political system. When the government loses its legitimacy, the people start treating it as an alien force. Bummer.
Israeli
(4,151 posts)...they are all jumping at a chance for a second chance right now ....or a third or a fourth
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)And you still think it's something to brag about? Truly obscene.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Israel keeps radicalizing the Muslims. That doesn't justify the terrorist acts but it clearly plays a part in the radical factions getting lunatics to act out.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)The blame game has become boorish.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)They are dead.
It is totally disingenuous to dismiss this as "the blame game". Terrorism doesn't occur in a vacuum. The Israeli occupation remains the MAJOR sore point in fomenting terrorism against the both Israel and the West.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)When will Islamic terrorist and them alone be held accountable for their actions?
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Should be on trial at the Hague?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)I do think Bush and Cheney should be at the Hague. Possibly Barak as well if he ordered some of the crimes in Gaza.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)no matter who they are. Right?