Hamas prevents Gaza children from touring Israel on trip meant to foster peace

[oberliner]

GAZA, Gaza Strip -- Gaza's Hamas rulers prevented a group of children from entering Israel on Sunday for a postwar conciliatory trip meant to foster peace, Hamas and organizers said.

The 37 children, most of whom have lost a parent in fighting between Hamas and Israel, were to enter Israel on Sunday and spend a week visiting Jewish and Arab communities, a zoo, and travel to the West Bank for a meeting with the Palestinian president.

But a bus carrying the children and their adult chaperones was turned back when it reached the main crossing between Israel and Gaza.

Hamas spokesman Eyad Bozum said the decision to bar the children's entry was made "to protect the culture of our children and our people" from normalizing relations with Israel. He said Hamas would make sure such a trip "will never happen again."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/hamas-prevents-gaza-children-from-touring-israel-on-trip-meant-to-foster-peace-1.2164055#ixzz3NCOXHY4f

[Fred Sanders]

2. And since Palestinian children lost 100 times more parents than Israelies did.....More propaganda to

dehumanize so as to justify...age old shit.

[oberliner]

3. You have no idea what you are talking about

This initiative is lead by Israeli peace activists who vehemently oppose the war and seek to humanize as much as possible. This is an organization that sent 40 truckloads of aid into Gaza during the war and had previously hosted a small number of Palestinian orphans.

[Fred Sanders]

4. I know Israeli children should be visiting the grave sites of 400 Gaza children killed recently.....

a trip of unimaginable mourning impossible for anyone in Palestine or Gaza to reciprocate, of course.

Even once.

[oberliner]

5. I don't think Israeli or Palestinian children should be visiting graves

I think any charitable group who wants to do anything positive to help Palestinian children ought to be encouraged to do so. This group was not taking children to graves - they were taking them to the park and to the zoo and to meet the Palestinian president.

I think Israeli charitable groups in particular have a responsibility to do everything they can to help those children in whatever limited way they are permitted to do so.

[King_David]

8. Really ?

I don't think you have much experience in working with children if that's what you think.
Best not consider employment in that field.

[procon]

6. I can't even fathom the audacity.

These were war orphans whose parents were killed by Israel in Gaza this year. Why would anyone agree to hand off these kids to the same occupying forces that killed their parents, and then allow them to be used as stage props to churn out Israeli political propaganda.

[oberliner]

7. This is a charity group that is not connected to the Israeli government

They are a group of peace activists who vehemently opposed the war. They are trying to do something positive for some of the children of Gaza, with the support of the Palestinian Authority. I am not fathoming how anyone could oppose something like this. Would you oppose a group of American peace activists organizing a trip for Iraqi and Afghani children?

[procon]

9. How does that change anything?

Evan the organizer said "the visit was meant to a show a positive side of Israel". How does that benefit children who must live in refugee camps because of Israel's not-so-positive policies? Even is this is a legitimate charity and they have a verified list of good works, this idea to exploit vulnerable kids as propaganda tools to buff up Israel's public image was an epic fail.

[oberliner]

10. "this idea to exploit vulnerable kids as propaganda tools to buff up Israel's public image..."

This idea only exists in your head.

This is a group of Israeli left-wing peace activists, including Palestinian citizens of Israel, who actively opposed the war in Gaza along with Israel's other not-so-positive policies wanting to do something good for some children who were impacted by those policies.

They received permission from all parties involved (including Hamas, who changed their mind at the last minute) to take a group of children to the beach, the zoo, and to various communities in Israel in an effort to give them a positive experience and to help let them know that not all Israelis support those government policies.

This group, and others like them, have done similar things in the past with little to no fanfare. It's just one small positive thing that some anti-war Israelis can do for some Palestinian children.

[procon]

11. I'll rephrase:

Even with the best of intentions, that trip would have done nothing to change their plight of those kids or improve their situation. It's not it a "good" thing to take orphans out of their squalid refugee camp in the midst of a war zone just to show them how nice their oppressors live, that's a propaganda stunt. What were they supposed to take away from that excursion... maybe a souvenir from an Israeli settlement on occupied Palestinian land or a commemorative photo of caged zoo animals?

[oberliner]

14. OK

Just seemed like something positive for those kids - I think the peace activists meant well. The PA supported the initiative and even Hamas did at first, but I guess you agree with Hamas's decision to not allow this to occur, which is your prerogative.

[procon]

17. Well that was weak.

When your entire argument becomes indefensible when you're reduced to tossing out incendiary potshots.Look, even if the sponsoring group meant well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

By notifying the Israeli press in advance of the tour, these poor, orphaned kids would have been put on public display and used like pawns to be paraded around to Israeli-occupied West Bank and towns in Israel hit by Gaza rockets. The whole thing reeks of a propaganda stunt.

Hamas states they revoked the the travel permit because they thought Israel wants to exploit these children. I'm not so blind or shackled by my prejudices that I can't see the obvious, therefore, yes, I concur with Hamas' decision to put the welfare of the children first, and cancel the photo op.

[oberliner]

34. What were the incendiary potshots?

You've made your position clear, and I respectfully disagree. I am not making any argument, as I realize we view this differently. I just don't know what the incendiary potshots are that you reference. I have tried to be cordial in this discussion in spite of my surprise at your perspective.

[azurnoir]

12. well does the charity have to connected to the government for the trip to be exploited?

Eyad Al-Bozom, spokesman for the interior ministry in Gaza, said the children had been stopped from crossing into Israel “to preserve the culture and tradition of our people” and because they were slated to visit “suspicious” sites. He did not elaborate. Malek Freij, director of the charity Candle for Peace which was also named on the children’s Israeli military-issued entry permit, said he and fellow organisers had sent 40 truckloads of aid into Gaza during the war and had previously hosted a small number of Palestinian orphans.

He said that this time, advance Israeli media reports of the children’s planned visit apparently led Hamas to cancel it.

“They (Gaza authorities) thought that Israel wants to exploit these children, and that’s a mistake,” Freij said next to the empty bus awaiting the group on the Israeli side of the Gaza border.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/28/hamas-childrens-visit-gaza-border-blocks

[oberliner]

13. No it doesn't

Do you also think Hamas was right to not allow this trip to occur?

[azurnoir]

15. I'm not altogether sure the trip was well timed it's been 4 months since OPE ended

and perhaps that's too soon for this sort of thing no matter how well intentioned it may be

[oberliner]

35. Everybody involved seemed ok with the timing including Hamas

They initially signed off to the plan as well and changed their mind at the last minute.

[shira]

16. Gotta love all the BDS apologists here for Hamas propaganda...

Security forces prevented 37 children of martyrs from entering the land occupied in 1948 for a suspicious visit to a number of settlements and occupied cities,” wrote Hamas Interior Ministry spokesman Iyad Al-Bozom on Facebook Sunday. “This move came in order to safeguard our children’s education and protect them from the policy of normalization.”

Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bars-gaza-war-orphans-from-entering-israel/#ixzz3NIat6eh7

Fact: BDS is against any normalization b/w Palestinians and Israelis.

It's no surprise that BDS'ers here fully support Hamas barring Gazan children from being with Israelis who are among the most sympathetic to Palestinians and their needs.

What we see here is the ugly, twisted and depraved anti-Zionist (and post-Zionist) BDS version of "peace". They want the war to continue until Hamas gets what they want.

[procon]

18. Isn't the whole concept of "normalization" a controversial propaganda message in itself?

Seriously, There is nothing remotely "normal" about any oppressed people who are forced to live under military occupation, watching their lands being colonized and subjected to the unjust inequality of apartheid?

The primary goal of “normalization” appears to be buffing up Israel's public image. It's an effort to whitewash the brutal reality of oppression and try to convince the world that the beleaguered people in Palestine must accept the status quo as "normal" and just pretend that living as 2nd class citizens under apartheid is better than no life at all.

[shira]

22. Yes, yes. Shame on any Israeli peace-activists sympathetic to Palestinian kids...

Seeing something sinister in every move an Israeli makes towards a Palestinian is IMHO racist.

Imagine your opponents seeing evil in everything Palestinians do in order to foster better relations b/w the 2 people.

You're doing that.

[procon]

26. More name calling?

Don't worry, I'm not going to reciprocate, but there must be a better argument to support your contention than just throwing out terms like, "racist". As a debate tactic, you must know how that ends.

I'm more interested in the backstory, like who notified the Israeli media in advance of the children’s planned visit, turning whatever good intentions those Israeli peace-activists might have had, into a media circus at the expense of war orphans. That was just so wrong.

[azurnoir]

19. Fact Israel has twice rejected normalization with the Arab League

via the Arab Peace Initiative even after the Kerry induced changes

however after reading your IMO rather overwrought descriptions of post zionists anti-zionists and bds supporters I must ask do you go through many of these?

[procon]

20. Gosh, so many inflammatory labels to choose from.

Seriously, name calling does not support your contention. I'd rather calmly examine why the lop-sided mantra of "Israel-good, Palestinians-bad" even exists when there is no actual basis for any such claim in reality.

[azurnoir]

21. Huh? please explain I pointed out that Israel has twice rejected the Arab Peace Initiative

which it has without a doubt even after John Kerry worked with the Arab League to make revisions

[procon]

23. It's far more complicated than that.

Even the State Department played down Kerry’s initial talk of any normalization taking place. It was never going to happen anyway, but the US has a very long and well documented history of facilitating and then capitalizing on the shifting political factions of Middle East.

Israel was never going to agree to a proposal that required the withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967. The pro-Israeli supporters pilloried Kerry after he criticized the increasing settlement building and warned that "Israel is on the verge of becoming an Apartheid state". Despite the opportunistic outrage, the denials will not change the status quo until the occupation ends.

[azurnoir]

24. The revised plan did not require Israeli withdrawal from all territories occupied in 1967

that was part of the revision

Qatar’s foreign minister had suggested the revival of the Arab Peace Initiative, introduced in 2002, and for the first time eased its demand that Israel return to its pre-1967 borders. Instead, the minister accepted the possibility of tweaking those borders with a comparable and mutually agreed “minor swap of the land.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/01/world/middleeast/kerry-welcomes-arab-plan-for-israeli-palestinian-talks.html?_r=0

[shira]

25. Abbas rejected the Kerry/Obama plan. Israel did not....

Netanyahu was willing to keep negotiating even though he didn't like everything he saw in that plan.

Abbas refused.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/24/opinion/roger-cohen-why-israeli-palestinian-peace-failed.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&_r=2

Read it and weep.

Your propaganda is stale.

[azurnoir]

27. Netanyahu reneged on the prisoner release agreement that was part and parcel to the negotiations

I don't need anyone's opinion especially when the facts will do just fine

[shira]

28. Yeah, it was terrible he wanted negotiations to continue....

....in exchange for the release of all those terrorists.

Israel had good reason to release that 4th batch on condition the Palestinians would continue negotiating.

Abbas was up to his old tricks of doing nothing to work towards a peaceful settlement. He wanted the terrorists freed for zero in return.

I'm not surprised you're defending that.

[azurnoir]

31. Netanyahu agreed to the prisoner release plan

sorry if he changed his mind

edit my confusion between Netanyahu he/his and Israel it/it's

[procon]

29. I wonder if you read the entire you article cited?

Yes, Qatar’s foreign minister did indeed present that possibility, but he also notes that "The Arab League delegation affirms that agreement should be based on the two-state solution, on the basis of the 4th of June 1967 line”... Additionally the article you offered also notes that Palestine wants "Israel’s acceptance of the two-state solution based on the 1967 borders."

Since this offshoot is well beyond the context of the original topic, I'll leave you to carry on as you will.

[azurnoir]

30. yes based on the 6/4/67 borders which BTW is the same as what the POTUS has been saying

this has indeed been an interesting exchange especially when I read your prior posts on this thread

[procon]

32. azurnoir, I believe I owe you an apology

I unintentionally responded to you earlier, when my comment was intended for another poster in this thread. I only now realized my mistake and hope you will forgive my error.

Yes, to be sure, it was an interesting exchange.

[azurnoir]

33. Thanks that's kind of what I thought

couldn't figure it out no problem