UN asks Israel to pay Lebanon $850 M for oil spill

[Eugene]

Source: Associated Press

UN asks Israel to pay Lebanon $850 M for oil spill

AP foreign, Saturday December 20 2014

By EDITH M. LEDERER

Associated Press= UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. General Assembly overwhelmingly approved a resolution Friday asking Israel to pay Lebanon over $850 million in damages for an oil spill caused by an Israeli air force attack on oil storage tanks during its war with Hezbollah in July 2006.

The assembly voted 170-6 in favor of the resolution, with three abstentions. Israel, the United States, Canada, Australia, Micronesia and Marshall Islands voted "no."

General Assembly resolutions are not legally binding but they do reflect world opinion.

The resolution says "the environmental disaster" caused by the destruction of the tanks resulted in an oil slick that covered the entire Lebanese coastline and extended to the Syrian coastline, causing extensive pollution.

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Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/feedarticle/11698633

[Scootaloo]

1. it's TOTALLY unfair to ask Israel to pay for damages it caused!

[King_David]

2. Of course Israel is always wrong no matter what

With 6 people in this group.

I never bothered reading the OP--- just an observation.

[Scootaloo]

7. Well, Israel DID bomb the oil tanks

The ecological damage caused to Lebanon - and Syria - as a result is Israel's liability.

[Dick Dastardly]

6. Those pesky Israelis not only think they have a right to defend themselves.

but to top it off they don't think they should have to pay for damages they caused against those responsible.

What unmitigated gall they have.

[Scootaloo]

8. Ecological and chemical warfare is a form of defense against non-state actors?

You're going to have to explain how fouling Lebanon and Syria's shores provided a defensive measure agaisnt anyone, much less Hezbollah.

[grossproffit]

3. *yawn*

[shira]

4. Sure, as soon as the UN demands Lebanon pay for rocket damage in Israel....

...incurred during the same time when Hezbollah thought it was a good idea to ambush IDF soldiers and kidnap them.

The UN will make sure this happens.

In the year 3046.

[Scootaloo]

9. So Hezbollah is equal in station to the Israel Defense Forces?

So... they're not a terrorist organization? Or are you saying that the IDF is?

[shira]

10. I should've written Lebanon is responsible for damage in Israel. n/t

[Scootaloo]

12. No, I got what you are saying

It's just that what you are saying is very stupid.

The IDF is the recognized military of the state of israel. it is under the direct authority of the Israeli government, which is in turn elected by hte Israeli people.

Hezbollah is a paramilitary force that is not tied to the Lebanese government, is under no government control or authority, and its management entertains no say from the Lebanese people.

If you really want to compare Israel's military to a criminal organization, in order to excuse something the Israeli military did, well... you go ahead.

[oberliner]

13. "Hezbollah is a paramilitary force that is not tied to the Lebanese government...."

Can you possibly believe these things that you type?

Do you not know that Hezbollah is part of the governing coalition in Lebanon?

[Scootaloo]

42. Hezbollah is not the Lebanese military, and does not answer to the Lebanese government

it is a paramilitary force that is controlled by a criminal organization that does happen to have some members openly in the Lebanese government.

You do understand the distinction here, right?

[branford]

15. I want whatever you're smoking . . .

"Hezbollah is a paramilitary force that is not tied to the Lebanese government, is under no government control or authority, and its management entertains no say from the Lebanese people" ???

What unmitigated delusional garbage!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah_political_activities


However, I'm both shocked and gratified that you acknowledge that Hezbollah is a criminal organization.

[azurnoir]

17. Are you selling us that Hezbollahs military arm is part of the Lebanese military?

because that is news to me

It should be noted that the EU, the UK, New Zealand , and Australia consider only Hezbollah's military wing to be terrorist not so it's social and political wings but rest assured Bahrain considers all of Hezbollah as terrorist

[shira]

20. LoL. Yet more BS that Hezbollah's political & military wings....

...have nothing to do with each other.

You can't seriously believe that, right?

[azurnoir]

23. is Hezbollahs military wing part of Lebanese military?

as to the rest tell it to the EU

[shira]

25. Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government. But look at you....

....trying to take all responsibility away from Lebanon.

You do that with Hamas in Gaza as well.

Only Israel is responsible for having the NERVE to defend against criminal, scumbag aggressors out to murder random Jews.

[azurnoir]

26. Not answering my question is Hebollah's military wing part of the Lebanese military?

Did the Lebanese government approve of or order the single attack on 2 Israeli soldiers to which Israel responded by killing almost 1200 Lebanese civilians?

your need to resort to attack and accusations once again is noted

[Just for Fun]

57. Ahem. I can answer that question

Hezbollah has always been a part of Lebanese government, hell, the government is Hezbollah.

So that's the end of your theories, and do please come up with proof saying so.

Shira has that right to ignore you because you're already pro-Palestine, and there's nothing we can say to you otherwise.

You bring shame to the Palestinian people.

[shaayecanaan]

60. so Hezbollah forces are now government forces?

and all this time I thought you were saying that they were an illegal militia that had to be disbanded.

[hack89]

62. An illegal militia controlled by the dominant party in the government

is the more accurate discription.

[azurnoir]

65. ???????? was that one to me??????????

[shaayecanaan]

70. sorry, no. was meant for shira nt

[Scootaloo]

44. See my response to Oberliner above

You cannot compare Hezbollah to the IDF without either elevating Hezbollah or lowering the IDF.

[shira]

19. IOW, Israel isn't allowed to self-defend against aggressive criminal forces....

Not Hamas, not Hezbollah.

And Lebanon isn't even responsible for Hezbollah at all, even though Hezbollah is and has been part of the government?

This is why your views are off the chains fringe.

[Scootaloo]

36. I'm still not sure how coating Lebanon's shore in oil is a defensive measure.

Can you explain that to me?

[shira]

38. Who knows what happened there. Hezbollah could've shot missiles from that area.

Do you have any idea what REALLY, REALLY happened there?

=========

The bottom line is that you and yours make ALL Israeli self-defense against terrorist aggression illegal.

Whether it's Hamas or Hezbollah from another country, it doesn't matter.

=========

Can u imagine what the UK, USA, France, or any other western nation would do in response to hundreds of missiles raining down on their population centers?

Do you think ANY western nation would respond more appropriately to such aggression than Israel?

Please answer this, or don't respond at all.

[Scootaloo]

40. No, the bottom line is that Israel's actions polluted the shores of two nations

And you call this "defense." Now, I'm going to need you to explain that to me.

[shira]

45. If there were missiles fired from that area, Israel has a right to take.....

....those terrorists and their missile launchers out.

It's well known that Hezbollah deliberately fired away from populated areas. International Law does not prohibit Israel from defending against such attacks.

And you didn't answer me. Why?

[Scootaloo]

51. Because I'm trying to stay on-topic, Shira. That's why

Israel fired on these tanks of oil. As a result, there was an oil slick that stretched along the coast of Lebanon, up into Syria.

Was that israel's intention? Almost certainly not - your claism if it being "defensive" notwithstanding. Did Israel have a legitimate target there? I don't know, and when Israel says "there was a guy on the roof!" it sounds a lot like the Ferguson PD saying "He reached for his waistband!" - but let's buy your assumption that there was, indeed, a valid target amid those tanks. The strike blew up the tanks and spread their contents far beyond the area of that target, polluting the environment, and affecting people far, far away from that hypothetical "Guy On The Roof." They deserve to suffer for that hypothetical dude?

It's not an issue of Israel being right or wrong, it's an issue of Israel's responsibility. And it was Israel's action that cuased this, unintentionally though it pretty certainly was. Chipping in dough to clean it up, or to help defray costs if it'salready been cleaned up, relly isn't a whole lot to ask. Hell, we demand that of oil companies when the weather knocks their shit around, and nobody is going to argue that shell or BP control hurricanes.

[shira]

53. Wait. So you're saying even if it was a legitimate strike by the IDF.....

....that they are still responsible, and not Hezbollah?

I'd say the majority of the cost, if not all, is on Hezbollah.

Otherwise, all aggressive wars turn into bullshit. Why not have terrorists strike at any country, wait for them to defend and then make them foot the bill for damages incurred b/c of their human-shielding strategy which guarantees civilian infrastructure will be hit?

That's bullshit.

I don't see how Israel's to blame. And if so, what a HORRIBLE precedent for the future.

[Scootaloo]

54. Both would hold responsibility in that case

However, all we know is that Israel fired on the tanks. We don't know the circumstances, we just know the result. And that result is an oil slick contaminating two nations, resulting from an Israeli airstrike. If it was indeed defensive, proportionality comes up - as I pointed out, lots of people are affected who are not the target, even people in a country that was uninvolved in the conflict

Again, it's not about blame. It's not about right or wrong. It's about environmental damage caused by Israel's airstrikes, that is beyond the scope of the specific conflict. You think hezbollah's gonna chip up for it? Even if the UN had any pull on the organization? Lebanon sure as hell can't muscle them into paying. If nothing else an offer to defray costs from it would be a gesture of goodwill from Israel.

[shira]

64. No they wouldn't. Israel cannot "chip in" & therefore reward Hamas.....

....for firing missiles into Israel's cities while in close proximity to civilian infrastructure.

[shaayecanaan]

61. you obviously have a problem with Lebanese self-defence

you don't even think that Lebanese are entitled to shoot at Israeli forces that invade Lebanese territory.

Can you even bring yourself to admit that Lebanon has the same right to self defence that Israel does?

[shira]

63. If Israel takes aggressive measures against Lebanon for no reason at all....

...of course Lebanon has a right to self-defense.

But we both know what self-defense means to you....and that's 100's if not 1000's of missiles aimed for Israel's dense population centers.

They should target the IDF, not civilians.

[Dick Dastardly]

5. Utter nonsense. Israel owes them nothing.

Lebanon should be paying Israel for damages caused by Hezbollah.

[azurnoir]

11. so we're essentially being told by some here that Israel is less responsible for it's actions than

any number of oil corporations, IMO that's setting a pretty low bar especially for a nuclear armed country

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

14. Israel is never responsible for any of the carnage

that it causes. Pointing out Israeli abuses only means that the ones pointing it out must in some way be anti-Semites...or so a king of comedy has told me.

[shira]

18. Yeah, yeah....Israel abused Lebanon by defending from Hezbollah's aggression.

HOW DARE THEY?

I get that you don't think Israel EVER has a right to self-defense, and in the event they have to respond they should ALWAYS be charged falsely of war crimes.

That's ALWAYS the game plan, isn't it?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

35. Was Hizbollah bombing Israel with oil?

[shira]

37. Look at you, with all these silly deflections. Just say it please.....

Lebanon and Hezbollah are in no way responsible for any damage incurred in their war against Israel in 2006.

Humor me.

Or fold.

[shira]

16. Lebanon started the war. They should be accountable for even more....

.....damages they caused to Israel in 2006.

[azurnoir]

22. Hezbollahs military wing started the conflict with a single terrorist attack Israel responded

with the Dahiya doctrine an insidious plan by which nothing in the way of infrastructure of any kind is considered as civilian, making at least for Israel and its 'supporters' everything game, water, electricity, sanitation, hospital, schools, literally almost anything including civilian housing

We saw a reenactment of this in Gaza this past summer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

[shira]

24. Hezbollah's military & political wing are one and the same....

Just as the Kach political and military wings were the same.

If you can't acknowledge that, there's nothing more to discuss.

[azurnoir]

27. why is there nothing to discuss I'm willing and again is Hexbollahs military wing

part of the Lebanese military, you seem somewhat hesitant to answer, why?

[shira]

28. No they're not. So Lebanon is not accountable for Hezbollah's war in 2006? n/t

[azurnoir]

30. Did the government of Lebanon order or in any way approve of Hezbollahs attack on 2 IDF soldiers?

[shira]

33. Don't know. What's known is they didn't do anything to stop it, or apologize to Israel....

.....for something they couldn't prevent.

They didn't call on Israel to finish off Hezbollah due to Lebanon being unable to do so.

====================

Lastly, Hezbollah DEFINITELY was part of the Lebanese government in 2006 and represents EVEN MORE of it today. The Lebanese government is not guiltless by any standard.

====================

Question for you now:

If Kach continued to carry out attacks against people in another country - and were never put in their place by the GOI - would you hold only Kach responsible, or Israel as well?

[Scootaloo]

39. Lebanon's military isn't actually able to stop it

Seriously Shira, by now you ought to know how Lebanon works - or, at least, ought to know that it doesn't work. There's a reason that the Lebanese military doesn't get involved between israel and hezbollah. There's a reason the Lebanese military stood down for both Israeli invasions and the Syrian occupation. it's because by constitution the Lebanese military is roughly on par with most pacific island states'. it's weak by design, in order to prevent the possibility of military coups by one of the constitutionally-provided government factions.

basically the only function of the Lebanese military is to model the uniforms. And they do it very well, so far as I can see.

For more information on Lebanon, please read the following article - it's satire, but it still, ahem, "nails it"

Proclaiming his group’s “enduring desire to invade and occupy Beirut,” he emphasized, however, that ISIS “will invade once the conditions are acceptable. First, we must be assured that Lebanese state institutions and traditional communal leadership positions are restored, fully functional, and running efficiently. Second, we need somebody to help us figure out how to oust non-existent state institutions from power while securing the support of all of your patriarchs, sheikhs, beiks, and khalilyeh yeiks.”


“Our religio-political experts have advised us that we must respect ‘communal coexistence’ for our coup to be legitimate,” explained Ibn-Jahshein. “Apparently, we must overthrow all three of Lebanon’s presidents—Maronite, Sunni, and Shiite; remove all Grade One civil servants; treat Muslim and Christian parliamentarians with equal scorn and disrespect; and somehow locate, apprehend, and neutralize the half-dozen neo-feudal leaders—and their biological and ideological scions—whose influence extends throughout and beyond the formal institutions that we’d just bomb to bits.”


“We do not yet understand the Logic of Lebanon. Your president must be a Maronite; but you can’t seem to find one that knows how to put his pants on properly! Your prime minister must be a Sunni, so long as he answers to a political boss thousands of miles away—one who doesn’t seem to be able to put his pants on properly either. And, then, not that we care about them, you have the Shiites controlling the Speakership of Parliament. Some closet pro-Western lawyer kow-towing to a Party of God that has already claimed all the goddamn virgins in the next life.”


“I mean,” Ibn-Jahshein hissed, scanning an organizational chart of the Lebanese state, prominent political parties, feudal families, local bosses, religious leaders, garden-variety thugs, ambassadors, other foreign participants, and pop-up nongovernmental organizations and consultancies. “Who the fuck do we overthrow around here?”
https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/diasporadiaries/560593-isis-coup-delayed-for-communal-coexistence

[shira]

46. That's a complete non-response to my post. Try again? n/t

[hack89]

21. Bad things happen when you start wars. Nt

[azurnoir]

29. so killing 2 soldiers justifies the deaths nearly 1200 civilians?

is that what you're telling us?

[hack89]

31. When you hide your military infrastructure in civilian areas and kidnap Israeli soldiers

Then bad things happen. It is also a war crime. Are you telling us that human shields and kidnapping are justified?

[azurnoir]

32. sigh according to the Dahiya doctrine everything is militay nothing is civilian

that includes water electricity sanitation roads schools hospitals and even what most would ay is civilian housing but thanks you answered my initial question nicely

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

[hack89]

34. I was thinking more of bunkers and weapon storage under houses

But you knew that.

It is pretty simple - if you don't attack Israel and kill/kidnap their soldiers then you won't get your ass handed to you. One day Hamas and Hezbollah will figure that out.

[azurnoir]

41. so 1200 dead civilians in Lebanon and 1600 dead civilians in Gaza this summer alone

is Hezbollah and Hamas getting their respective ass's handed to them? -I could not have asked for a better testimonial

thank you

[hack89]

43. I know to you naked aggression is merely "resistence"

and that Israels only legitimate response to violence is to give Hamas and Hezbollah everything they want so that no civilians are killed.

You live in a fantasy land - what else can be said. If Hamas and Hezbollah cared about civilian deaths they would not use civilians as shields and they would not attack Israel.

[azurnoir]

47. are you simply making that up as you go along?

Israel responded in both cases with brutality that far exceeded the acts they were revenging

[hack89]

52. So the proper resonse would have been to kill 3 Hezbollah fighters and kidnap a couple others?

after which Israel would simple wait until they are attacked again? Really?

[azurnoir]

56. as opposed to killing 1200 civilians or nearly that many, destroying a countries infrastructure

and intentionally causing an ecological disaster well ya if you need to put it in those terms it would have been better

[hack89]

59. Wouldn't Hezbollah not attacking Israel be the best choice?

Barring that, Hezbollah not using civilians as shields?

[azurnoir]

67. so you're telling that in the past 8 years alone Israel has killed at least 4000 human shields ?

at some point that term to cover civilian deaths begins to strain credulity

[hack89]

68. Are you denying that both Hamas and Hezbollah locate their military infrastructure

in the middle of densely populated civilian areas? I could see your point if they made an effort to evacuate civilians before attacking Israel but they don't. Israel has the right not only to defend themselves but to deter future attacks.

[azurnoir]

69. I think both scatter their militaries but thanks for the confirmation

btw the place Hezbollahs attack on IDF took place is not a highly populated area

[hack89]

71. ok. Nt

[shira]

48. You deflected like you always do....

You hold only Israel accountable for Hezbollah and Hamas' deliberate use of human shields - a big-time war crime.

You're incapable of condemning these criminal terrorist thugs.

The reason is that you believe ANY Israeli response in self-defense should be illegal.

==========

How am I wrong about you?

[azurnoir]

49. Human shield IMO the Hasbara excuse to cover any

man woman or and especially child that inconveniently for some mostly those looking to wash clean any responsibility from Israel its actions and tragically for most get in the way of an Israeli bomb or bullet, it simply doesn't wash anymore

[shira]

50. LoL. Exactly as I thought. You will never condemn Hamas & Hezbollah....

....for their cynical use of Human shields.

If it were up to you, they could shoot rockets at Israel forever AND get the signal from people like you that you will protect them for committing such war crimes against their own people.

You cannot seriously be seen as an advocate for the Palestinian people while giving Hamas the green light to commit war crimes against their own civilian population.

Pathetic.

[azurnoir]

55. OMG but you do like to get carried away don't you?

the need to use accusations speaks for itself

[shira]

58. Nah, I've read your posts for years here. I'm spot on. n/t

[azurnoir]

66. If you say so