East J'lem bus driver found hanged, family claims settlers killed him

[azurnoir]

East J'lem bus driver found hanged, family claims settlers killed him

A bus driver from East Jerusalem was found hanged at the Har Hotzvim bus terminal in the capital overnight Sunday, with police believing it to be a suicide while his family claiming Israelis murdered him.

His death comes after months of tension in East Jerusalem with police in the city on high alert for violence on either side.

Rumors started going around in eastern Jerusalem and the West Bank following the incident that the driver, Yusuf Hassan al-Ramouni, 32, a father of two from At-Tor, was hanged and murdered by Israelis in a nationalistically motivated crime.

Jerusalem District Police said Monday morning that at present no foul play is suspected and that they were investigating the incident.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4592702,00.html

[azurnoir]

1. more

Muatasem Fakeh, a fellow bus driver, told AFP he had seen signs of violence on the body.

"He was hanged over the steps at the back of the bus in a place where it would be impossible to hang yourself alone," Fakeh said.

Al-Ramouni's brother, Louy, told Reuters there was no way his brother would have killed himself and said there were marks on his body that suggested he had been killed.

"I saw the body last night and I saw bruises and marks that he was beaten up," he said.

"There were marks of fingers on the body and also on his back there was a bruise as if he was hit by a hard object. ... Youssef cannot commit suicide, it is not possible, he is leading a good and happy life with his wife and his family," he added.

[Jefferson23]

2. End the fucking occupation already. n/t

[Scootaloo]

3. Why would Israel do that? The occupation is going exactly as planned

[Jefferson23]

4. I'm an idiot to think anything will change their leadership around. Have you seen this?

For balance, they have the balls to add a punitive measure for Palestinians..cause they're
such a huge obstacle to peace with all their powerful backers in DC:

Haaretz obtains full document of EU-proposed sanctions against Israel

Sanctions could apply to Israeli politicians opposed to the two-state solution, which could include Bennett and Rivlin; steps against European companies working in settlements; punitive measures against Palestinians over 'negative measures.'

By Barak Ravid | Nov. 17, 2014 | 5:00 PM

An internal European Union document on proposed sanctions against Israel, which Haaretz obtained in its entirety on Monday, reveals new details on the suggestions being made in the internal discussions among EU member states that have been taking place in Brussels. Among the options under consideration are measures against European companies that work in settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

If this measure should be carried out, it could harm quite a few Israeli businesses that work with European companies on projects in the settlements. For example, the Dutch Foreign Ministry recommended that the Dutch water company Vitens not carry out projects in the settlements in collaboration with Israel’s water company, Mekorot. Several months previously, the Dutch government recommended that the Royal Haskoning infrastructure company reconsider constructing a sewage purification plant in East Jerusalem for the Jerusalem municipality.

High-ranking European diplomats who were involved in discussions about the document told Haaretz that work on the topic began on September 11. The EU’s Political and Security Committee in Brussels, which is made up of the ambassadors of the EU’s 28 member states, gave the committee of experts on Middle Eastern affairs – which is known in EU jargon as the Mashreq-Maghreb Working Party, or MaMa for short – the task of drafting a document containing the response measures to acts by the Israeli government that are liable to make the two-state solution an impossibility.

Examples of this are construction projects in the E1 area between Ma’aleh Adumim and Jerusalem, and in the Jerusalem neighborhoods of Givat Hamatos and Har Homa, both of which are over the Green Line. The European Union believes that construction in these places endangers the possibility of establishing a Palestinian state with territorial contiguity and could keep Jerusalem from being the capital of both states.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.626946

[Jefferson23]

5. Response to the leak:

EU foreign policy chief: Document on Israel sanctions is 'hypothetical' and internal

The European Union's new foreign policy chief said Monday that a policy document outlining sanctions options against Israel, which Haaretz revealed, is an internal and "hypothetical" working paper that was not brought up for discussion at a meeting of 28 EU foreign ministers earlier that day.

The document, which Haaretz obtained in its entirety, reveals new details on the suggestions being made in the internal discussions among EU member states that have been taking place in Brussels. Among the options under consideration are measures against European companies that work in settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

"It certainly was not on the ministers' table today and it was not at the heart of today's discussion," Federica Mogherini, the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs said, adding that she had read the report in Haaretz. "There was certainly no question of isolating or sanctioning anybody, rather how can we re-motivate people to get into a dialogue again, how to start a positive process with the Israelis and Palestinians to re-launch a peace process."

Nonetheless, the foreign ministers' meeting ended with a formal condemnation of Israeli building of settlements over the Green Line and a hint regarding punitive measures against Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.627012

[Jefferson23]

6. Expert: Palestinian hanging death does not seem to be suicide

BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- A medical expert told Ma'an that a Palestinian who was found hanged on a bus near Jerusalem earlier Monday died by "hanging and strangulation," and that preliminary tests suggest he was the victim of "an organized murder."

Earlier, bus driver Yousuf Hasan al-Ramouni, 32, was found hanged inside his bus at the Har Hotzvim terminal near Jerusalem, and police said in a statement that there was "no suspicion of criminal activity" and his death appeared to be a suicide.

But the medical expert, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told Ma'an that al-Ramouni's death did not appear to be a suicide.

After an autopsy it was found that the man's first vertebra was not dislocated, which usually happens in the cases of suicide by hanging, the expert said.

He added that postmortem lividity, or livor mortis, was found on the buttocks of the body and not the lower limbs, which indicates that al-Ramouni was not dangled.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=740613

[azurnoir]

7. Conflicting reports on death of Palestinian found hanged

remember it was Israeli police who helped spread the rumor that Mohammed Abu Khdeir’ murder was an honor killing committed by family members because he was Gay

The minute news came out late Sunday night that a Palestinian man was found hanged at an Egged bus depot in Jerusalem, Twitter was awash with speculations as to whether it was suicide or murder. Israel Police quickly issued a statement that it did not suspect foul play. ”According to an initial investigation, it appears there is no suspicion of criminal activity, in other words a suicide,” police spokeswoman Luba Samri told the press.

But photos of the body of Yusuf Hassan al-Ramouni, 32, began circulating on Twitter showing bruises on his body indicating he was attacked before being hanged. The Palestinian Ma’an News Agency (Arabic) reported witnesses who claim six Israeli settlers attacked al-Ramouni, who worked as an Egged bus driver. Many Palestinians, including his family, insist this was not suicide but rather a lynch by Jews.

By around 5 p.m. on Monday, Israeli news sites reported that the autopsy – which was conducted at the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute, and included the participation of a Palestinian pathologist selected by al-Ramouni’s family – was completed and affirmed that there was no murder. Israel Police spokesperson Micky Rosenfeld tweeted assuredly that “findings are-incident not criminal related whatsoever.”

However, a Palestinian medical expert told Ma’an that the findings of the autopsy indicate that al-Ramouni did not die by suicide, but was in fact the victim of an “organized crime,” since, for example, “there was no dislocation in the first cervical vertebrae, which is usually found in cases of suicide by hanging.” The Palestinian new site Arabs 48 also reported these findings in more detail. The medical expert told Ma’an that more lab work was necessary to reach conclusive findings, which could take several months

http://972mag.com/conflicting-reports-on-cause-of-death-of-palestinian-found-hanged/98918/

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

8. Horrible. Just horrible.

But there are some racists that will just say that it is a fake or that the Palestinian is alive someplace else.

They will call it a name that I will not use that sounds like Hollywood.

[King_David]

9. Really you got a link for that?

First time I heard that about this theory in your post and it's not mentioned in any printed stories.

This mans death was horrible and I really hope that if the police are saying it's an honor killing because the guy was gay that if its not true somebody pays for this horrible murder and deceit.

I really hope also your not making up what you said about this murder in your post because that too would be a disgraceful deceit taking awY from this poor murdered man the spotlight his murder deserves.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

10. Hawk your fake outrage someplace else, king.

Many know of at least one hasbaracist that has belittled Palestinians at every turn: going so far as to say that some murders, on camera no less, were probably faked.

Many know this...at least the ones that don't play dumb then hostile.

[King_David]

11. Okay just as I thought , clearly no link,

Hopefully you did not make that up...I'll google it .

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

12. You go do that.

We both know that I didn't make it up.

The only difference is that I am honest about it.

One can only guess at to your motives.

[King_David]

13. Go ahead guess please,

Nothing on Google ....

Wasted my time looking and now finished this conversation

Bye

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

15. You do nothing for your credibility with these staged poutrages.

Not with me, not with the many.


But please keep it going.

[Jefferson23]

14. Palestinian bus driver's hanging death ignites East Jerusalem protests

Israeli forensics team says bus driver's death in East Jerusalem was suicide; colleagues, family say they suspect murder
November 17, 2014 10:46AM ET

Scores of Palestinian protesters burned tires in East Jerusalem overnight after a Palestinian bus driver was found hanged in his vehicle on Sunday.

An Israeli forensics team said Monday that Yusuf Hasan al-Ramuni’s death was a suicide and that there was no evidence of foul play, but Palestinian authorities and Ramuni's colleagues and relatives said they suspected murder.

A supervisor had found Ramuni’s body at a bus depot on Sunday in the East Jerusalem industrial zone of Har Hotzvim, police said in a statement.

Ramuni, 32, was identified by family members who said he was from Al-Tur on the Mount of Olives in occupied East Jerusalem.

His relatives ruled out that the father of two could have committed suicide.

"My brother had children and was a happy man. It is impossible that he killed himself," said Osama al-Ramuni, the victim's brother.

Tensions in Jerusalem have been high since June, when Palestinians kidnapped and killed three Israeli teenagers in the West Bank. Israelis retaliated by abducting and burning alive a Palestinian teenager in East Jerusalem. The kidnappings set off a series of events that led to the 50-day Gaza war, which left more than 2,100 Palestinians and 71 Israelis dead

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/11/17/palestinian-foundhangedonbussparksprotests.html

[King_David]

17. Suicide

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=87867

[Jefferson23]

18. Are you saying Ma'an misquoted the physician?

Isn't that your field?

[King_David]

19. Read the article in the NYT,

Who do I believe?

NYT or Maan, is that your question?

[Jefferson23]

21. The NYT does not say that Ma'an misquoted him. The physician was quoted, that

you feel it's all resolved is no surprise.

This is your field, isn't it?

[King_David]

23. This is what the NYT said,

Relatives of the attackers, Odai Abed Abu Jamal, 22, and Ghassan Muhammad Abu Jamal, 32, said the cousins were motivated by what they saw as threats of a Jewish takeover of Al Aqsa and the death of a Palestinian bus driver in Jerusalem. The driver, Yousef al-Ramouni, was found hanged in his bus Sunday; the Israeli authorities say he committed suicide, but his family insists that he was lynched by Jews.

Chen Kugel, head of Israel’s forensic institute, said Tuesday that the autopsy found only evidence consistent with suicide, and that a Palestinian pathologist who attended concurred. But Ma’an, an independent Palestinian news agency, reported that the Palestinian doctor questioned the conclusion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/world/middleeast/killings-in-jerusalem-synagogue-complex.html?_r=0

[Jefferson23]

26. Where does the NYT quote the pathologist saying Ma'an misquoted him? n/t

[King_David]

27. Umm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=87882

[Jefferson23]

28. That's ok..they don't know and don't say they tried to verify it. n/t

[King_David]

29. Pretty clear it was suicide

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=87878

[Jefferson23]

30. To you it is.

Isn't that your field?

[King_David]

32. I think the NYT article was pretty clear.

I looked at other sources and nowhere besides Maan is there a report of another expert.

[Jefferson23]

33. Too bad NYT did not check it out with the pathologist, does not even suggest they tried to verify.

He can speak up for himself soon enough. Independent autopsies can be ordered too.

[King_David]

35. East J'lem bus driver found hanged, autopsy confirms suicide suspicion

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4592702,00.html

[Jefferson23]

36. That changes nothing about the pathologist as Ma'an reported.

That post of yours is more damaging to Israel than the Ma'an report was,
the family may demand an independent autopsy.

[King_David]

37. They should, somebody is lying or afraid to tell the truth,

And the truth needs to come out, especially if they do not believe the Jewish Pathologist.

[Jefferson23]

38. Yea, Israel has a great track record of going after their terrorists..lots of trust there.

Nov. 17. 2014

Palestinian pathologist suspects foul play in bus driver's death, despite autopsy results

Physician disputes forensic report, noting signs on body of worker found hanged in Jerusalem on Sunday were inconsistent with suicide.
By Nir Hasson | Nov. 17, 2014 | 9:00 PM

The Palestinian physician who participated in the autopsy of a Palestinian bus driver found hanged in a Jerusalem bus on Sunday asserts that he was probably murdered and did not commit suicide as Israel Police surmises.

The body of Yusuf Hassan al-Ramouni, a 32-year-old Egged driver, was found in a bus depot in the West Jerusalem area of Mt. Scopus late Sunday night. Clashes broke out in East Jerusalem overnight after the body was discovered.

The police based their assertion on a report from the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute. However, Dr. Saber al-Aloul told the Ma'an News Agency that Ramouni died by "hanging and strangulation."

He said the autopsy revealed that the man's first vertebra was not dislocated, which is usually the case in hangings by suicide. Moreover, he noted, signs of liver mortis – the settling of the blood after death – were found on the buttocks of the body rather than in the lower limbs, where they should be in the case of a suicide.

Attorney Mohammed Mahmoud, who represents the driver's family, received al-Aloul's autopsy report on Monday. According to him, though the document states no signs of violence were found on the body, the pathologist estimated that Ramouni was murdered and did not commit suicide.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.626996

[King_David]

39. As I said this dude is not free to give his medical opinion nt

[Jefferson23]

40. Your opinion. I don't recall hearing Meretz supporters speak so ill of Palestinians as you do.n/t

[King_David]

41. Your post is offensive and a sure sign you are losing the argument,

I have heard your opinion in lots of places,


And it was not from Meretz supporters .


Point out where i spoke ill of Palestinians ---link it up.

Meanwhile I can not link to where I have read your opinions on IP, it aint allowed on DU.


My opinions on IP are Identical to Biden's and Kerry's..... Yours?

[Jefferson23]

42. You just trashed them in your last post.

My opinion is not supported by Meretz supporters? That's good, because I am not the
one claiming to support them or Israeli policy...that's you. I am interested in your constant
filters of support for Netanyahu policy when you think you're not..it's pretty funny.

I want to see Israeli leaders hauled to the Hague. I have no concern of your opinion of me, none.

[King_David]

43. Like water off a ducks back,

Your Netenyahu meme is simply not true and mildly amusing , but water off a ducks back.

I am not Israeli , I do not support Meretz , although it is a Zionist group.

I support Israel and the Democratic Party , just like almost all other American Jews do.

I do not have a hidden motive in this conflict, I do have a horse in this race.

[Jefferson23]

44. I don't think your motives are hidden, either. Have a good night. n/t

[King_David]

16. Suicide

Chen Kugel, head of Israel’s forensic institute, said Tuesday that the autopsy found only evidence consistent with suicide, and that a Palestinian pathologist who attended concurred. But Ma’an, an independent Palestinian news agency, reported that the Palestinian doctor questioned the conclusion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/world/middleeast/killings-in-jerusalem-synagogue-complex.html?_r=0


Maan is real credible?

Unreal !!!

[Jefferson23]

20. Thousands attend burial of hanged Palestinian

Israeli forensics team say death of bus driver in Jerusalem was suicide, but colleagues of man say they suspect murder.

Last updated: 17 Nov 2014

Thousands of Palestinians have attended the funeral of a bus driver who was found hanged in his vehicle, a death declared suicide by an Israeli forensics team, but believed to be a murder by his family and the Palestinian government.

The incident happened late on Sunday, with a supervisor finding the body of 32-year-old Yusuf Hasan al-Ramuni at a bus depot in the industrial zone of Har Hotzvim in northeast Jerusalem, police said in a statement.

Following an autopsy, Israeli police ruled it was not a criminal or nationalistic attack.

Al Jazeera's Stefanie Dekker, reporting from occupied East Jerusalem, said: "There is a huge crowd here. Thousands have shown up for the funeral, but there are questions.

"No one here believes the Israeli verdict that no foul play was involved."

Speaking to Al Jazeera, Shireen Ramuni, the driver's wife, said her husband was killed. "He got on with everyone. He didn't differentiate between Palestinians and Jews. They killed him."

The family's lawyer also told Al Jazeera that a Palestinian doctor, who attended the autopsy, said the father of two was strangled to death.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/11/protests-as-palestinian-found-hanged-bus-20141117125657229203.html

[King_David]

22. NYT has different take,

Relatives of the attackers, Odai Abed Abu Jamal, 22, and Ghassan Muhammad Abu Jamal, 32, said the cousins were motivated by what they saw as threats of a Jewish takeover of Al Aqsa and the death of a Palestinian bus driver in Jerusalem. The driver, Yousef al-Ramouni, was found hanged in his bus Sunday; the Israeli authorities say he committed suicide, but his family insists that he was lynched by Jews.

Chen Kugel, head of Israel’s forensic institute, said Tuesday that the autopsy found only evidence consistent with suicide, and that a Palestinian pathologist who attended concurred. But Ma’an, an independent Palestinian news agency, reported that the Palestinian doctor questioned the conclusion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/world/middleeast/killings-in-jerusalem-synagogue-complex.html?_r=0

[Jefferson23]

24. They do? The physician will be able to say soon enough if he was misquoted. n/t

[King_David]

25. Maybe,

It could be life threatening dangerous to tell the truth.


They give out death sentences there for selling things to Jews, like a house.---dead.

[Jefferson23]

31. Your truth is funny. n/t

[King_David]

34. East J'lem bus driver found hanged, autopsy confirms suicide suspicion

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4592702,00.html

[azurnoir]

45. Expert: Palestinian hanging death does not seem to be suicide

A medical expert told Ma'an that a Palestinian who was found hanged on a bus near Jerusalem earlier Monday died by "hanging and strangulation," and that preliminary tests suggest he was the victim of "an organized murder."

Earlier, bus driver Yousuf Hasan al-Ramouni, 32, was found hanged inside his bus at the Har Hotzvim terminal near Jerusalem, and police said in a statement that there was "no suspicion of criminal activity" and his death appeared to be a suicide.

But the medical expert, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told Ma'an that al-Ramouni's death did not appear to be a suicide.

After an autopsy it was found that the man's first vertebra was not dislocated, which usually happens in the cases of suicide by hanging, the expert said.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=740613

remember it was Israeli police who helped spread the rumor that Mohammed Abu Khdeir’ murder was an honor killing committed by family members because he was Gay