Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumReservists from elite IDF intel unit refuse to serve over Palestinian 'persecution'
Forty-three signatories, including a major and two captains, in a letter to the prime minister: 'Intelligence is an integral part of Israel's military occupation over the territories.'By Gili Cohen | Sep. 12, 2014 | 2:50 PM
Forty-three former members of Israel Defense Forces intelligence Unit 8200, including some officers, wrote an open letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and top military officials, saying they would refuse to do reserve service because of Israel's `political persecution' of the Palestinians.
"We, veterans of Unit 8200, reserve soldiers both past and present, declare that we refuse to take part in actions against Palestinians and refuse to continue serving as tools in deepening the military control over the Occupied Territories." the soldiers said in the letter, which was also addressed to IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz and Maj. Gen. Aviv Kochavi, the head of the Military Intelligence Directorate.
Among the signatories are a major and two captains in the reserves. Also signing were other intelligence personnel, who include officers and non-commissioned officers who served in the unit in professional capacities.
It is commonly thought that the service in military intelligence is free of moral dilemmas and solely contributes to the reduction of violence and harm to innocent people" they said in the letter. "However, our military service has taught us that intelligence is an integral part of Israel's military occupation over the territories."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.615498
King_David
(14,851 posts)And a healthy protest in a healthy democracy.
kayecy
(1,417 posts)I am impressed with your sense of what is right but......will there be an investigation to find out how long this has been going on for and some sort of assurance to the innocent Palestinians that it will now stop?
Mosby
(16,319 posts)From other militaries.
cali
(114,904 posts)and the government brutalizes and exploits Palestinians and that dissent is stifled. It's a broad indictment of the IDF. Poor attempt at spin from you. The IDF is decidedly not better or different than other militaries and these folks are saying that it is deplorable in some significant ways.
From the NYT:
n the testimony and in interviews, though, the Unit 8200 veterans described exploitative activities focused on innocents Israel hoped to enlist as collaborators. They said information about medical conditions and sexual orientation were among the tidbits collected. They said that Palestinians lacked legal protections from harassment, extortion and injury.
Palestinians sex talks were always a hot item to pass on from one person in the unit to the other for a good laugh, read one officers testimony. Another explained, The attitude was, Why not? We can, so lets do it.'
<snip>
<snip>
For a 29-year-old captain whose eight years in the unit ended in 2011, the transformational moment came in watching The Lives of Others, a 2006 film about the operations of the East German secret police.
I felt a lot of sympathy for the victims in the film of the intelligence, the captain said. But I did feel a weird, confusing sense of similarity, I identified myself with the intelligence workers. That we were similar to the kind of oppressive intelligence in oppressive regimes really was a deep realization that makes us all feel that we have to take responsibility.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/world/middleeast/elite-israeli-officers-decry-treatment-of-palestinians.html
cali
(114,904 posts)you really need to fine tune your spin. it's quite poor.
King_David
(14,851 posts)I'll take it under advisement .
And btw welcome back from your hiatus from DU .
Israeli
(4,151 posts)there is no " healthy democracy " here .... hasnt been for a long time .
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4570340,00.html
King_David
(14,851 posts)If there hasn't been for "a long time" then your suggesting that there was at some time. When?
Israeli
(4,151 posts)before 21:30.
King_David
(14,851 posts)I agree.
Israeli
(4,151 posts)...it wasnt a 'death' ..... it was a political assassination .
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Many other countries wouldn't be so lucky to pen such a letter unless it was written in their own blood.
Israeli
(4,151 posts)....that you and oberliner wont want some cheese with your whine .....
http://972mag.com/idfs-start-up-nation-reservists-refuse-to-serve-the-occupation/96636/
King_David
(14,851 posts)Israeli
(4,151 posts)...that I was expecting the usual complaints about 972 from the both of you .
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon on Saturday accused the group of conscientious objectors from an elite IDF intelligence unit of contributing to the de-legitimization of Israel and the lies against it by publicly protesting its activities in the Palestinian territories.
Ive become familiar with Unit 8200 and its work over the past few decades, most certainly since I was named head of Military Intelligence [in 1995], Yaalon said in a statement. I got to see first-hand the scope of the contributions that the units people made to the security of Israels citizens.
The officers and soldiers of the unit do important work, day and night, and they do this with exceptional creativity and a dedication that is simply remarkable, the defense minister said. Unit 8200 perpetuates the existence of the State of Israel.
Attempts to harm it and its work, by means of calling on others to refuse orders because of claims that are inconsistent with the units core mission and the values of its people, is a foolish and contemptible attempt that helps the de-legitimization efforts against Israel and the lies spread around the world about the IDF and its soldiers, through no fault of their own.
http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Yaalon-slams-conscientious-objectors-for-aiding-de-legitimization-of-Israel-375248
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Israeli
(4,151 posts)....here is the full letter translated :
Prime Minister, Mr Benjamin Netanyahu
Chief of General Staff, Benny Gantz
Military Intelligence Director, Major General Aviv Kochavi
Commander of Unit 8200
We, veterans of Unit 8200, reserve soldiers both past and present, declare that we refuse to take part in actions against Palestinians and refuse to continue serving as tools in deepening the military control over the Occupied Territories.
It is commonly thought that the service in military intelligence is free of moral dilemmas and solely contributes to the reduction of violence and harm to innocent people. However, our military service has taught us that intelligence is an integral part of Israel's military occupation over the territories. The Palestinian population under military rule is completely exposed to espionage and surveillance by Israeli intelligence. While there are severe limitations on the surveillance of Israeli citizens, the Palestinians are not afforded this protection. There's no distinction between Palestinians who are, and are not, involved in violence. Information that is collected and stored harms innocent people. It is used for political persecution and to create divisions within Palestinian society by recruiting collaborators and driving parts of Palestinian society against itself. In many cases, intelligence prevents defendants from receiving a fair trial in military courts, as the evidence against them is not revealed. Intelligence allows for the continued control over millions of people through thorough and intrusive supervision and invasion of most areas of life. This does not allow for people to lead normal lives, and fuels more violence further distancing us from the end of the conflict.
Millions of Palestinians have been living under Israeli military rule for over 47 years. This regime denies the basic rights and expropriates extensive tracts of land for Jewish settlements subject to separate and different legal systems, jurisdiction and law enforcement. This reality is not an inevitable result of the state's efforts to protect itself but rather the result of choice. Settlement expansion has nothing to do with national security. The same goes for restrictions on construction and development, economic exploitation of the West Bank, collective punishment of inhabitants of the Gaza Strip, and the actual route of the separation barrier.
In light of all this, we have concluded that as individuals who served in Unit 8200, we must take responsibility for our part in this situation and it is our moral duty to act. We cannot continue to serve this system in good conscience, denying the rights of millions of people. Therefore, those among us who are reservists, refuse to take part in the state's actions against Palestinians. We call for all soldiers serving in the Intelligence Corps, present and future, along with all the citizens of Israel, to speak out against these injustices and to take action to bring them to an end. We believe that Israel's future depends on it.
LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)I wish everyone who had been involved in or observed corrupted and excessive surveillance activities would do the same everywhere.
Thinking of for example:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/09/lawrences-sins-of-surveillance-exposed-inquiry-undercover-policing
And I hope there's a proper investigation of the abuses that have already taken place with regard to surveillance of the Palestinians.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Israeli
(4,151 posts)JERUSALEM Denouncing Israels treatment of Palestinians under occupation, a group of veterans from an elite, secretive military intelligence unit have declared they will no longer take part in the states actions against Palestinians in required reserve duty because of what they called our moral duty to act.
In a letter sent Thursday night to their commanders as well as Israels prime minister and army chief, 43 veterans of the clandestine Unit 8200 complained that Israel made no distinction between Palestinians who are and are not involved in violence and that information collected harms innocent people. Intelligence is used for political persecution, they wrote, which does not allow for people to lead normal lives, and fuels more violence, further distancing us from the end of the conflict.
The letter, revealed Friday in Israels Yediot Aharonot newspaper as well as The Guardian in Britain, echoes similar periodic protests by reservists over the years, including a group of 27 pilots who refused to participate in what Israel calls targeted assassinations, and 13 members of the vaunted commando unit known as Sayeret Matkal, both in 2003. But it is the first public collective refusal by intelligence officers rather that combat troops. Unit 8200 has a special role in Israeli society as a coveted pipeline to its high-technology industry.
After our service we started seeing a more complex picture of a nondemocratic, oppressive regime that controls the lives of millions of people, said one of the groups organizers, a 32-year-old sergeant major who was on active duty from 2001 to 2005. He spoke on the condition of anonymity because the military prohibits Unit 8200 members from being publicly identified.
There are certain things that we were asked to do that we feel do not deserve the title of self-defense, he added in a telephone interview. Some of the things that we did are immoral, and are against the things we believe in, and were not willing to do these things anymore.
The new refuseniks said their group began a year ago and was not motivated by Israels battle with Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip this summer, which a member said was just another chapter in this cycle of violence.
The timing is nonetheless powerful, coming after many longtime Israeli critics of the occupation complained that their voices were stifled during a unified rallying around the war effort.
Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, a spokesman for the Israeli military, said specific incidents mentioned in officers testimonies presented with the groups letter would be examined, and that ramifications for refusing to serve including possible criminal prosecution would be handled individually. He disputed the general thrust of the letter, saying of Unit 8200, there is special emphasis placed on the morality and ethics and proper procedures and what we expect.
We are facing a ruthless enemy that will carry out devastating attacks, Colonel Lerner said. As such, our intelligence needs to be, I would say, top of its professional capabilities in order to intercept that suicide bomber, in order to forewarn Israel when there is an attack thats going to happen, to be able to get to them before they perform their bad deeds.
In the testimony and in interviews, though, the Unit 8200 veterans described exploitative activities focused on innocents whom Israel hoped to enlist as collaborators. They said information about medical conditions and sexual orientation were among the tidbits collected. They said that Palestinians lacked legal protections from harassment, extortion and injury.
Palestinians sex talks were always a hot item to pass on from one person in the unit to the other for a good laugh, read one officers testimony.
Most of the people who signed the letter are in their late 20s or early 30s and had attained the rank of sergeant or lieutenant; many are still active reservists, though the organizers interviewed said none had served in recent months. That in part was because of what they called gray refusal, in which officers would avoid call-ups from friendly commanders.
A 26-year-old woman who was on active duty from 2006 and 2008 and now works at a technology start-up said that her refusal resulted partly from what she saw as a change in the militarys operations, or at least Israels response to it.
When 14 civilians were killed alongside a Palestinian commander targeted for assassination in 2002, she said, it made huge waves throughout the media and in the army, there were committees to investigate. In Gaza, things similar to that and much worse happened, she said, but there was no talk about it.
For a 29-year-old captain whose eight years in the unit ended in 2011, the transformational moment came in watching The Lives of Others, a 2006 film about the operations of the East German secret police.
I felt a lot of sympathy for the victims in the film of the intelligence, the captain said. But I did feel a weird, confusing sense of similarity, I identified myself with the intelligence workers. That we were similar to the kind of oppressive intelligence in oppressive regimes really was a deep realization that makes us all feel that we have to take responsibility.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/world/middleeast/elite-israeli-officers-decry-treatment-of-palestinians.html?action=click&contentCollection=Middle%20East®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article&_r=4
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Israeli
(4,151 posts)The elite intel unit veterans took a milestone in announcing they will no longer serve the occupation. In their footsteps, perhaps, a few veterans of the Shin Bet security service will also come forward and talk about what they did at work.
By Gideon Levy
The 43 veterans of the elite intel unit who announced that they will no longer agree to serve the occupation have made a double contribution to Israeli society.
Like other conscientious objectors, including soldiers and military pilots, these members of Unit 8200 are courageous and moral. But their refusal has an additional dimension, the likes of which have never been seen before in Israel. They etched another scar into the ugly face of the Israeli occupation, deeper than the ones that preceded it, because it involves the darkest and most base sides of the occupations malignant routine. In a healthy society, the reservists action and their disclosures would have set off real shock waves. But in Israel, all the systems of defense, offense and propaganda, of ridicule and denial, have already been co-opted for the purpose of swiftly burying this important letter by objector-spies.
They, too, are among the finest of our youth, perhaps the best almost like the pilots. Unit 8200, the largest unit of the Israel Defense Forces, has the right of second pick, after the air force, in selecting recruits. Their image is sparkling and their future is assured; tech firms lie in wait for them. Their military service is free of risk and like the pilots they dont see their victims up close. Until now, their service was nearly free of ethical qualms. They do not kill, beat or carry out arrests, they are jobniks, desk jockeys with prestige, the kind of child nearly every parent would want. Their weapon is their intelligence, their computer and other sophisticated instruments; their bunker is their office. A large part of their work, it must be stressed, is vital and legitimate. And still, Unit 8200 is Israels Stasi.
In contrast to the East German intelligence service, its Israeli successor targets not citizens of the state, but rather the Palestinians who are subject to its occupation. Anything may be done to them, using means the Stasi would have envied. Like the Stasi, it involves not only intelligence gathering and espionage, but also mechanisms to control, extort and exploit an entire nation. This is based on erecting an enormous army of collaborators and informers, recruited through the vicious exploitation of their weaknesses, needs, illnesses and sexual orientations.
Thanks to Unit 8200, an entire nation exists without the right to privacy. The great contribution of the new objectors is that they have told us about this. In their Arabic studies, they were taught all the forms of the Arabic word for homosexual because they need it. They were required to find out about the sexual orientation, health and financial problems of tens of thousands of individuals. Perhaps theres a nephew on Israels list of wanted terrorists, perhaps a cousin whos wanted for questioning, offering an opportunity for extortion. Perhaps theyll agree to talk about the next-door neighbor in exchange for a chemotherapy treatment; a report in return for surgery; snitching in exchange for an income boost; a bit of information in return for a night in Tel Aviv.
This despicable collecting work theres no other way to describe it is done by soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, and every Jewish mother should know this. They collect important security information, and alongside it also political and personal information, and they mark targets for assassination. A few of them tried to talk about it over the weekend, and the radio and television stations rocked with laughter. The commentators vied with each other for adjectives: trippy, scandalous, negligible, spoiled brats and, worst of all, politicos and lefties in unison, of course. No one came to the defense of a group of people who, until Thursday, were a source of pride. Not even activists from the LGBT community, who are called in after any inappropriate comment about lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgenders. They have been silent about the persecution of their Palestinian counterparts by the state, which brags about its enlightened attitude toward the gay community.
Thats Israel for you. As long as the members of Unit 8200 were up to their arms in the filth of the occupation, they were considered principled young men and women, and were respected. But as soon as they decided theyd had enough, they became targets for ridicule and ostracism. The step they have taken is a milestone. In their footsteps, perhaps, a few veterans of the Shin Bet security service the other pillar of the Israeli Stasi in the territories will also come forward and finally talk about what they did at work. Their commanders already did, partially, in The Gatekeepers.
The military and media establishment will quickly stomp on the 43 objectors, but perhaps they will not be forgotten. From out of the deepest darkness, they broke the silence.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.615592