Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumOld-fashioned anti-Semitism for progressive thinkers
There is one community in the world, which according to the British newspaper the Independent, can be reasonably called a child murdering community.
Criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitic. We have said it a thousand times, and we should say it a thousand times more. But to understand the difference between legitimate criticism and anti-Semitism, one must go back a few to an article, one of many, published against Israel. It was not criticism of Israel. It was criticism of a "child murdering community". It was not published in a journal of the Nazi Party in Bavaria. These obscene words were written in the Independent newspaper in Britain. A newspaper for enlightened people, for progressive thinkers. - How exactly did Israel become a "child murdering community "? Well, according to the most extreme version, and the most manipulative, which is based on sources operating under the auspices of Hamas, about 1,800 people were killed during Operation Protective Edge. Let us suppose that this is not a lie. Of that number, 24 percent, it is claimed, were under 18. This is a far higher proportion than the proportion of minors in the actual population, but let's say that this is true as well. Let's go with the Hamas data. And according to calculations published in The New York Times, 16 percent of those killed in Gaza were aged below 15.
How did Britain conduct itself in its last major conflict? Well, British troops were involved in the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The British medical journal "The Lancet", which is so acceptable to the British progressive forces, claim that this war, not an occupation that lasted for many years, caused 100,000 deaths. And, according to the same publication, 46 percent of that number were under 15. That is 46,000 children. Not youths, children. In other words, there was a 46-percent mortality rate for children by the British, 16 percent by Israel. In the case of the UK, which is part of NATO, we can go a little further back, and remember what happened in the bombing of Belgrade in 1999 during the war in Kosovo (Operation Allied Force). The results are the same. Approximately 500 soldiers were killed, and 1,200-1,500 non-combatants, hundreds of them children.
And while Belgrade complained of severe harm to innocent people and children, the late Robin Cook, then foreign secretary responded: "How dare they now produce crocodile tears for people killed in the conflict for which they themselves are responsible."
Neither the Iraqi nor Serbian armies used children as human shields, nor did they officially announce that they were using children as human shields, as did Hamas. They also did not issue an instruction manual demanding that fighters use concentrations of civilians, as did Hamas. In Baghdad, Basra and Belgrade did not fire rockets at London and Manchester from ITS SCHOOLS, as did Hamas. Nevertheless, the British, along with the Americans, caused a far higher number of child deaths, both in relative and absolute terms. But the Independent newspaper has determined that there is one community in the world that it is permissible to brand as a "child murdering community". This is not the first time that the phrase is has been bandied about in Europe. The tune is ALL too familiar. Criticism of Israel, it is worth saying again, is not anti-Semitism. But this progressive British newspaper has clearly shown that sometimes, just sometimes, it is not a criticism, or even new anti-Semitism. Sometimes, it is the old anti-Semitism in all its glory.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4562127,00.html
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4now
(1,596 posts)You get labeled anti-Semitic.
That article is a lot of words trying to justify the murder of over 500 innocent children.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)by Israel use the same strong language to condemn the UK and US for their killing of innocent civilians.
(on edit : meant to reply to OP)
shira
(30,109 posts)They don't accuse the US and UK of genocide, like they do Israel.
It's not the same at all.
The loaded language is a dead giveaway.
shira
(30,109 posts)Antisemites do not believe Jews have any right to defend themselves from fascists. They engage in a form of holocaust denial (inversion) where only Israel is compared to Nazi Germany. The ritual child murder charge is a big part of this latest blood libel.
There were more than 160 children Hamas killed while digging tunnels. Hamas admitted to this.
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/At-least-160-children-died-digging-tunnels-for-Hamas-369138
There's no outrage from Israel's most hostile critics because their "concern" is not for the welfare of Palestinian children. It's about hating Jews.
4now
(1,596 posts)Death toll in Gaza - 217 were armed militants - 1396 were Palestinian civilians
Of those, 222 were women and 418 were children.
This is from Washington Post Gaza counter.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/gaza-counter/
217 were armed Palestinian militants. Of those, 2 were children.
1396 were Palestinian civilians. Of those, 222 were women and 418 were children.
277 Palestinians had an unknown role.
The IDF does a very good job of killing civilians.
shira
(30,109 posts)Over the past decade, facts show Israel is more careful with civilian lives than any other western nation at war.
What does that make all other western nations at war compared to Israel, since they kill a far higher percentage of civilians and children than Israel?
4now
(1,596 posts)They then try to claim that it was for self defense and and if anyone disagrees with their mass murder of children they are called anti-semitic.
shira
(30,109 posts)Is there any military response Israel can take against Hamas rockets, tunnels, etc.?
4now
(1,596 posts)whenever they feel threatened?
shira
(30,109 posts)4now
(1,596 posts)Are you trying to put your words in my mouth?
Yes you are.
Are you trying to avoid my question?
Yes you are.
Is Israel allowed to murder over 500 innocent children whenever they feel threatened?
shira
(30,109 posts)4now
(1,596 posts)the people murdering their children?
shira
(30,109 posts)Your turn to answer me.
4now
(1,596 posts)Thats my answer.
shira
(30,109 posts)...if their civilians were being shelled by rockets.
They'd kill a FAR higher percentage of children. And you would accuse them of murdering kids, pretending it's self-defense?
Presumably, because you're anti-war. Correct?
4now
(1,596 posts)If you stole their land.
stole their water.
stole their gas reserves.
murdered over 500 of their innocent children in the last 2 months.
I wonder what the U.S. would do to a neighboring country that tried to do that to us.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Just like we tell Ukraine to do!
shira
(30,109 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I think you joined our community sometime after Shira's most recent hide and subsequent vacation, yes? You're in for a treat.
4now
(1,596 posts)He got me to play along for awhile.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The best part is when she goes off-script and we get gems like a demand to send flotillas to Tibet, or advocacy for the conspiracy theories of Nahum Shahaf, or insistence that it's Palestinians who are occupying Israel.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Chances of dying in a traffic accident are far higher. Rockets are so scary that Israelis picnic on the Gaza border to watch the IDF fireworks.
http://item.liveleak.com/2/view?i=b3d_1231628428&comments=1&use_old_player=1
How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847
Surveying the wreckage of a neighbor's bungalow hit by a Palestinian rocket, retired Israeli official Avner Cohen traces the missile's trajectory back to an "enormous, stupid mistake" made 30 years ago.
"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel's destruction.
Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with "Yassins," primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric.
Last Saturday, after 22 days of war, Israel announced a halt to the offensive. The assault was aimed at stopping Hamas rockets from falling on Israel. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert hailed a "determined and successful military operation." More than 1,200 Palestinians had died. Thirteen Israelis were also killed.
shira
(30,109 posts)...of thousands of Israelis into bomb shelters day and night.
Minimizing and whitewashing these crimes against humanity doesn't do anything positive for the Palestinian cause.
eridani
(51,907 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)...try living like an Israeli near the Gaza border within minutes of Hamas, ISIS, Al Qaeda, & Islamic Jihad fascists trying their best to kill you all.
And then let me know how chickenshit those firecrackers (and tunnels) are.
eridani
(51,907 posts)I'm in more danger on my local freeway. How about an example of a rocket destroying a hospital, a school, a power plant or a water treatment facility?
If settlers weren't coldblooded thieves of land and water, none of this would be happening.
King_David
(14,851 posts)No country in the world would tolerate even 1 Rocket flying over it's border and nor will The Jewish State .
That's the facts .
eridani
(51,907 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)As is the incessant defense of it. It's amazing that you, as so many others, are wholly unable to condemn the killing of ~500 children. Of three hundred-odd women. The maiming of thousands more. You can't find anywhere inside yourself that says "that is wrong."
Instead you defend it. You excuse it. You make the killing, the maiming, the terrorism somehow sacrosanct
And not only do you defend it, you claim that it is essential to Jewish existence. That these mass killings, this torture of an entire population, is essential for Jews to be safe.
And then you have the gall to ever accuse anyone else of being an antisemite. That's just fucking amazing.
shira
(30,109 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)We've covered this ground before, Shira. Your argument is ethically void, inherently anti-semitic and anti-Arab, and needs to be put out to pasture.
I would have thought that during your vacation (maybe you took a sea voyage to Tibet?) you would have thought up some other argument to defend the indefensible.
shira
(30,109 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)You've pretty much stated that Israel's civilians should just take the rockets, wait to be attacked via tunnels...
It's not me saying so.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Where's the outrage?
There were 2 OP's here about this. Both were alerted on and hidden. There was no condemnation of Hamas in either thread.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Does anyone (besides Hamas, I suppose) say these 160 dead children were essential to the safety of Palestine, or for Arabs around the world, the way you say the killing of five hundred children is essential to he defense of israel and the safety of Jews?
Has anyone heaped praise upon Hamas, for "only" getting 160 kids killed in these tunnels, the way you praise - and demand others praise - Israel for "only" killing five hundred or so children?
Did my tax dollars go towards the killing of these children, in the way my tax dollars funded Israel's murder of three times their number?
And why is the death of 160 Palestinian children an outrage to you, while the killing of five hundred Palestinian children something you support without a drop of criticism or angst? Where's your outrage?
We expect Hamas to do terrible things. They're "the bad guys," after all. But Israel - the one we are always told makes upo the 'good guys" here - has outstripped them by far this time. Shouldn't that bother you? Shouldn't you be upset? Shouldn't you look at Israel, those you consider "good guys" and go "Look, that was fucked up"?
You don't. And in fact I wager you can't.
shira
(30,109 posts)In particular, what they did to these 160 children.
The same folks so concerned about what Israel is doing at all times....
Doesn't pass the sniff test.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Or at least, people insistently trying to convince you that "folks" are doing so.
Sort of like how regular Fox news viewers are convinced that "folks" are trying to outlaw Christmas.
shira
(30,109 posts)Human shields is bullshit.
What else can Hamas do but shoot rockets?
News of 160 dead children digging tunnels must be censored.
Who can blame Palestinian children (encouraged by adults) on Hamas TV calling Jews apes & pigs who deserve to die?
Hamas has a right (via terror) to self-defense.
Hamas demands are reasonable, so they should keep attacking Israel until Israel caves to their demands.
Why should Hamas be disarmed?
On and on, spox for Hamas....
How am I wrong?
The only people here cheering on war and death are those who defend and support Hamas' actions. See above. It's interesting to note that NO anti-Zionists here condemned Hamas for breaking so many ceasefire arrangements. They all wanted the war to continue until Israel caved to Hamas demands. Thousands of senseless deaths later, Hamas agreed to a ceasefire they could've had when the war started. No outrage from anti-Zionists against Hamas when they should have been BEGGING Hamas to stop firing rockets.
You called on Israel not to fire back. So Israel agreed to at least 7-8 ceasefires. Hamas kept breaking those ceasefires. You were silent. Israel did what you wanted it to do, agreeing to multiple ceasefires. Had Hamas stopped at the beginning of the war, Israel would've kept their end of the ceasefire arrangement and thousands of deaths would have been avoided.
Why is this difficult for you to comprehend?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but yet you seem to be the only one going on about a supposed 160 children mentioned in a paper written by Nicholas Pelham in 2011 for some reason leading to ask : exactly who's deflecting here and from what exactly?
have you actually read Pelhams paper BTW or just what Jpost and other Rightist sources say about it?, I have and Pelham contradicts himself, it's an interesting read it goes into how tunnel workers in Gaza made more than facotry workers in the West Bank and working in the tunnels was one of the pitifully few means of gainful employment in Gaza
first Pelham states this :
Violations were punished. In 2009–10, for instance, the TAC closed at least five tunnels for smuggling tramadol and two for nonpayment of cigarette taxes. It destroyed an additional fifty nonoperational tunnels to prevent their use as safe houses or conduits to and from Egypt by “wanted” individuals. “We used to earn thousands smuggling small shipments of hand guns, grenades, bullets, and TNT,” said a tunnel operator who first entered the business at the end of the second intifada, “but it is no longer worth the risk to be prosecuted by Hamas.”
http://www.palestine-studies.org/jps/fulltext/42605
then a number of paragraphs later near the end of the paper makes the claim Jpost advertises a conclusion he reaches after accompanying one police patrol, also what is not stated is how any of these children died or how many of them died in the frequent IDF bombing runs on the tunnels
shira
(30,109 posts)....that anti-Zionist concern for Palestinian children is only merited when Israel can be blamed.
Crocodile tears.
Otherwise, anti-Zionists couldn't give a FF about Palestinian children. They're political props, nothing more.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)That you are tossing those 160 around as an outrage (and it is), while, with the same breath, celebrating the slaughter of three times that number.
Political props, you say. Might want to tend the beam in your own eye there, Shira.
shira
(30,109 posts)2 separate OP's on it were hidden.
There's been nothing but deflection in response. A need to censor the story, to defend Hamas.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)for caring about the deaths of Palestinian children, why only now, why not 3 years ago when it was first published ? No need at all to censor it at all, in fact the paper is very lacking in detail as to exactly how these children died, something I for one would like to see filled in, not to mention the very fact that the author of the paper contradicts himself as first he states this:
Violations were punished. In 2009–10, for instance, the TAC closed at least five tunnels for smuggling tramadol and two for nonpayment of cigarette taxes. It destroyed an additional fifty nonoperational tunnels to prevent their use as safe houses or conduits to and from Egypt by “wanted” individuals. “We used to earn thousands smuggling small shipments of hand guns, grenades, bullets, and TNT,” said a tunnel operator who first entered the business at the end of the second intifada, “but it is no longer worth the risk to be prosecuted by Hamas.”
http://www.palestine-studies.org/jps/fulltext/42605
then near the end of paper writes the lone paragraph JPost cites, now if that was his finakl conclusion why leave the first paragraph on the subject he wrote the 2 seem contradictory
shira
(30,109 posts)Those commenting were bashing the source or accusing the poster of propaganda and bullshit.
No condemnation.
Even here, you're giving Hamas every benefit of the doubt. As if making children labor in tunnels, 160 dead, isn't self-explanatory. As though it can be defended.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)or from a very odious source at the very least
shira
(30,109 posts)and here...
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=73050
Surprisingly, I found another story here:
http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/1014856960
Now look at all the comments about "bullshit" on each thread. Denial, deflection...
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)an obvious deflection/justification for what IDF was doing at the time, DU as a whole was highly sensitive to such things and the other was hidden for being an exact reposting of the first one hidden posted minutes after it was hidden no censorship involved and to be honest I was not aware of either of them until now
so once again why wait until now or during Protective Edge to throw up this paper as a bench mark for caring about Palestinian children, why not when it was first published?
shira
(30,109 posts)It was a current Tablet article and the remarks show a BIG time defense/white-washing of Hamas' vile child abuse.
The point is that those most hostile towards Israel about children being killed don't give a FF about children unless Israel can be blamed. This is proven over and over again here.
What's also obvious is the defense of Hamas actions. If it isn't calling "BULLSHIT" on Hamas abusing and killing Gazan kids in tunnels, it's calling bullshit on Hamas human shields or defending Hamas war crimes like publicly executing collaborators. Or defending Hamas' right to "self-defense", or defending Hamas' warmongering decision NOT to accept multiple ceasefires.
These are defenders of Hamas with phony concern about Palestinian children going out of their way to whitewash and minimize what Hamas does. And on top of that, NONE of them believe Jews have a right to self-defense against Hamas fascists.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)why wasn't it called at the time the paper was published in December of 2011? If that can be answered you also have the answer to other questions asked
shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and it should be noted that Pelham's paper only dealt with smuggling tunnels, which IDF was bombing too
shira
(30,109 posts)And what on earth would lead you to believe Hamas wouldn't use children to dig the terror tunnels?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)why on earth would you claim otherwise? and my comment was about Pelham's paper nothing more
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)posted shortly after the first one that was hidden, that is a 7 member DU jury deciding what is acceptable not censorship
post with links to hidden OP's
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=80167
reply to that post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=80168
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)not a peep out of you or any other member of the Pro-Israel community until now, why is that? Suddenly it seems some here are more concerned about about a 3 year old claim that 160 children died in the smuggling tunnels by unknown means whether it be cave-ins or IDF bombing than the nearly 500 that have died clearly due to IDF attacks this past summer, why is that, in fact nearly every time these children are mentioned you bring up those that tragically died working in the smuggling tunnels over a period of years ending 3 years ago , leading to to my first question just who is trying to deflect and from what?
YNET is known for obscuring the truth. The facts were right - israel IS a a child-murdering community. They proved it in the last massacre of Gazans. They think they can fool the world and shame them by calling people who criticize israel "anti-semitic" but it doesn't work any more. The truth is out there, Nutandyahoo, - no one believes you or your people any more.
shira
(30,109 posts)What's the difference between Hamas' vile accusation vs. that of certain anti-Zionists who accuse Israel and the IDF of being bloodthirsty baby killers and mass murderers of children?
4now
(1,596 posts)In her latest post, my colleague Rania Khalek makes reference to “a new racist chant mocking the more than two hundred children slaughtered by Israel’s merciless bombing campaign in Gaza: ‘Tomorrow there’s no school in Gaza, they don’t have any children left.’”
This video shows an Israeli mob actually singing in celebration of children’s deaths in the style of a soccer fans’ song: “In Gaza there’s no studying, No children are left there, Olé, olé, olé-olé-olé.”
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/gaza-graveyard-sing-joyful-israeli-youths
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)the difference between what the elected government of Gazans has to say versus what some moron who nobody ever heard of has to say, right?
4now
(1,596 posts)But back in Jerusalem, where sixteen-year-old Muhammad Abu Khudair was burned alive by Jewish vigilantes in a “revenge killing” incited by Israeli politicians early this month, right-wing lynch mobs continue to roam the streets in search of Arabs to attack. Their most recent victims are twenty-year-old Palestinians Amir Shwiki and Samer Mahfouz from the Beit Hannina neighborhood in occupied East Jerusalem. The pair were severely beaten into unconsciousness on Friday night by Israeli youths armed with iron bars and baseball bats
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/tomorrow-children-israeli
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And its supporters such as yourself, and its citizens, as 4now points out, seem to be celebrating that?
of course, these people don't speak for Jews as a whole. so Hamas is still wrong, even if people like you keep trying so very hard to prove them right.
shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)As demonstrated up and down this entire thread. As regularly demonstrated in numerous other threads you have lurched in on. In fact you praise and salute Israel for "only" killing ~500 children, you hail it as self-defense, a righteous defense of the Jewish people. You refuse to condemn it in any way, and express your whole support for it at every turn. Even to the point where you will pretend that they never died. Or that their own parents killed them.
Indeed, you've got nothing but support and justification for the slaughter of children - and their parents, aunts, uncles, siblings, and neighbors besides. That's what "support for Israel" is all about these days, I guess. If it were ever anything else.
shira
(30,109 posts)Obviously there are many people (here on this forum) who don't believe Jews have any right to defend themselves from fascists who would eagerly massacre them if only they had the power to do so.
Israeli
(4,157 posts)He is a real character shira ....
A plea to Israel from the right: End the Gaza war now
Prominent columnist Ben Dror Yemini, an outspoken critic of the Israeli left, urges Israel to make a move which no one expects – follow a unilateral cease-fire by inviting Hamas to peace talks.
by Bradley Burston | Nov. 19, 2012
There is something different about this war. Yes, it bears the dark ghosts of its predecessors. Still, there is much about this one that suggests that, whether under arms or under fire, we may have learned something from the wars we have somehow survived.
Sometimes it takes a shock. It may be nothing more than a few unexpected words from a familiar source. Someone like prominent Maariv newspaper columnist Ben Dror Yemini, one of the nation's more consistent and often bare-knuckle critics of the Israeli and international left.
Yemini has a message for Israel's leaders: "Bring the fire to a halt now. Immediately."
"It's not pleasant, but you have to admit that the left is correct," he writes. "Nothing good will come out of this operation."
Rather than launch a ground offensive that may be inestimably costly in human life, chip away further at Israel's international standing, and ultimately strengthen Hamas, leaving it capable of making good on threats to strike the Knesset with a missile, Yemini argues, Israel should take initiative in a new direction. End the war now.
In an eerily prescient opinion piece that appeared early Sunday, hours before intensified Israeli air strikes caused an alarming rise in the toll of Palestinian civilian casualties in Gaza, Yemini wrote that the pattern of Israel's ill-fated recent wars in Lebanon (2006) and Gaza ("Cast Lead," 2008-9) was being played out again.
"At the moment, we're equipped with a lovely statement of support from the American administration and with additional voices of backing from European leaders," Yemini notes. In a reference to Cast Lead and the ensuing UN inquiry of possible war crimes by Israel and Hamas, he continues, "That's exactly how it was the last time. It didn't end just with Goldstone. It also ended with Hamas becoming much stronger. Its international support grew, and its means of striking at Israel became more sophisticated."
The long shadows of the Second Lebanon war and the Cast Lead operation, with their grandiose declarations of unattainable goals, political and military infighting, and the sense of defeat having been snatched with fumbling hands from the jaws of victory, appear to have caused reflection among many Israelis known for hardline views.
With the glaring exception of Eli Yishai, the stridently bellicose interior minister, who said at the weekend that "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages," vocally hawkish leaders like Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman have been notably circumspect as to their expectations for the scope and outcome of the current war.
continue reading @ http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/a-plea-to-israel-from-the-right-end-the-gaza-war-now.premium-1.479061
shira
(30,109 posts)Compared to Amira Hass and Gideon Levy, however, EVERYONE else not as "left" as they are must be "right".
Israeli
(4,157 posts)you make a great pair 
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)higher standard than any other country in the region. No country would ever put up with what so many here ask Israel to put up with. First they whine about targeted killings to get the terrorists and then they whine about a war (when civilians ALWAYS die in a war). If they hadn't also bitched about the targeted killings, they may have more credibility in their criticism of Israel.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)John murders 5 children. But Jane murdered 16. Stop calling John a child murderer at once.
This logic doesn't combat anti-semitism. It's simply a device to exonerate Israel and deflect criticism from it. There's nothing progressive in being a bit less of a child murderer than others.
What's next, blood libel? Please.
The OP and a few posts here are disturbing because they conflate Jews and Israel. That's appalling.
shira
(30,109 posts)Why Gaza is Auschwitz, not Iraq or Kosovo. Consider that the US and UK did far worse WRT civilians and children during war and their actions have never been compared to Nazi Germany by any serious commentator.
Realize also that neither US nor UK civilians were being shelled by the enemy, as Israelis were. If that were happening, there's no question a far LARGER proportion of children would have been killed by western coalition forces in Iraq.
But only Israel is a child murdering community.
It doesn't pass the sniff test.
And it's BEYOND obscene to demonize the Jewish state for defending itself against rockets. NO other nation under similar threat would be similarly lambasted. The problem is that Israel's most hostile critics do NOT believe Jews have a right to defend themselves from fascists trying to kill them. Don't believe me? Look at the responses around here when asked. NONE will say outright that Jews have a right to defend themselves against Hamas fascists. It's obvious what's going on....
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)April 28 is the day on which Jews all around the world commemorate the Holocaust. It’s an important day, a somber time for obvious reasons. One would think it would be treated with respect, especially by self-defined “Jewish leaders.” And yet, it comes as no surprise that at least one such leader, the Prime Minister of Israel, would cynically use the memory of the Holocaust to further a political agenda that presses for confrontation and uses the Holocaust memory to further the goal of ongoing occupation.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas made what was probably the clearest statement of sympathy for the history of Jewish suffering in World War II ever by a Palestinian leader. He called it “…the most heinous crime against humanity in modern history.” Abbas continued by offering his sympathy to the “families of the victims and the innocent people who were killed by the Nazis including the Jews and others.” That is a decidedly clear statement, acknowledging the Jews specifically, but also not forgetting that nearly an equal number of non-Jews were killed in the Nazi camps.
Many Jews around the world welcomed Abbas’ statement, as well we should. But Netanyahu used the opportunity to declare once again that “rather than releasing declarations aimed at soothing international public opinion, he must choose between Hamas and true peace.” Bibi dismissed Abbas’ statement as a public relations move.
Well, yes, it was a public relations move, just like similar declarations by various heads of state and other leaders on this day. Just to hammer the irony home, Netanyahu issued his own public relations statement to Israel’s Druze citizens on the occasion of Nebi Shueib holiday. “Nebi Shueib is known in Jewish tradition as Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses, one of the founding fathers of the Jewish People,” Netanyahu said, both co-opting the holiday and, incredibly, misrepresenting Moses’ role in Jewish memory. “This is yet another link between the Jewish People and the Druze community…In recent years I have devoted special attention to continuing the development of Druze villages and to improving their economic and infrastructure situations. It is clear to me that there is more work to be done but the changes may already be felt.”
The brazen hypocrisy of accusing Abbas of acknowledging the Holocaust as a PR stunt and then doing the very same thing with Israel’s Druze community is mind-boggling, but it doesn’t end there. Netanyahu also used the memory of the Holocaust to further his agenda on Iran.
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/04/28/bibis-use-holocaust-memory-not-just-wrong-obscenity
shira
(30,109 posts)....to the Nazis. Nor are their actions compared to the Holocaust, genocide, etc. Even when their actions make Israel's pale in comparison.
Only the Jewish state is compared constantly to Nazi Germany and the reason is obvious. It's Holocaust Inversion, an insidious form of Holocaust Denial.
Jew-baiting.
-Howard Jacobson
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)People/politicians/ compare the US to Nazi's all the time, it's called hyperbole:
If Republicans Don't Want to be Compared to Nazis, They ...
www.politicususa.com/.../republicans-compared-nazis-stop-acting-nazis....
Feb 23, 2014 - Republicans, like the Nazis, want to enforce through legislation ... Some of us during the intervening years have wondered where it would end.
The Islamic State and the Cynicism of Nazi Analogies | VICE ...
https://news.vice.com/.../the-islamic-state-and-the-cynicism-of-nazi-a...
Vice
Aug 30, 2014 - The subtext of any Nazi comparison by a US official is to invoke a moral obligation to engage militarily. A look at post-Cold War US military ...
Richard Mourdock: US Economic Woes Like Nazi Germany
talkingpointsmemo.com/.../richard-mourdock-us-e...
Talking Points Memo
Jun 7, 2014 - Mourdock called the comparison his "most important lesson" as he leaves ... compared the economic situation in the U.S. to Nazi Germany on ...
Ben Carson: No, I'm Not Sorry I Compared U.S. To Nazi ...
talkingpointsmemo.com/.../ben-carson-comparison...
Talking Points Memo
Aug 29, 2014 - A month later, Carson went there again, saying that American society today is very similar to Nazi Germany. "I mean, [our society is] very much ...
American Nazi Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nazi_Party
Wikipedia
The American Nazi Party (ANP) was an American political party founded by George Lincoln Rockwell. Headquartered in Arlington, Virginia, Rockwell initially ...
?George Lincoln Rockwell - ?Frank Collin - ?National Socialist Party of ... - ?Kurt Saxon
How Natural News Compared Us to Pro-GMO Nazis and Put ...
modernfarmer.com/2014/07/natural-news-put-us-hit-list/
Modern Farmer
Jul 29, 2014 - Adams runs NaturalNews, the innocuously named, mystifyingly popular site that for years has existed to attract the gullible and amuse the ...
American Nazi Party
www.americannaziparty.com/
American Nazi Party
Today, according to the latest U.S. Census - only 23% of the American ... Every year, our White children's expected life-style - is declining - compared to the ...
Rand Paul Compares U.S. Government To 'Nazi Germany ...
thinkprogress.org/.../rand-paul-compares-us-government-t...
ThinkProgress
Sep 12, 2012 - Rand Paul (R-KY) compared the federal government's decision to reclaim some of its own property to Nazi Germany's confiscations of ...
What Obama Offers Against ISIS vs. What Churchill Offered ...
spectator.org/.../what-obama-offers-against-isis-v...
The American Spectator
6 days ago - Now compare the above with what Winston Churchill said about his policy and aims against the Nazis in the British House of Commons on May 13, 1940 ... with all our might and with all the strength that God can give to us: to ...
25 Signs That America Is Rapidly Becoming More Like Nazi ...
endoftheamericandream.com/.../20-signs-that-the-nazification-of-americ...
Feb 15, 2012 - The United States of America is becoming more like Nazi Germany ... the 99 percent have ne'er even heard of Zimbabwe, the comparison is ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=US+compared+to+nazis&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp
shira
(30,109 posts)...leads to nearly 40% of Europeans believing Israel is waging a war of extermination against Palestinians.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/study-poles-and-hungarians-believe-jews-take-advantage-of-holocaust-have-too-much-influence/
In Germany, it's 48%. In poland, 63%.
This isn't comparable to criticism of the US or UK. It's straight-up Jew-baiting incitement.
Fascist against Israel from both ends of the political spectrum need to be held responsible for their hate speech and incitement.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)An idiot who will say anything to keep the fear mongering up. Good luck.
shira
(30,109 posts)Should that stop? Is it not idiotic and therefore illegitimate criticism?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)enough to see what Israel has done to the Palestinians. One needs to only read the record
through the human rights groups numerous reports.
shira
(30,109 posts)It's the anti-Israel, anti-Zionist (pro-Palestinian) movement in a nutshell.
A vile movement.
Without the nazi comparisons and demonic hyperbole, there wouldn't be an anti-zionist, pro-Palestinian movement.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)People use hyperbole for many reasons, just like Bibi. It is a poor use of history for
anyone to engage in.
shira
(30,109 posts)However, the anti-Zionist (pro-Palestinian) movement in general CANNOT seem to do so without resorting to demonizing hate rhetoric and incitement. It's part and parcel of the movement.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)I don't think it proves much, and none of it changes what Likud is doing right now and
I doubt much will change unless the Palestinians decide to take up a legal case.
The rest is mostly noise.
