Hamas is Isis says Fatah

[King_David]

There is no difference between the beheadings carried out by Isis and the [Hamas-run] kangaroo courts executing people in Gaza." This was not said by Benjamin Netanyahu, but Fatah leader Tawfik Tirawi this week.
Some of the harshest things said about Hamas in recent days have come from their ostensible unity government partners, Fatah.
Last weekend, the Fatah Central Committee accused Hamas of stealing a large proportion of the aid sent to Gaza by Israel during the recent conflict.
President Mahmoud Abbas has attacked Hamas for repeatedly turning down ceasefire proposals, blaming them for the deaths of over 2,000 Gazans. In response, Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal last Thursday accused the PA of "suppressing the resistance".


http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/122194/hamas-isis-says-fatah

[Scootaloo]

1. Well, I guess netanyahu did achieve his victory aftr all

Unity? What unity?

[LeftishBrit]

18. Unity? Never existed.

[Scootaloo]

25. Well, it's certainly not happening now, is it?

[Fred Sanders]

2. Since we are up to false headlines: "IDF Says Beheading By Bombing is Better, Beheads 2100 Folks"

[King_David]

3. You can start your own thread on that topic of you want ?

[leftynyc]

4. Awwww - I think it's adorable

you want to deflect from the story that hamas isn't nearly as popular as some on DU claims they are. Not really adorable - more predictable and pathetic.

[Fred Sanders]

5. Setting up strawmen and then being outraged as you knock them down is what is pathetic.

[leftynyc]

14. Try looking up the word

strawman before you embarrass yourself further. I'm not the one who changed the topic because you didn't like feeling icky about the story.

[Jefferson23]

6. snip* Palestinian opinion poll conducted in late August shows a clear increase in support for Hamas

Ironically, Abbas and his position on Gaza received more support in Gaza than in the West Bank. Public support for fighters so soon after a war is normal and to be expected. The true test of such support will be seen in the months ahead and in the way the leaders perform on the ground. The reconstruction in Gaza and the way the talks on the airport, seaport and prisoners are conducted in three weeks will speak volumes to the Palestinian public as to whether they should support the Hamas version of military resistance or the Abbas version of nonviolent political diplomacy.

The wish of the majority of Palestinians, as revealed in the August poll, is that their leaders remain united and agree on a unified strategy for the main prize — namely, the end of the occupation and the creation of a genuinely independent state of Palestine.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/09/hamas-fatah-reconstruction-gaza.html#ixzz3Cke2sH1M

[shira]

10. 86% of Palestinians support Hamas rockets...

http://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/489

An overwhelming majority of 86% support the launching of rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israel if the siege and blockade are not ended.

[Jefferson23]

11. Yea, people are funny that way when they've watched their family and friends massacred. n/t

[shira]

12. Pretty bad when 86% want another war, wanting Hamas to shell Israeli civilians...

Their western supporters should advise them on an alternative, don't you think?

[Jefferson23]

15. They want another war? You're in no position to suggest what they want. n/t

[King_David]

22. Agreed and I may add nor are you

[LeftishBrit]

20. And over 90% of Israeli Jews supported the bombing of Gaza.

And IMO, 86% of Palestinians and over 90% of Israeli Jews are WRONG. But that's what a war situation can do to people.

[shira]

24. Really? Do 90% of Jews support intentionally bombing civilians?

There's really no honest comparison here.

[Scootaloo]

27. Apparently 90% of the ones in Israel do n/t

[shira]

32. Please. That's not the question 90% responded affirmatively to. n/t

[azurnoir]

33. It was certainly civilians in Gaza that were being bombed-excuse it anyway you want

you can not change that nor the fact that polls showed that 90% Israeli Jews supported it, even after figure showing the number of civilian deaths including those of children were announced

[shira]

34. Yeah, over 90% of Israel's Jews believe Jews have right to self defense....

....vs. Hamas fascists. That's what the poll means.

A far cry from supporting a bombing campaign aimed specifically at killing civilians.

THAT's what 86% of Palestinians support; terror rockets on a civilian population.

[azurnoir]

47. self defense that results in the death of civilians many of them children

you can spin it any way you wish but using words chosen to paint a politically motivated picture of good guys vs bad guys just doesn't wash anymore

[shira]

49. So tell me, do the Jews have a right to self-defense vs Hamas fascists?

And if so, what would a proportionate military response look like?

[azurnoir]

56. when do Jews? It seems that the Israeli Bedouin killed by Hamas matters very little to some

however that you see no other solution than killing lots of Palestinians in the name of defending according to you "Jews" speaks volumes in and of itself

perhaps Israel should hve kept to the terms of the 2012 cease fire rather than continuously tightening the noose around Gaza, using the slightest excuse to kill civilians who got too close to the unilaterally declared kill zone on the Gaza side of border, ever tightening the fishing limits the entire episode would not have happened

[Scootaloo]

36. The framing doesn't change what happens

"Do you support airstrikes against Gaza" is exactly the same as "Do you support hurling indiscriminate, incendiary devices into densely-populated cities and refugee camps?"

We've covered this, you and I, how using bombs in civilian areas is intentionally targeting civilians.

[shira]

50. So self-defense vs fascist aggression = indiscriminate murder vs innocents

IOW, the good people of the world are not allowed to defend themselves from fascists, ever.

How insane.

[Scootaloo]

52. No, but indiscriminate murder of innocents =/= self defense

Let's be generous to israel. let's not only accept thir definition of "combatant" - every cog in the hamas organization, from fighters with their rockets, to police, to garbage collectors - but let's also round the number of such people killed in protective edge to a nice even 300.

300 Hamas "bad guys" killed... Out of 2,100 total people killed. For every "Hamas" killed, nine civilians. For every two "Hamas" killed, three children. For every "Hamas" killed, one woman. Again, we're rounding "Hamas" up, and expanding the definition to suit Israel. Even doing that, Protective edge has a civilian kill ratio of 9:1. Nine innocent people to every supposed fighter, Shira.

That's not self-defense. That's butchery.

[shira]

54. The ratio is closer to 1:1, which is better than any other western nation at war

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/06/israel-says-gaza-death-toll-11-combatant-civilian-kill-ratio-same-as-in-previous-hamas-wars/

It was 1:1 back in 2008-09 (Cast Lead) even though Hamas and the western defenders falsely claimed a 4:1 ratio back then.

They were wrong then. They're wrong now.

=========

So assume the ratio is 1:1, which is better than the US, UK, France, and other western powers the past 2 decades.

What does that tell you, comparatively?

[shira]

35. 61% of Americans support military action against ISIS

So that apparently means 61% of Americans want the US to intentionally bomb the shit out of civilians, murder babies, commit genocide, etc. Is that what you believe?

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/poll-americans-support-action-against-isis

Imagine what the % would be if America was actually being attacked with rockets, suicide bombings, terror tunnels, etc.

[Scootaloo]

37. Hmmm, do I believe that 61% of Americans want to massacre Arabs?

yeah, actually I do. Just like Israelis - arguably because of Israel - Americans are brought up on a steady diet of hatred and disgust towards Arabs, infused with the belief that their lives don't matter, that their children are all "future terrorists" and their women 'terrorist factories," that their desires, their dreams, their aspirations do not matter and need to be subjugated to the Republicrat agenda of the moment.

since you fear being banned from DU and so do not ever post outside I/P, maybe you've missed my criticism of the president's plan, and proposal of alternatives - unfortunately military action is still going to be needed, but there are far more precise ways to take it, than "drop bombs and carry on."

[shira]

51. You wrote about supporting an Iran-Syria-Turkey-Iraq effort vs ISIS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014884769#post43

We're doing exactly what we need to be doing - backing up the Iraqis in their efforts to take these guys on. Honestly we should also be trying to encourage an Iraq-Syria-Iran-Turkey coalition against the group, but that runs up against the age-old American agenda of a destabilized middle east.

So you support funding/arming others to carry out massacres & war-crimes, so long as US troops aren't participating in the genocide.



Another big problem with your idea is that Turkey supports ISIS.

[shaayecanaan]

7. Apparently Isis does not agree

[King_David]

8. Do you find ISIS to be a reliable source ?

[shaayecanaan]

9. when it comes to ISIS?

then yes. I would imagine that ISIS knows quite a bit about ISIS. In fact, I think ISIS knows most things there are to know about ISIS. If one wanted to know anything about ISIS then I think looking to ISIS would be a good way to start.

But I dunno. Maybe the boys from WINEP or CAMERA would know more about ISIS than ISIS. They certainly claim to know more about Arabs than Arabs themselves, their complete lack of Arabic skills notwithstanding.

[King_David]

13. I know

Kind of like the experts on Jews and Jewish culture that I see all the time .

[Scootaloo]

28. Yeah, like all those people who pretend to be Jews on the internet...

[King_David]

29. Yes

[Scootaloo]

39. And have you bumped into people who pretend to be gay people on the internet as well?

It's amazing really, that people think claiming to be some minority or other, gives them cover when they go on some sort of hate spree against another group.

[King_David]

41. Nope

Haven't found that to be a big problem.

[Scootaloo]

43. Well, I'm unaware of the numbers

But I've certainly run into right-wingers who think playing "five minority pileup" is a good way to troll liberal groups.

[King_David]

45. Are you accusing me of something?

Did I welcome you back from your latest Hiatus from DU, yet?

[LeftishBrit]

21. Not on most things; but they're pretty reliable on the subject of who they regard as enemies

Admittedly, that is almost everyone!

[King_David]

53. They also call themselves the "Islamic" state

And from what I can see they are not very Islamic at all.

I disagree with you : ISIS are not a good source to trust on ANYTHING .

[Mycos]

16. Untrue

The problem with that notion is the simple fact that Hamas hasn't advocated nor made any attempt to make or enforce sharia upon the population of Gaza. IOW Hamas simply isn't nearly as extreme as Zionists have desperately sought to make them out to be...especially in the minds of Americans whose government maintains control of a UN whose members have long had to settle for mere statements of displeasure at Israel's ongoing violations of international law concerning human rights, civil rights and violations of the laws of armed conflict amounting to war crimes.

[King_David]

17. "Hamas hasn't advocated nor made any attempt to make or enforce"

Your kidding, right?

[LeftishBrit]

19. Hamas are a disastrous party but are not ISIS; only ISIS is ISIS.

[King_David]

23. Fatah seems to think different though

But then there's no love lost between any of these groups.

[Scootaloo]

26. Yeah, and Israel's government says William Schabas is also like ISIS

ISIS is being used as boogeyman in both instances.

[King_David]

30. Link for that please ,

I think I missed that.

Calling Schabas ISIS is totally ridiculous nonsense .

The Palestinian Fatah party calling Hamas ISIS is not that far off the mark... Similar hatred for Jews, similar methods, similar religious dundamentilism,similar tactics , similar hatreds, similar homophobia and hatred of Gays....Etc etc etc

[Scootaloo]

38. Here you go

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Known-Israel-critic-to-lead-UNHRC-Gaza-probe-370926

UN ambassadors speak for their government. Prosor likens Scabas to ISIS.

[King_David]

40. Bit of a stretch ,

From the article :
"“Forming an investigatory committee headed by Schabas is like inviting ISIS to organize religious tolerance week at the UN,” Prosor told Army Radio."

He wasn't likening Schabas to ISIS .

Granted it was a ridiculous thing to say bit nothing at all like what you said the government if Israel said .

Try again Scootaloo cos this one you failed.

[Scootaloo]

42. It's a direct comparison, by the Israeli ambassador

UN ambassadors don't tend to go off-script.

Maybe you can show me where the Netanyahu government has rebuked the ambassador for his foolish statement that runs counter to the state's position.

[King_David]

44. It was nothing like a direct comparason at all

Not even close

[Shaktimaan]

46. Hahaha.

Wow. I've marveled at your ability to see the world solely through Israel-hating lenses but if you actually believe what you wrote then you have a pretty serious learning disability.

[shira]

55. Similar to religious fanatics who cannot distinguish facts/logic from fiction....

There are propagandists who don't even realize when they're lying. It just comes naturally.

I find it simply fascinating.

[louis-t]

31. Jeez, I need a scorecard....

[bemildred]

48. ISIS is the new Hitler. nt