Saudi foreign minister: we must denounce our hatred toward Israel..

[hack89]

Speaking on the sidelines of the world assembly of Islamic scholars in Jeddh, Saud bin Faisal Al Saud said that the Middle-East needs peace and co-existence more than ever and Saudi Arabia as a leading Islamic country is ready to make sacrifices in peace negations and encourages President Abbas to follow the same policy.

Referring to the ongoing war in Gaza strip, the Saudi foreign Minster stressed that Hamas authority is the sole responsible for Palestinian calamity and they must brought before the law. The Saudi official further added that Arab World Increasingly Frustrated With Hamas which is seeking more wars.

In recent day Israel’s air-strikes against Gaza Strip drew many condemnations from the Arab oil-rich states of the Persian Gulf, while Saudi media is increasingly open in criticizing defiant Hamas for resisting Israeli aggression against impoverished Palestinian enclave.

Media in Saudi Arabia and Egypt blame Hamas’ actions for Israeli war and prioritizing conflict over the safety of the Gazan population and criticized the leadership for waging war far from the conflict, a Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) report shows.

http://awdnews.com/top-news/9417-saudi-foreign-minister-we-must-denounce-our-hatred-toward-israel-and-begin-normalize-ties-with-jewish-nation.html

[Scootaloo]

1. Conspicuous silence about his nation's funding of ISIS, however...

Among a number of other groups horrible enough to make Hamas look positively moderate in comparison.

The Saudi's criticism of Hamas is not due to principle, but rather do to hamas not being a Salafist organization with fealty to the Saudi king. Nothing more.

[Jefferson23]

3. Conspicuous indeed. n/t

[King_David]

18. ISIS makes Hamas look moderate?

That's absurd .

[Scootaloo]

21. By comparison, yeah

The only absurdity is your apparent defense of ISIS here.

[King_David]

30. Defense ??

ISIS and Hamas are the same homophobic fucks . Why would a gay dude defend either?

[Scootaloo]

33. Yes, defense

ISIS is vastly worse than Hamas. Your saying they aren't is in effect a diminishment of what ISIS has done and is doing.

[King_David]

35. They both fucking awful.

The world is just concentrating on ISIS now, they done with Gaza.

[Scootaloo]

39. Yes they are, but one is indeed quite worse than the other

And with that in mind, ISIS does indeed make Hamas look moderate by comparison.

Think of how the constitutuion party makes the republicans look moderate. Doesn't make the Republicans good guys, it just means the constitution party is that batshit insane.

[King_David]

44. Not true ,

Hamas and ISIS are just as brutal as each other , just as violent , just as homophobic , as fundamentalist as each other as regressive as each other . Both terrorist organization that hate women gays Jews and other people . Both offshoots and ally's of the Muslim brotherhood .

There is hardly any difference at all.

[Scootaloo]

46. Point of fact, they're not

Hamas hasn't actually committed genocide. Hamas doesn't engage in battlefield cannibalism. Hamas hasn't beheaded people, that I'm aware of, and certainly hasn't done so for a foreign audience. Hamas doesn't pose a risk to anyone on a national scale, in the way ISIS does. hamas is not engaging in a campaign of cultural obliteration.

if you want to stick by "they're both awful," then I'm right there with you. But no, no they are not equals in regards of brutality and threat posed.

[King_David]

48. Grasping at straws in your defense of the indefensible

Hamas and ISIS are like 2 peas in a pod.

[Scootaloo]

49. No, just pointing out they are not equally awful

Don't worry Dave. All of us here understand why you're making the effort to push this false equivalency. I'm just trying to inform you that it's not so, that it's not actually supported by reality.

[King_David]

50. I'm not worried

Only here would all of you not know this .
In the real world , not so much.

Real equivalence , there ain't nothing false about it.

[Jefferson23]

2. Yikes, talk about hypocrisy..the Saudi rulers and Sisi agree that their enemy should be punished.

Because they're all about human rights and self determination for their people, lol.

[Scootaloo]

5. Hasbarists use Saudi Arabia and now Egypt the way right-wingers use Bill Cosby

"You see!? Even their own people think they're terrible!"

never occurs that maybe Bill - or in this case, the Sauds and Sisi - are just gigantic fucking assholes who no one should listen to about anything.

[Jefferson23]

6. Convenient, yep. It is telling that they're not curious to look a bit deeper and realize the

broader meaning and the unrest these corrupt asshole leaders keep alive in the ME.

But any port in a storm and all that.

[hack89]

9. It is simply putting Gaza in the proper perspective regarding their Arab neighbors

they don't care about Gaza right now - the Palestinians have never been more than a weapon against Israel to them. Now they are deciding that perhaps Israel will be more important to them than Hamas. Hamas needs to tread lightly here.

[Jefferson23]

10. Right now? They were never much to begin with and even less so as the ME became weaker

weaker..that is one reason the Arab league agreed to change their initiative on a settlement
for the Palestinians that would agree with the Kerry plan on land swaps that would disenfranchise
them and the possibility of a viable state became more elusive than ever.

Those leaders are a bunch of scoundrels, and the Saudis in particular have been an
ever present threat to human rights, unrest and terrorism for a long time.

[hack89]

14. ISIS is a mortal threat to the established powers.

Hamas needs to choose their side carefully - if they are perceived as the enemy then there will never be an independent Palestine.

It, of course, is a given that an ISIS victory also means no Palestinian state - there is no room for an independent Palestine in the Caliphate.

[Jefferson23]

16. I'm not sure what you're getting at..Hamas wants nothing to do with ISIS.

Hamas is the symbol of resistance and they're in the way for the time being of a defeat the Saudis and
Egypt are more than happy to go along with..that defeat is about a shit deal likely to
leave the Palestinians with much less than what they deserve.

[hack89]

19. Hamas is also a fundamentalist terrorist organization

with a long history of violence. The rest of the Arab world has grown weary of terror in the name of Islam - too many Muslims are dying. Hamas is not seen in the context of Palestinian liberation - the Arabs could give two shits about that. They are seen in the context of what kind of future threat their strain of fanaticism represents - right now they are looked upon with a jaundiced eye.

[Jefferson23]

26. Hamas, for now, is in the way..what they represent is resistance, a no no in those leaders eyes.

Too many Muslims are dying? Correct, at the hand of those who rule Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

You are terribly confused...Hamas is not ISIS and they both know it.

Don't forget to compliment the successful career of Bandar and where the money came
from for ISIS, initially.

[hack89]

31. Never said they are ISIS

I said they are being tarred with the same brush.

[Jefferson23]

32. Ok, and they're wrong to do so..but it fits their agenda. n/t

[hack89]

36. Hamas is a violent wild card

That is why they have to be walled off. Right now Israel may be much more valuable to the Arabs than the Palestinians.

[Jefferson23]

41. No military solution was/is necessary to quell Hamas. The Palestinians were not treated well long

before suicide bombers. Israel is valuable against ISIS? None of them seem to know what they're
going to do..except rely on killing them. I wonder how well that will work out considering past
performances with that approach, not suggesting ISIS is not crazy..they are.

[hack89]

43. Israel cannot give what Hamas wants.

Putting aside their belief that all of Israel is occupied territory, issues like complete RoR are non- starters and Hamas knows it.

[Jefferson23]

45. If you move past the rhetoric that is passed along as accurate you'll see they are not

the wackos Israel makes them out to be. They have done terrible things/committed
war crimes and such, and so has Israel. Time to negotiate and give the Palestinians
what is rightfully theirs..their own state.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

47. Hamas and ISIS are enemies.

They don't need to choose their side carefully at all.

[King_David]

51. Not exactly enemies ,no

They both off shoots of Muslim Brotherhood and they both have many enemies in common .

[Jefferson23]

52. You need to tell that to al-Qaeda, since they rebuke Hamas as non believers.

ISIS is an offshoot of the MB....that needs a link.

[King_David]

53. Connections between Muslim Brotherhood and Islamic State: Ministry of Religious Endowments

http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2014/08/02/connections-muslim-brotherhood-islamic-state-ministry-religious-endowments/

[Jefferson23]

54. You really need to think about your sources. Do you understand what happened in Egypt?

Or are you of the belief that what occurred there was all for the best? Yay, Sisi! 900 people
were massacred.

*As the Egyptian government continues to crack down on the ousted Muslim Brotherhood, the Ministry of Awqaf (religious endowments) took control of several mosques controlled by the Islamist group on Friday.
http://www.aawsat.net/2014/01/article55326528

No agenda going on there..nah.

[hack89]

8. No - the bigger point is that the Palestinians are not important to the Arabs right now

and the entire ISIS mess, as it potentially reshapes the ME, has the potential to be disastrous to the Palestinians. Hamas does not want to be on the wrong side of the equation.

It is a given that every Arab leader is a gigantic fucking asshole - those are the kind of people that run despotic countries. But the fate of the Palestinians is ruled by such people.

[Jefferson23]

11. And? They should not be supported in their bullshit to minimize the Palestinian quest for

self determination..fuck them.

[hack89]

12. You have to face reality some time

the fate of the Palestinians has always been out of their own hands.

[Jefferson23]

13. I believe they're well aware of that fact...and maybe others will begin to understand the resistance

once and for all. This can lead one to see which players are the greatest threat in the ME
and who tolerates them.

[hack89]

15. The Palestinians have always been nothing more than pawns

they have earned the hatred and mistrust of all their neighbors - the notion that the Arabs want or support a Palestinian state is nonsense.

It is easy to understand the resistance. That does not automatically make it right or noble. It certainly does not guarantee it's success.

[Jefferson23]

17. Earned the hatred and mistrust? I think you're very confused on their history...I'll leave it there.

[hack89]

20. Black September and Beirut for starters

Palestinians have this nasty habit of waging war against Israel from other countries. In Jordan they attempted to carve out a Palestinian state. They brought nothing but trouble and violence.

Lets not forget a simple fact of history - when the West Bank and Gaza were controlled by Jordan and Egypt there was absolutely no mention of establishing a Palestinian state. Why do you think that was?

[Jefferson23]

23. Like I said, you're confused on their history. Egypt and the Saudis do not hate them, they are

willing to serve them up now for expediency and their own political agendas.

[hack89]

25. They have never been anything more than a weapon against Israel

plain and simple.

[Jefferson23]

29. They're weak now in part due to their own doing..oppression

and torture of dissenters...the ME is weak. You're misrepresenting their history as if all it
was ever about was to hate on Israel. If you look at past UN resolutions the Arab league supported a just
resolve to the conflict..Israel and the US rejected it, over and over again. It has not changed because
they suddenly see Hamas as the same as ISIS, they want the issue of the conflict to go away and
at any price to the Palestinians. Even if Hamas was entirely disarmed, you think Israel is going to give
back the West Bank? Good luck selling that.

They're helping to sell out the Palestinians and should be condemned for it.

[Shaktimaan]

55. Really?

So the oppression, violence, expulsions, etc., against Palestinians throughout the Arab world is just a figment of our collective imaginations? It seems suspicious to me that someone would care so deeply about the Nakba in 48 while completely ignoring the expulsions of 400,000 from Kuwait in 93, or the stripping of Jordanian citizenship from millions in 88.

[Scootaloo]

22. Don't say "no" and then conform what I just asserted. It doesn't work that way.

[hack89]

24. Ok - then we see eye to eye on the issue

good

[Scootaloo]

28. That you use "other Arabs" the same way the right uses Bill Cosby? I guess so.

[hack89]

34. Not that

I agree that all Arab leaders are assholes. The bigger point that you are missing is their present treatment of the Palestinians makes sense.

[Scootaloo]

37. And again, you are affirming my point, regarding what you're doing

"See, my hate is justified, even this other Arab over here hates them!"

[hack89]

38. Just pointing out a reality you want to ignore

It is not that the Palestinians are hated. They are just irrelevant at the moment.

[Scootaloo]

40. Keep it coming, hack89

Really, #1 thing when you're arguing with someone - don't showcase their position for them.

[hack89]

42. ok. nt

[COLGATE4]

4. The 'hanging out to dry' of Hamas by other Arabs

will begin in 3......2......1......

[oberliner]

7. No evidence provided here that he actually said that

I'd love to get a direct quote if such a thing exists.

[jwirr]

27. It wil have to be a two way street. Peace never works if it is onesided.