Britain's Channel 4 host Jon Snow decimates Israeli PM propaganda spokesperson on air

[Larkspur]

From Kerry to Selena Gomez & Rihanna, Israel’s Claims of Precision, Compassion Are Dissed
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/kerry_to_selena_gomez_rihanna_israels_claims_precision_compassion_20140721

Snow's store is the second one on Juan Cole's article.

I like the fact that Snow points out that Israel's use of military action in the past has not resolved the problem with Gaza.

Wish our news anchors could do likewise. Chris Hayes, who also interviewed Mark Regev, the Israeli Prime Minister's propaganda spokesperson, came the closet and I admit Hayes is doing his best with the time constraints he has.

[shira]

1. Perfect example of Hamas propaganda. Snow did not once object to....

....nor did he acknowledge the difficulty Israel is having with Hamas shooting rockets at Israel while embedding itself within a civilian population. His only objective was to bash Israel.

You cannot advocate for Palestinian civilian lives while shrugging at what Hamas is DELIBERATELY doing to Palestinians in Gaza, pretending Hamas is NOT the problem. You can't be pro-Hamas and pro-Palestinian at the same time.

[Larkspur]

2. Those rockets did not kill a single Israeli

but Israel has killed over 500 Palestinians today with their bombing and ground invasion.

And as Snow pointed out, Israel used military action 3 other times against Hamas and Hamas is still standing. Military action only temporarily stopped Hamas' rockets. They will be back again after Israel departs Gaza, because the rockets are a symptom of a bigger problem -- Israel's ongoing blockade and siege of Gaza that has turned Gaza into one of the poorest places on our planet. It's an open air prison and when people don't have just peace and a just economy, don't be surprised when rockets start flying again.

[shira]

3. You cannot be heartbroken about Palestinians while denying...

...ignoring, minimizing, or explaining away Hamas' strategy (using them as shields).

Hamas embedding themselves within the population & daring Israel to attack launch sites and terror tunnels (in homes, schools, mosques) is the MAIN cause of death for Palestinians in Gaza.

You and Snow will not acknowledge this because of your hostility towards Israel. It's certainly not that you're heartbroken about Palestinians. You cannot be pro-Hamas and pro-Palestinian at the same time. That's impossible.

[Larkspur]

4. Hamas is not using it's citizens as human schields. That is pure Israeli propaganda

As Jon Stewart said the other day, "Where are Gazans suppose to flee to? It's a teeny land."

The population of Gaza elected Hamas into power using free democratic elections. Hamas is not made up of foreigners. They are Gazans.

Gaza is an open air prison that Israel built with the intention of stealing Palestinian land, which is the underlying source of the conflict in that land.

Israel can not be a democracy and an apartheid state, which it is. They will have to chose one or the other eventually or just commit complete genocide of the Palestinians people and become a pariah state.

[shira]

6. Of course they are. They've admitted it on video many times...

Here are 2 of the more blatant videos. The 1st video is from the past week and the 2nd is from the time period of the 2008-09 Gaza war.

Their media guidelines forbid anyone reporting from Gaza to mention their rockets being fired from civilian neighborhoods. 20 missiles were just "found" in a UN school building.

You cannot defend Hamas and claim to be pro-Palestinian when they are very deliberately committing war crimes against Gazans.

[azurnoir]

19. the second video is not from the OCL time period it is from May i5 of that year

OCL started on 12/27 fully more that 7 months later and that is the upload date not the date of the 3/4 of a minute from the speech

as for the second actually current one we discussed that here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113466980#post30

[shira]

20. Are you denying these intentional war crimes by Hamas vs Palestinians? n/t

[azurnoir]

22. the second video selectively plucked 46 seconds of a speech with absolutely no context

something PMW/MEMRI has a 'strange' habit of doing and the second if Hamas was forcing people to get on the roof tops of their houses in an attempt to save then from being destroyed that would indeed be a war crime however there was absolutely no indication of that people seemed to be desperately attempting to save their homes

it seems the definition of human shield has been 're-adjusted' beyond all recognition

[shira]

23. Unreal. n/t

[BillZBubb]

31. Yes, your allegiance to Israeli propaganda is unreal.

You keep falling back on the tired, disproven by the facts "human shield" LIE. Those boys playing soccer on the beach weren't human shields. They were kids playing a game. Israel killed them anyway.

You should be ashamed, but zealots know no shame..

[shira]

34. No, the denial here (despite video evidence) is simply unreal

Hamas was just caught storing 20 missiles in a UN school building and not a peep from the deniers. No outrage at Hamas. Nothing.

Even Hamas' media guidelines demands not mentioning their military activities within civilian areas.

For fcuk's sake!

[840high]

38. They said they were.

[Ken Burch]

9. Stop calling people "Pro-Hamas" just because they don't defend the bombing of Gaza.

It's a despicable smear and you know it. There is nothing the people of Gaza can do about Hamas.

[shira]

11. How can you look at the 2 videos in #6 as well as the links...

….showing Hamas' war crimes against Gazans, how do you DENY or IGNORE what Hamas is doing to Palestinians, and THEN say with a straight face you're concerned about Palestinian civilian casualties?

How's that possible?

Explain that one to me please.

[Ken Burch]

16. Simple...the PEOPLE of Gaza aren't responsible for what Hamas is doing.

In a dictatorial situation, you don't punish the people for the actions of the regime.

The people of Gaza have no way of getting rid of Hamas.

[shira]

18. Maybe you misunderstood. I'm talking from a western, pro-Palestinian advocate...

…perspective.

How does someone who says they care about Palestinians being killed in Gaza DENY or IGNORE the blatant war crimes (human shielding) Hamas is deliberately perpetrating on Palestinians?

[azurnoir]

24. define human shield

and excuse me but aren't human shields supposed to stop an entity from bombarding/shooting at the target? So how can people be human shields when as we plainly have been shown most recently and graphically in Shujai'iya their presence does little to nothing as a deterrence to the ones shooting at them, when used in this context the term merely becomes a cover for those killing lots of civilians

[shira]

25. Seriously? From the ICRC

The prohibition of using human shields in the Geneva Conventions, Additional Protocol I and the Statute of the International Criminal Court are couched in terms of using the presence (or movements) of civilians or other protected persons to render certain points or areas (or military forces) immune from military operations.[18] Most examples given in military manuals, or which have been the object of condemnations, have been cases where persons were actually taken to military objectives in order to shield those objectives from attacks. The military manuals of New Zealand and the United Kingdom give as examples the placing of persons in or next to ammunition trains.[19] There were many condemnations of the threat by Iraq to round up and place prisoners of war and civilians in strategic sites and around military defence points.[20] Other condemnations on the basis of this prohibition related to rounding up civilians and putting them in front of military units in the conflicts in the former Yugoslavia and Liberia.[21]

In the Review of the Indictments in the Karadžić and Mladić case, the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia qualified physically securing or otherwise holding peacekeeping forces against their will at potential NATO air targets, including ammunition bunkers, a radar site and a communications centre, as using “human shields”.[22]

It can be concluded that the use of human shields requires an intentional co-location of military objectives and civilians or persons hors de combat with the specific intent of trying to prevent the targeting of those military objectives.

http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_cha_chapter32_rule97

Hamas is guilty as hell of doing that to their civilians.

[azurnoir]

26. you left out some parts accidentally I'm sure

The prohibition of using human shields is contained in numerous military manuals, many of which extend the prohibition to all civilians.[3] Using human shields constitutes a criminal offence under the legislation of many States.[4] This practice includes that of States not, or not at the time, party to Additional Protocol I or to the Statute of the International Criminal Court.[5] In 1990 and 1991, there was extensive condemnation by States of the use of prisoners of war and civilians by Iraq as human shields, and the United States declared that such use amounted to a war crime.[6] The use of prisoners of war as human shields during the Second World War was the subject of war crimes trials by the UK Military Court at Lüneberg in the Student case in 1946 and by the US Military Tribunal at Nuremberg in the Von Leeb (The High Command Trial) case in 1948.[7] In the Karadžić and Mladić case in 1995 before the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, the accused were charged with war crimes for using UN peacekeepers as human shields. In its review of the indictments the Tribunal upheld this charge.[8]
With respect to non-international armed conflicts, Additional Protocol II does not explicitly mention the use of human shields, but such practice would be prohibited by the requirement that “the civilian population and individual civilians shall enjoy general protection against the dangers arising from military operations”.[9] It is significant, furthermore, that the use of human shields has often been equated with the taking of hostages,[10] which is prohibited by Additional Protocol II,[11] and by customary international law (see Rule 96). In addition, deliberately using civilians to shield military operations is contrary to the principle of distinction and violates the obligation to take feasible precautions to separate civilians and military objectives (see Rules 23–24).
Several military manuals which apply in non-international armed conflicts prohibit the use of human shields.[12] The legislation of several States criminalizes the use of human shields in non-international armed conflicts.[13] The use of human shields in non-international armed conflicts has been condemned by States and by the United Nations, for example, with respect to the conflicts in Liberia, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Tajikistan and the former Yugoslavia.[14]
No official contrary practice was found.
The ICRC has reminded parties to both international and non-international armed conflicts of the prohibition of using human shields.[15]
International human rights law does not prohibit the use of human shields as such, but this practice would constitute, among other things, a violation of the non-derogable right not to be arbitrarily deprived of the right to life (see commentary to Rule 89). The UN Human Rights Committee and regional human rights bodies have indicated that this right involves not only the right not to be killed, but also the duty of States to take measures to protect life.[16] In Demiray v. Turkey, in which the applicant submitted that her husband had been used as a human shield, the European Court of Human Rights stated that “Article 2 may … imply in certain well-defined circumstances a positive obligation on the authorities to take preventive operational measures to protect an individual for which they are responsible”.[17]

[BillZBubb]

32. Their is nothing "accidental" about shira's Israeli propaganda.

[shira]

37. What u bolded still shows Hamas is committing war crimes. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

14. Who the fu*k are you to preach anything WRT how others have to act?

[shira]

21. My argument is that it's impossible for anyone who is truly pro-Palestinian….

…to deny or ignore Hamas' intentional war crimes that they are perpetrating against their Palestinian victims. Pro-Palestinians should be horrified by what Hamas is doing to them and BEG Hamas to stop. To deny or ignore what Hamas is doing to Palestinians is decidedly ANTI-Palestinian.

How am I wrong?

[Ken Burch]

8. And Snow wasn't BEING pro-Hamas.

He simply refuted the claim that Hamas' actions justify what's being done to innocent civilians in Gaza.

[shira]

10. He couldn't even acknowledge the situation Israel is in….

…when Hamas embeds itself within a civilian population while attacking Israel. If Snow were to simply acknowledge reality rather than spew his pro-Hamas talking points, he wouldn't have an argument to make.

"Yes, I realize the tough situation Israel is in but…"?

He's a shill.

[Ken Burch]

12. The thing is, if Israel bombs those areas, they're giving Hamas what it wants.

And what's the good of the bombings when they don't STOP the rockets being launched?

Whatever you can say about this situation, what Netanyahu is doing here isn't working for the good of ordinary Israelis.

It's working very well, however, for Likud and the parties to Likud's right...parties that can only retain support if Netanyahu makes sure the war never ever ends.

[shira]

13. And if Israel does nothing but allow more rockets & more terror tunnel….

…infiltrations, then the Israeli body count will rise. That's not a realistic option when Israel can try its best to target Hamas, the launchers, and tunnels while doing whatever it can to minimize civilian casualties.

And Jon Snow is still a raving lunatic hater.

[Ken Burch]

15. The answer is negotiations

The bombings aren't working and can't ever work. And the people of Gaza don't deserve to die for what Hamas does.

[shira]

17. Okay, so Israel will negotiate peace w/ Hamas once the USA negotiates peace...

…with Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Boko Haram.

[truebluegreen]

27. And so it continues until the whole world is ashes.

Great friggin' plan.

[shira]

28. Do you think the USA can have serious negotiations with Al-Qaeda or Boko Haram? n/t

[truebluegreen]

29. I see what you are doing.

The topic is Israel and Palestine.

[shira]

30. It's just as ridiculous for Israel to expect reasonable...

….negotiations with Hamas as it is for America to do the same with Boko Haram or Al-Qaeda.

Deal with the reality.

[truebluegreen]

36. The reality is that Israel is out-of-bounds here

and many are waking up to that fact.

Deal with the reality.

[Fozzledick]

5. "You know nothing, Jon Snow!"

(Somebody had to say it!)

[shira]

7. Snow is vile. I watched at least 3-4 videos of him going at it….

…with Israeli officials. Pro-Hamas mouthpiece & attack dog.

In one of the videos, he's calling for an independent investigation. The Israeli official tells him Gaza is an authoritarian regime and it's like going to Syria asking people about their opinion on Assad, or N.Korea and asking about Kim. What do you expect people to say in a closed authoritarian regime? Snow had no rebuttal, cut him off…

Nasty PoS.

[BillZBubb]

33. But John Snow knows an Israeli liar when he sees one.

And he saw one and called him out.

[randys1]

35. He said "you dont have the courage" at the end, wow...but notice how civil and intelligent the two

are, compare that to here