Fatah joins Hamas and Islamic Jihad in missile launches

[shira]

Armed groups linked to Fatah say they began launching rockets and mortar shells into Israel Wednesday evening, in the first indication of Mahmoud Abbas’s movement actively taking part in violence emanating from Gaza.

The Nidal Al-Amody force of Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades claimed responsibility for firing Grad and 107 millimeter rockets toward Ashkelon, Sderot, Netivot, Kibbutz Ein Hashlosha and the Sufa Crossing from Gaza, starting at 5 p.m Wednesday. Communiques specifying the attacks were published on Fatah’s official Facebook page.

Early Thursday morning, another armed force associated with Fatah, the Abdul Qader Husseini Battalions, claimed responsibility for launching two Grad rockets at Ashkelon and four mortar shells at Kibbutz Nir Oz near Khan Yunis shortly after one a.m.

“This blessed operation came as an answer to the enemy’s repeated crimes against our defenseless people,” read a statement on the group’s website. The claim of responsibility was also posted on Fatah’s official Facebook page.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/moderate-fatah-joins-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-in-missile-launches/#ixzz374Qz2bRV

[shira]

1. Fatah's military unit admits to firing 35 rockets at Israel

Facebook, Fatah - The Main Page - July 7, 2014

Posted on Fatah’s Facebook page, “Fatah – ?The Main Page”?
Text: “The Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades – ‘Al-?Asifa’ (Fatah’s military unit) admit to having ?targeted the enemy’s bases and settlements ?with 35 rockets.”?

Note:? The Facebook page where this item was ?posted, called "Fatah - The Main Page," is an ?official Fatah Facebook page. The page defines ?itself as belonging to the Fatah Mobilization and ?Organization Commission. Each Fatah ?commission has an official website. The official ?website of Fatah's Mobilization and ?Organization Commission links to this ?Facebook page.?

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=471&doc_id=11943

[Scootaloo]

2. While I was at work today Shira, i got to thinking...

It's numbing work, lots of time to let my brain just shuffle around in there.

At what point do the Palestinians get to invoke self-defense? Now before you pipe up, yes, yes I am aware that some shithead or other in gaza "cast the first stone."

But are the people of Gaza expected to just roll over on their backs and wait to die? is the Palestinian government supposed to watch its peopl get killed by a foreign power and do nothing?

Are they, in your phrasing, "supposed to just take it?"

Share your thoughts, please.

[King_David]

3. Here is Hamas' self defense

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=66694


Admitting to trying to hit the Nuclear Reactor .

Fucking batshit loony "self defense "is what that is.

[Scootaloo]

4. You're evading the question

But that's okay, I was asking Shira.

[King_David]

6. No evasion it Illustrates what Israel is dealing with.

[Scootaloo]

9. Idiots who think pipe bombs will hurt seven feet of reinforced concrete?

Yeah, that's a pretty mighty level of derp.

Though I think the dumbfucks who seem to think Israel builds power plants out of tissue paper and unicorn farts are pretty dumb, too.

[King_David]

12. Maybe the next government of Palestine aka Hamas never realized

Or Knew all they had were pipe bombs or there was reinforced protective concrete.

It never stopped The suicidal homocidal fucked up crazies of the future government from trying.

That's who Israel's dealing with .

[Scootaloo]

18. Like I said - dumbasses.

but then, isn't Israel the nation that keeps trying to get the US to bomb Iran's nuclear reactors? And... aren't you someone who thinks that's a really awesome idea?

And didn't Israel bomb Gaza's primary means of acquiring fresh water a few years back? I mean I'll grant it's not a nuclear plant, but you have to admit, that still puts a lot of people at harm - especially now that the plant's minimal functionality can't handle the population's waste, and is resulting in a steady pollution of the coastal water that serves as their primary livelihood...

Didn't you also think that was a swell idea?

What was it your favorite congressman, democrat chuck Schumer said? we have to strangle the Arabs until they comply? great guy. Also something Palestine has to deal with.

[King_David]

27. Sounds like a bunch of excuses for a crazy

They admit to trying to create a nuclear explosion.

Maniacal group who have crossed the red line of civil.
Suicidal and homocidal Hamas the next government of Palestine and now wannabe mass murderers .

[Scootaloo]

29. No, they admit targeting a nuclear power plant.

i want you to put on your thinking cap for a moment



If the one water purification plant in all of gaza i a viable military target for israel to destroy... then would a gazan nuclear power plant also be a legitimate target for bombing? Pure theory of course, but i'm curious as to whether you think israel would leave it alone or blow it sky-high (or dirt flat, more accurately...)

[shira]

13. Yeah, Israel should def. lift the blockade & allow Hamas to load up.....

....with more sophisticated missiles with deadlier warheads so that next time there'll be a better chance of success when they aim for Dimona.

[Scootaloo]

15. Maybe Arab nations should blockade petroleum from israel

To prevent another East Jerusalem barbeque?

[shira]

17. #Moral.Equivalence.Fail

Israel didn't do that, and in fact Israel's gov't and people universally condemned that - as they should have.

You're so desperate to equate Israel with Hamas, why?

[Scootaloo]

22. Israel didn't do it?

Must have been that other violently expansionist state that exports its extremists and excess population into Palestine illegally in an effort to "reclaim" the land. One would have thought that Judah making a comeback would have gotten a headline somewhere.

When you send heavily-armed psycho fundies into "the enemy's" land, and tell them that no matter what they do, they will have the backing and support of your military, well, this is what happens. I imagine these three are very surprised that they have been arrested... and I know i'll be very surprised if they get sentences longer than two years - remanded.

[shira]

26. No more than America murdered Trayvon Martin. Get serious. n/t

[Scootaloo]

28. Remember when you brought up corrupt cops yesterday?

And i told you that you need to get out more, read the rest of DU?



Zimmerman bears the blame for killing Trayvon Martin. These three unnamed Israelis deserve the blame for killing Mohammed Abu Khdeir.

But "blame" and "responsibility" are not the same thing, are they? a parent is not to blame for their child's bad behavior but they DO carry responsibility, correct?

Israel is responsible for Khdeir's death, and the US is responsible for Martin's. Both nations have a horrid culture of racism and elitist violence that enabled and encouraged the killers of these two boys to take the actions that they bear the blame for.

Blame, of course, carries the expectation of punishment - Zimmerman received none, and I do not think these three Israelis will receive much either.

Responsibility on the other hand, carries expectation of redress and correction. The US does not need to be punished for Trayvon, and Israel does not need to be punished for Mohammed - but both countries need to engage in some deep examination of their culture, their beliefs, and their legal systems that contributed to these deaths, and others like them, in an honest effort to root out and remove the problem.

of course, by now we know neither nation has any plans whatsoever to challenge their own enshrinement of violence as the solution to every problem, much less their ingrained racial biases and supremacist beliefs. Disappointing and saddening, but true.

[shira]

34. Well hell, every single nation on the planet is responsible for its racism - right?

Blockade them all!

Naturally, every country could benefit from deeper examination of their culture, their beliefs, & legal systems that contribute to racist crimes. So all countries should cut supplies off from each other until everything's cleared up. No more imports, exports until then.

Makes more sense than blockading enemy countries who are "justified" in going to war against innocent civilians.

[shira]

5. Suicide bombings & rockets aimed @ civilian populations is self-defense in yr view?

Before Israel responded a few days ago, 150 rockets were lobbed into Israel.

Now that's before Israel attacked back.

That's self-defense to you?

[Scootaloo]

7. I already answered that shira, before you replied

Now before you pipe up, yes, yes I am aware that some shithead or other in gaza "cast the first stone."

What I want to know is when you feel Palestinians are entitled to defend themselves.

[shira]

8. You think Hamas is entitled to self-defense? What are they defending? n/t

[Scootaloo]

10. I say "Palestinians," you only hear "Hamas"

That's telling.

But try again. When are Palestinians entitled to self-defense?

[shira]

11. Because Israel is dealing with Hamas and friends like Islamic Jihad....

....and now militant Fatah factions. Can we first agree that what they do is far from self-defense?

I don't know what you mean by "Palestinian entitlement to self-defense". You mean against the occupation in general? Military strikes?

[Scootaloo]

14. You don't know what I mean?

How odd, you seemed very certain about the concept yesterday.

Right now, Gaza is being pounded by Israeli missiles. These missiles are endangering millions - unlike Israel, gaza has neither an ai defense system, or a security network to get people to safety - they don't have anywhere to flee anyway. nearly a hundred of them have been killed, over four hundred injured thus far.

Do you believe that the people of Gaza - the people of Palestine in general, really - should just "take it"? should Palestine's government just sit back and watch Palestinians die and bleed and scream, their houses falling around their ears?

Whether or not you think Israel has good reason to pound Gaza with missiles is irrelevant to the fact that that is happening and that people are dying. How should Palestine respond to this?

Do nothing and "take it"?

[shira]

16. Should Palestine/Gaza (meaning Hamas) just take it?

That's really what you're saying, not Palestinians in general, but Hamas. Should Hamas just take it? They are the government.

Fuck Hamas. The bastards are intentionally endangering their own people. WTF does it mean for Hamas to self-defend against Israeli attacks when they wanted this war? Look up Gershon Baskin, leftwing Israeli peacenik who negotiated the Gilad Shalit swap, and you'll see he tried to end this but Hamas wanted war.

[Scootaloo]

21. Meaning Palestine

Unless you mean "Should Likud just take it" when you say Israel in your tirades.

Palestinians are under attack. They are dying. Their families are being targeted. And your advice for them is just to roll over and die quietly until israel has had its fill?

[shira]

23. You're talking about Hamas & Co. when justifying rockets, suicide bombers....

You're not just describing Palestinians in general unless you believe the average Palestinian is Hamas & friends.

[Scootaloo]

24. You're still not answering

When do Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from the people trying toi kill them?

DO they have that right?

[shira]

25. First, Israel's not trying to kill civilians. Let's stop there for a moment....

You believe Israel is intentionally looking to kill civilians, is that right?

That's why you're asking whether Palestinians have a right to defend themselves from people trying to kill them.

Correct?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

30. "The bastards are intentionally endangering their own people."

The same argument could be made about the Israeli government on several levels: occupation, colonization, apartheid, blockade.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

19. Try answering the question, shira. Don't run.

[shira]

20. Well, it seems the question is whether terrorist organizations.....

....should just "take it" from Israel.

Otherwise, who are the Palestinians in general (not affiliated with Hamas and friends) who are just "taking it" from Israel?

Name them.

Because if these Palestinians are becoming or sending out suicide bombers, or firing off rockets....then they are affiliated with Hamas and friends.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

31. "When are Palestinians entitled to self-defense?"

That was the question, shira. Don't run.

[shira]

32. Define self-defense. You mean rockets and suicide attacks? Don't run. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

40. "When are Palestinians entitled to self-defense?"

That was the question, shira. Don't run.

Nobody mentioned or condones rockets and suicide attacks.

[shira]

41. How is Hamas self-defending? Explain please. Or run. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

43. When are Palestinians entitled to self-defense?"

That was the question, shira. Stop running.

Nobody mentioned or condones, Hamas, rockets or suicide attacks.

[shira]

33. By defending themselves, I take it you agree with anti-zionists who argue….

….Hamas is justified and has a right to shoot rockets and send out suicide bombers.

Correct?

[Scootaloo]

36. You're still not answering

Do Palestinians ever have a right to defend themselves?

I can understand if you believe that, say, Islamic Jihad doesn't have such a right when Israel returns fire on a position it just launched from, or arrests its leaders or whatever. That's fair enough.

But that's not what I'm asking about. We're not talking about a couple of assholes with tripods receiving fire. We're talking about the entire territory of Gaza receiving fire. Over a hundred Palestinians are dead now. Several hundred seriously injured. Israel has vowed that there will be no cease-fire, and that there's plenty more to come.

So then. Do Palestinians ever get to defend themselves from this onslaught by a foreign military? The Palestinian government has an obligation to protect its people, same as Israel, doesn't it?

[shira]

37. Do they have a right to defend themselves via suicide bombings, rockets…..

….against innocents?

Hell no.

Do you believe they do?

[Scootaloo]

38. You already know my opinion of targeting innocents, Shira

In fact you told me that my opposition to the killing of civilians means I was denying Israel's right to self-defense. Which I still find fucking perverse.

So I'm asking you. Does Palestine have a right to defend itself?

[shira]

39. All that's left is defense against the IDF...

If the IDF targeted civilians, you'd have a case for self-defense against them.

The IDF tries their best to target Hamas only. Hamas will do what they want against the IDF. They don't defend against the IDF.

[shira]

42. You can't oppose the killing of civilians if u would give....

...Hamas a green light to continue firing thousands of rockets at Israeli innocents.

How perverse is that?

You say Hamas can fire at will at civilians, no one should stop them, and that's the humane thing to do.

Does Palestine have a right to defend itself?

Give me an example of Hamas self-defense first. Or Fatah self-defense. I'll let you know if I agree it's justified.

If you can't or won't do this, you have no argument.

[Tetris_Iguana]

44. The Palestinians have been entitled to self-defense since Israel first invaded.

I'm amazed with their tenacity and patience so far.

[shira]

35. So who has a problem w/Fatah firing rockets while Abbas condones these war crimes?

I'll start.

I do!