Poll: Most Palestinians want to eliminate Israel

[shira]

Palestinian support for a two-state solution with Israel has dropped to below the 30 percent mark, according to a new poll commissioned by the US-based think tank the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, though most respondents said they were opposed to violent resistance.

Marking a notable shift in Palestinian public opinion, 60 percent of the population surveyed in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (55% and 68%, respectively) said that the five-year goal “should be to work toward reclaiming all of historic Palestine, from the river to the sea,” according to the poll, a position meaning the elimination of Israel. Meanwhile, less than 30% (31% in the West Bank, 22% in Gaza) would like to “end the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza to achieve a two-state solution.”

more...
http://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-palestinians-backing-2-states-become-minority/#ixzz35i1OJTuw

Only 10% of Palestinians favor 1 state with equal rights for all. So much for BDS goal...
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/uploads/Documents/other/PalestinianPollingReport_June2014.pdf

[msongs]

1. no suprise since Israel is "reclaiming" everything it can get its hands on nt

[earthside]

2. 1948 was a mistake.

The implementation process of the modern state of Israel was a mistake.

It is no wonder Palestinians feel this way -- especially in light of the attitude of the Netanyahu government and the rhetoric of the religious right in Israel and in the U.S.

Frankly, I think the two-state solution is inoperative by now ... perhaps the only option is a single state with equal rights for all inhabitants. "Israelis" might just have to accept a secular democracy, i.e. the elimination of the Jewish state of Israel.

[Shaktimaan]

3. Huh?

Israel already is a secular democracy. Being a Jewish state and being a secular democracy are in no way mutually exclusive.

[shira]

4. The 2nd link in the OP shows roughly 10% of Palestinians favor 1 state....

...with equal rights for all. Practically no Israelis are for this. So are you for imposing such a solution, and how do u think it will work out since they don't want it?

[earthside]

5. It is a possible solution.

Perhaps some forward looking, peace advocates need to start exploring this avenue more seriously.

And to the other commentator, oh boy, Israel a secular democracy.
That's rich.

Arabs hold 12 seats out of the 120; only 69 in the whole history of the Knesset.
Arab population, however, is 20 percent.

[azurnoir]

6. The poll was taken last week while Israel was ransacking homes, arresting

and beating Palestinians at will, closing off entire cities, in the West Bank not to mention the killing of at least 6 Palestinians not including the 2 Palestinian kids killed on camera in May, claiming to be searching for the missing Israeli teens

from the article

The Washington Institute said the poll was conducted by “a leading Palestinian pollster” on June 15-17 through face-to-face interviews among 1,200 adult Palestinians, with a 3% statistical margin of error.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-palestinians-backing-2-states-become-minority/#ixzz35iK4mynX

quite the technique dish out abuse for more than week straight then quick take a poll and publish it - see they hate us helps justify even more abuse

[Shaktimaan]

7. And?

Arabs hold 12 seats out of the 120; only 69 in the whole history of the Knesset.
Arab population, however, is 20 percent.

In what way does that disqualify Israel from being a democracy exactly? Because what you described sure sounds like one.

In the entire 200 years of US history there have been exactly 9 black senators. Out of 1950 total so far. A percentage versus demographic value far worse than Israel's. Are you also suggesting that the US isn't a democratic state?

[azurnoir]

8. even during Apartheid South Africa was considered a democracy

anything else?

[Shaktimaan]

10. SOOO?

I love how you said "anything else?" as though you had just made a slam dunk argument or something.

[azurnoir]

11. lol you keep repeating democracy as though it means more than what it actually does n/t

[Shaktimaan]

13. And...

Your point is what exactly?

[azurnoir]

17. see my last 2 comments to you :)

however democracy does not equate to an egalitarian society

[Shaktimaan]

18. So?

Really. Do you have any semblance of a point or relevant statement?

Are you trying to say that Israel isn't egalitarian?

[shira]

21. Yeah, it's possible for the white man to impose a solution on the little brown people....

The white EU and UN know better than all the brown Palestinians and Israelis who oppose 1 secular state. The local brown people just don't understand.

[sabbat hunter]

35. That is not the fault of Israel or its government

Arabs tend to vote for Labor, not one of the Arab-Israeli parties. Labor is a very secular party.

If arabs as a block voted only for on of the Arab-Israeli parties, they would hold close to 20% of the seats.

[Agnosticsherbet]

9. We have a long history and culture where we have attempted with only partial success at equal rights

and the right side of the politial spectrum daily theatens open warfare if we don't return to a nation of liberty and freedom for white folk. It is nice rhetoric, but how exactly would you begin in implment such a system with people who have traditionaly been in conflict and have no desire to live with each other?

[azurnoir]

12. are you claiming that non Jewish citizens of Israel or Israeli Arabs are in conflict with Israel?

because that is who the comment applied to

[Shaktimaan]

41. No it's not.

The reply was in reference to a post advocating a single state solution which would merge Palestine and Israel into one state.

[azurnoir]

43. Frankly I do not believe that 2 states are likely in the foreseeable future either

the occupation will remain intact however that said the past 2 weeks proves that one state already exists the Palestinians have no autonomy anywhere in the West Bank

[Shaktimaan]

45. It's probably not.

The Palestinians have limited autonomy. Same as they have for years.

[aranthus]

16. You want to see what "single state with equal rights" looks like in the middle east?

Take a look at what's going on in Iraq.

[DonCoquixote]

36. noblke however

How would you porevent a state where via "Democtacy" aka the preachers telling idiots what to do, the Palestinians would not make jews eiuther second class citizens at best, or corpses at worst?

[BillZBubb]

14. Can you blame them?

What, exactly have the Israelis done in the past 50 years to make the Palestinians not want to get rid of Israel?

You keep your boot-heel on people's necks and they aren't likely to appreciate your company.

[aranthus]

15. Except that

Last edited Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:07 AM - Edit history (1)

the "boot heel" you talk about is there because the Palestinians started a war to destroy Israel in 1947 and then another one in 1967. Can you see how the Israelis might be afraid to remove that boot? Especially since the latest poll seems to show that Palestinian hostility to Israel's existence hasn't reduced much in almost 70 years?

So, yes, I can blame them.

[COLGATE4]

23. Somehow that point seems to get lost

in all the cheering for the blameless Palestinians.

[BillZBubb]

37. Baloney.

The Palestinians didn't start a war in 1947 and certainly not 1967.

[aranthus]

39. Where did you get that idea?

You should read some history before you start calling baloney. "Elusive Victory" by Trevor Dupuy is a good place to start. So is the Israel/Arab Reader. It's well established fact that the Palestinians started the war in 1947 and that they fomented the 1967 war.

[Shaktimaan]

44. Wow.

It's unbelievable that you don't have any idea how the conflict began. Who exactly do you think started the war in 47? We know that the Jews agreed to the UN partition plan. The war began the next day. What do you think happened?

Btw, you happen to be right about 67. The Palestinians didn't start that war. Egypt instigated it. Israel attacked first.

[Shaktimaan]

19. Seriously?

I'd think that by now the Palestinians would realize that the odds of a successful palestinian campaign to reclaim all of Israel for themselves are not the greatest.

[shira]

20. Yeah, they can be blamed. Here's why...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113464938#post7

That is the only way to understand why the conflict persists.

[Violet_Crumble]

22. Why are you linking to an Obama-hating Islamopobe like Landes as an authority on anything?

The man's a vile and disgusting bigot. Not the sort of crap I expect to see welcomed at DU...

[shira]

24. Landes' scholarship is impressive....

And he's certainly not an Obama-hating, vile and disgusting Islamophobic bigot.

Those 4 paragraphs from Landes aptly describe why the conflict persists and why most foreign policy re: I/P doesn't work and will continue to fail if continued.

[Violet_Crumble]

25. Fucking bullshit it is, and he *is* an Obama-hating Islamophobe...

His 'scholarship' may well appear to his fellow travellers, but he's out of the same cloth as Pamela Geller...

[shira]

26. Where does he claim to hate Obama? Link please...

Opposing Obama doesn't amount to hating Obama. If that were the case, every anti-zionist critic hostile to Israel here in this forum hates Obama, as they oppose his administration on Israel, wishing it were more pro-Palestinian, for BDS, etc... Maybe they shouldn't be posting here since they hate Obama so damned much.

The Islamophobe accusation is even worse. Radical extreme Islam is problematic. It's pretty fucking bad. It's first victims are Muslims and in particular secular/liberal Muslims who are all but ignored by "progressives" and leftists crying wolf about Islamophobia. Show me where you've ever advocated on behalf of genuinely secular/liberal Muslims against oppresive radical Islamists and we can continue.

[Violet_Crumble]

27. Where did I say he *claims* to hate Obama? I said he's an Obama-hater...

And why are you asking for links to examples when you replied to this one that was supplied to you? Didn't you read it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=64987

I'm sure there's a shitload of conservatives who claim they don't hate Obama either. Why do you believe them?

As for yr yet again insisting that a blatant and virulent Islamophobe isn't one, you need to read some of the articles he's written. There's one I just read that was about Muslims in Europe, and he wasn't talking about extremists. He was talking about Muslims as a whole and their religion. If someone spoke that way about Jews, you sure wouldn't be sitting there claiming it's only about the extremists. You'd be calling them what they and Landis are - disgusting bigots...

[shira]

28. So anyone not agreeing w/ Obama 100% hates Obama. Nice...

Landes isn't a conservative, BTW. He repeatedly describes himself as liberal/progressive.

And I'm still waiting to see where you've ever once advocated for secular/liberal Muslim victims of radical Islamism. You've been posting here for years. Tell you what, if that's too difficult then point me to some critics of radical Islam who you admire for standing up for liberal/secular Muslims. Surely they're not all Islamophobes when they criticize extreme Islamists. These critics can be Muslims or ex-Muslims. I'll wait.

[Violet_Crumble]

29. Uh, I don't agree with Obama 100% so how would you get that out of what I said?

He hates Obama because of that bullshit article that yr now trying to defend.

And yr attempt to ignore what I said about his Islamophobia is kinda blatant and just a bit on the clumsy side. I told you what he'd said in an article, gave you the example of someone saying the same things about Jews, and you just totally blew it off as though I hadn't said it. So go back, read what I said, and try and focus on that. If you have something to come back with by way of an argument, go for it, but I'm not following you down stupid rabbit holes to nowhere.

[shira]

30. Well, this one is going nowhere. Have a nice day. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

31. Yeah, I can see nothing's changed in the I/P group. Have a lovely day! n/t

[Jefferson23]

33. Occurs with more frequency here. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

34. Yep. For a minute I thought I was over at Discussionist n/t

[azurnoir]

40. Richard Landes: If you can’t vote for Romney, Don’t vote for Obama

http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2012/11/05/if-you-cant-vote-for-romney-dont-vote-for-obama-an-open-letter-to-americans-of-all-faiths-and-skepticisms/

[Israeli]

32. Not the Palestinians I've met shira ...

and I have probably met more than you ...even if there was a majority of Palestinians who want to eliminate Israel ....I wouldnt get my knickers in a twist about it .
Bibi, Lieberman and Naftali Bennett will keep us safe ....whilst destroying our credibility world wide .
But who cares nu ? ....Am Yisrael Chai ....

[shira]

38. Polls show only 10% support 1 secular state.

Looks like the post-zionists have their work cut out for them since 90% of Palestinians and close to 100% of Israelis oppose such a scenario.

[azurnoir]

42. The poll she posted was taken last week June 15-17

can you think of anything that may have influenced the outcome?

welcome back glad to see you

as you can see its same as it ever was

[Israeli]

46. Yup I've noticed ...

Shows her lack of knowledge with regard to Gush Shalom ... we have never advocated for a One State Solution ...

Ref: http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1368181918/

and : http://www.inminds.com/article.php?id=10155

Guess who does however ?....... Caroline Glick !!!!

Ref: http://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/books/caroline-glicks-one-state-solution-for-israel-palestine-asks-all-the-wrong-questions

Have a read here @ http://www.onestateisrael.com/
Pure Right wing azurnoir .....interesting eh ?

[azurnoir]

48. for the present one state or two state 'solution' is all academic

in reality as I believe you pointed out to long ago one state for all intents and purposes already exists as Israel exerts security control on 100% of the West Bank, regardless of what's on paper and from what I've read has ceased to co-ordinate raids in Area A with PA security albeit I suspect 'co-ordination' in this case is something more akin to forewarning

Now about Caroline Glick's one state vision once you get through the caveats she wants applied to Palestinians to be eligible for Israeli citizenship- you realize darn few Palestinians would make the cut and certainly very few males, in fact very little would change - except for the future of continued settlement would be very secure, which is indeed her purpose IMO

my well duh statement of the day

[Israeli]

49. Indeed her purpose ...

no doubt of it .

Very few are still holding on to any chance of a Two State Solution anymore azurnoir,
at best the status quo will continue ...at worst under an even more Right wing gov than this one .... ie Bennett and Lieberman together...they will annex .

[King_David]

47. Well the ones you met are no more represents the Palestenian people

Than Mondoweiss or Jewish voices for peace represent Jews , so it actually means nothing , at all.