Palestinians will not cross their 'red line'

[King_David]

The media reported that Mahmoud Abbas, head of the Palestinian Authority (PA), rejected the peace proposals submitted by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. The Palestinians leaked that Abbas sent a letter to Kerry reiterating his complete opposition to the demand to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. This was declared a “red line” that the Palestinians will not cross.

This “red line” is not just about semantics, but rather the essence of the conflict. The Palestinian position amounts to denying the Jews the right to establish their state in their homeland. It also indicates without any doubt that the Palestinians, despite the conventional wisdom, are not ready to reach a historic compromise with Zionism, the Jewish national revival movement. Therefore, a stable peace based on mutual recognition and ending all demands is not in the cards. The weak PA seems to accept partition of Mandatory Palestine into two states—perhaps in accordance with the PLO’s stages approach—but it still refrains from accepting the legitimacy of the Zionist enterprise.

 This is in stark contrast to Israel, which recognized the “legitimate rights of the Palestinians” in the September 1978 Camp David Accords, and is ready for generous territorial concessions in order to implement a partition of the Land of Israel/Palestine. The bitter truth is that the asymmetry in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has not changed for over a century. In essence, this ethno-religious conflict is not about territory—although it obviously has a territorial dimension—but about securing the recognition of the other side to national rights in a given territory.

Despite the image of untrustworthiness in keeping written agreements, Palestinians actually give great importance to the language used in the documents they are asked to sign. Yasser Arafat, generally viewed by most Israelis as an accomplished liar, refused in 2000 to sign an agreement that included a clause about an end to all demands. For him the conflict could end only with Israel’s eventual demise. Similarly, Abbas cannot bring himself to put his signature to a document that says the Jews have returned to their homeland. We know that the perception of Jews being foreign invaders of Palestine is a fundamental widespread Palestinian attitude, which is instilled in the younger generations in the PA-run schools.


http://www.heritagefl.com/story/2013/12/27/news/palestinians-will-not-cross-their-red-line/1941.html

[Scootaloo]

1. Good ol' Israel Hayom

(If you didn't notice David, Heritage Florida is reprinting this article from that tabloid - it's up there next to Efraim Inbar's name at the header)

Abbas rejected Kerry's security plan because... well, let's be frank, it's a fucking asinine plan that would turn the West Bank into "Gaza East," with its new wall at the Jordan border, Israeli military forces maintaining an occupation in the west bank, Israel claiming control of the Jordan Valley, and freedom for Israel to use drones as it sees fit in the West Bank.

"Recognition" of Israel as a Jewish state is among the points refused - and it always has been, and always for the same reasons

1) According to PM Salem Fayyad, "It's not up to Palestinians to determine the character of Israel." And that's a good point - Why does Israel demand this from the Palestinians? Does it need the PA's seal of approval on the issue or something? It lacks such a seal, but it certainly hasn't stopped Israel from calling itself "The Jewish State," so what's the point?

2) More substantively, there's concern that such a formal recognition that Israel is a specifically ethnic-religious state would hinder or harm the rights of people who do not belong to that group - and there's good reason for such a concern, especially on the part of Arabs, who even now find themselves on the wrong end of numerous discriminatory laws and certainly no shortage of extralegal and cultural biases against them.

3) Which brings us to the fact that Israel isn't a Jewish state. It's a state with a Jewish majority, yes, and that gives it a distinctly Jewish character of course. But two-fifths of the people who make up the state of Israel are not Jews whether by religion or by ethnicity. That is, Israel is a "Jewish state" only in the same way that the United States is a "white, christian state." Just as such a formal declaration by the United States would naturally carry a delegitmization of non-white, non-christian Americans, so too would such a formal recognition for the part of Israel do to non-Jews within its borders.

...Which once again going by Kerry's "plan" would seem to include everything between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Coast. Seriously, this guy... I like Kerry generally, but he's really looking like he's probably the second-to-last person who should be bumbling around the Middle east in an official capacity.

[Scootaloo]

3. Actually the "US' insistence" seems to be something of an editorial flub

Some unnamed aide wrote a wish for Palestinians to "recognize Israel as a Jewish State" into a speech delivered by Colin Powell delivered in 2001 - apparently Israeli ambassador David Ivry took credit for persuading the unnamed aide to do this, but who knows. Since the US has this fucking dumb philosophy of "stay the course" (remember that?) that little footnote has been transformed into an actual plank in the supposed peace plan.

And since that stay the course philosophy is still in place - swear to god we've been running the same foreign policy since the Truman administration - here we are now. Nobody can even define what the phrase is supposed ot mean, but there it is, because it was there last year, and the year before.

[King_David]

4. Everything is about Jews

[King_David]

6. Everyone posts in this forum because

of Jews.

On both sides .

As far as speaking for Jews, I sure do for some....You sure as hell do not

Democratic Party? I hold membership...You do not.

Gay? I am guilty, It aint against the law mister .

[King_David]

8. Your new problem with me is that I am gay ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=55137


That crosses a new line now Mister.

[King_David]

12. You seem obsessed with me being Gay now,

It is not illegal you know?

Especially if you come from Canada ,that is somewhat bizarre.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. No they're not...

You really need to stop throwing nasty and untrue accusations at other DUers.

[King_David]

14. At the time another member warned me to stay strong against your attempt to bully me,

You told me you refuse to engage me in conversation and were even maybe going to put me on ignore, just like you did with Oberliner for about 3 months.

I was enjoying the tranquility, but I guess your back to try again ?

'
'stop throwing nasty and untrue accusations '

OMG really thats coming from you? Of all people.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. Quit it with the bullying crap. No-one's bullying you...

Someone disagreeing with what you said isn't bullying you. Learn to deal with the fact that people disagree with you on things and cope with those disagreements without accusing people of homophobia, anti-Semitism and bullying. You need to stop throwing all those nasty accusations around, but I know you won't.

What I said is I rarely waste my time with you, especially as you regularly trotted out the false claim that yr bullied. I said that while I wouldn't put you on ignore, I wouldn't waste my time with you. For someone who claims to be bullied, you then started replying to my posts to others around the forum. That's not what someone who's bullied does...

What do you mean, 'I guess you're back to try again?' I'm not going anywhere just because you don't want me here.

[aranthus]

9. Of course they won't, now what?

Yes, they should recognize Israel as a Jewish state. However, it's time for Israel to face reality. The Palestinians won't ever do that. They will never accept that the Jews have a state in Israel by right. So now what? Israel is still in the same boat that it was yesterday. The Occupation is still a drain on Israel, morally, militarily, socially, and economically. The Palestinians aren't going away, and they aren't giving up. So Israel has a choice. It can either make recognition of a Jewish state a non-negotiable demand for a peace agreement, and thereby prevent any peace agreement ever. Or, Israel can negotiate the deal that it can get. What's it gonna be?

[jessie04]

11. Then tell Abbas to stick it.

The reason they refuse to recognize as a Jewish state because it means they would have to give up all rights to any Israel .

Some shitty peace partner that won't even acknowledge you exist.

I would tell Abbas to sick it.

[aranthus]

16. Then what?

What should Israel then do with the West Bank, Gaza, and the millions of Palestinians living in them? If a peace agreement isn't possible on the terms you want, then what is going to be the permanent status?