Druze teen faces jail over refusing to serve in Israeli army

[Jefferson23]

BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- The threat of arrest hangs over a Druze teenager from northern Israel after refusing to go against his conscience and serve in Israel's military, Amnesty International said Wednesday.

A few days after his birthday on Nov. 17, Omar Saad's father received a call from the Israeli army, who informed him that Omar was due to start his military induction on Dec. 4.

Last year, Omar was called for a medical examination to confirm eligibility for conscription in Israel's military, but wrote in protest to Israel's Prime Minister and Defense Minister, saying: "I refuse because I am a man of peace and I hate all forms of violence, and the military institution represents for me the peak of physical and psychological violence."

On Wednesday, Omar is due to protest his objection to joining the Israeli military by playing a rendition of "We wish you a Merry Christmas" in front of the office in which he must report to enroll, Amnesty said.

remainder: http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=654008

[King_David]

1. Refusenik ,

Just like some Jewish kids.

[Jefferson23]

2. Why don't you go serve in his place. n/t

[King_David]

12. What makes you say such a bizzare thing?

You do not read me asking : Why do you not go serve in Gaza?

[Israeli]

14. What is " bizzare " about it King_David ?

Why dont you put your ass (on the line ) ...where your mouth is ?

[King_David]

23. Oh but I intend to

It's my birthright.

As soon as I have reached my professional peak and pinnacle .

[Israeli]

27. " As soon as I have reached my professional peak and pinnacle ."....

as a pimp .

[King_David]

30. Come on ...I'm a Jewish kid in the Golah,

Chances are very good I'm a Doctor or a Lawyer...

[shaayecanaan]

40. I doubt it (nt)

[King_David]

41. Well my friend , you can doubt all you want.

It really hurts that some cyber dude living in Uruguay is sceptical......

[King_David]

25. It's not bizzarrio coming from you,

It's bizzarrio coming from that other dude .

What exactly is that American dude trying to say? That I have duel loyalties ?

Slippery slope... He should just get it off his chest ...

[Israeli]

34. " duel loyalties ? "..

with you its more triple loyalties King_David

[King_David]

36. Well the Dual Loyalty canard is classic AntiSemitism

In the Golah as indeed it was in 1935 Germany too...

[Jefferson23]

47. The surgeon prefers to rinse and repeat the word, anti semitism. n/t

[Jefferson23]

32. Your dismissive comments are offensive, a Refusenik..of all the terms..ugh.

I see from your post#23, you'll be joining up...good. What year will that happen, after
a peace settlement takes place?

[Israeli]

35. ........

[King_David]

37. Offensive ?

How so?

You find the term Refusenik offensive ?


Heres a link courtesy of Israeli : http://www.seruv.org.il/English/


Maybe you should read a little about this place of which you think you know something about .


This should be good, explain why?

If I go on Aliyah I will join up for sure, it's my birthright and will be my duty and they will want to take full advantage of my skills...

[Jefferson23]

43. You're the expert, so hurry up and join...don't wait for the peace deal..could be awhile.

You'll be offering your surgical skills, isn't that it?

Yes, your comment was offensive, he is a young man required to turn on his own people and
you brush him off as a Refusenik..ugh.

[King_David]

44. Yes he's Israeli

And he's a Refusenik .

What's offensive is you thinking it's offensive him being lumped together with the Jews. (All Israeli citizens Jews and Druze and this kid)

Are you an ISM ? A self appointed leader of the Palestinisns because they can't lead themselves ?

[Jefferson23]

46. The Palestinians can lead themselves, they only need Israel to get off their necks.

The level of your empathy for the young man, who's identity is not exclusive to being Israeli,
is of grotesque proportions.

[King_David]

52. Oh puleez, think I am scared? I will be automatic rank of Lietenant and able to order cute straight

army boys around....




Ram Boneh, born November 6, 1987, in Hadera, Israel, is a former Israeli soldier turned model.

http://www.mostbeautifulman.com/misc/RamBoneh/bio.shtml


What's not to love about that ?

[Jefferson23]

53. 13 days later, you respond.

What can I say, hurry up then..wow, automatic rank of Lieutenant. woohoo.

[King_David]

54. .

[azurnoir]

55. Heh

apparently MBM mag can't spell Israel either

Boneh was an Isreali sergeant and in a battle in July 2006, he found himself wounded by shrapnel. The battle was between Hezbollah militants and the Isreal Defense Force in the Lebanese town of Bint Jbeil - very near Isreal's border.

http://www.mostbeautifulman.com/misc/RamBoneh/bio.shtml

[King_David]

38. Are you going to serve as an "International"

In Gaza , you could apply to the ISM and attempt to lead these Palestinians like the rest of them try to.

You gonna ? You can do some good and try to explain to Hamas that Jews are not the enemy and that there's a difference between Zionists and Jews?

[Jefferson23]

42. That would be your job, not mine...go for it. n/t

[King_David]

45. Oh ok I get what your point is ,

[Jefferson23]

48. I would think you could apply your surgical skills and figure it out. n/t

[King_David]

49. Ha ha ha

What a funny dude you are.. A real knee slapper... I spat my cofee all over the computer ... You really are a jolly Polly funny dude ... You hop to it..

[Scootaloo]

3. What a monster n/t

[Jefferson23]

5. I know, I mean who would object to being required to be a participant of this?

"I refuse to take an assault rifle and point it at another human being. I abhor this violence and everything connected to violence. I detest and hate all violence," he told Amnesty International.

"I don't want to be part of the Israeli army because the Israeli government is responsible for the occupation. As an Arab Druze I consider myself part of the Palestinian people - so how can I be part of the army that occupies my people? I won't sell all my beliefs and my identity to anyone."

[King_David]

8. Nope just a regular brave citizen participating

In a democracy...

[King_David]

26. He's an Israeli citizen

[Jefferson23]

33. Exactly and the Israeli government by design no longer always reacts agressively due to the bad PR

individuals can create for them.


snip* Over the last decade, the IDF largely refrained from repeatedly putting conscientious objectors on trial. Until now the record was nine trials, which took place eight years ago, and the IDF preferred to release them after shorter prison sentences due to their unsuitability (in order to prevent a media frenzy over the trial, as took place six years ago in 2003).

Two months ago, Blanc told Haaretz that he assumes the army is trying to wear him down with the repeated confinements until he gives in and enlists, but he does not intend to do so.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-conscientious-objector-to-refuse-idf-service-for-8th-time.premium-1.512882

[Shaktimaan]

50. As is his right.

But let me ask you. Since Israel requires compulsory national service of its citizens, usually fulfilled by joining the military for Jews and Druze, does this person have any obligation to meet these requirements despite politically opposing them?

Citizenship anywhere grants individuals certain rights, but also makes certain demands in return. Equality isn't a one way street. If one can demand equal rights then shouldn't they be subject to equal expectations? This is a philosophical question, as a practical matter it isn't hard to avoid service. My two cousins are both refusing to serve on ethical grounds, it's not a big deal legally. But it is a big deal ideologically. (IOW my family's hella pissed at them for recusing themselves.)

Right now Arab citizens of Israel are exempt from service. (As are torah students but that's ridiculous, and very unpopular. Almost everyone agrees it's wrong.) So wouldn't it be a victory for equality in Israel to make EVERYONE subject to the same requirements? (In return, getting the same benefits as well?) Wouldn't it help bring together Israelis on a national level to force all of them, Arab and Jew alike, to serve within the same units, for a common good?

One of the oft touted benefits of the IDF is bringing together Israelis from all different classes. Could it work similarly with Jews and Arabs as it does with poor Russian immigrant Jews and wealthy Jews from Savion? I have no idea. It's complicated. But I imagine you would agree in principle to the idea that a democracy should aim to treat it's citizens equally?

But back to this one Druze kid. He can be an objector, sure. But should he exercise it, ethically? He benefits from the security that the army provides, no less than any Jewish Israeli. The Druze were in the same position as the Jews were in 48. (Why do you think ONLY the Druze aren't exempt?) This kid's family would likely be just as dead as his Jewish neighbors, had Israel not won that war.

So why shouldn't he be expected to make the same sacrifices as everyone else in order to maintain it? He may have the right to refuse, as do my cousins, but ethically I don't see how they can argue their case. I understand they have strongly held political beliefs, but no one enjoys going into the army... the nature of joining an army is one of sacrifice. Many have lost their lives in such service. So entering the army violates ones beliefs... That sucks, but still one should go. It's part of the sacrifice expected of that state, as is risking your life being in the army to begin with. I'm not exempt from paying taxes just because I oppose what they spend it on, am I? It's the same thing. He's violating a social contract between the state and its citizens. It's irresponsible and unethical and should be criticized.

[Israeli]

51. good post Shaktimaan....

pelsar got it right :

" the kid is making a political protest..if he didn't want to make any noise and not go to the army, its very easy. The army doesn't want anybody who doesn't want to be there.

Clearly he is willing to take whatever punishment is given, be it social, political or "physical" (jail time) to make his point public.

thats how democracies work and the kids gets credit for standing on his principles and is willing to take the punishment "

with reference to this :

" My two cousins are both refusing to serve on ethical grounds, it's not a big deal legally. But it is a big deal ideologically. (IOW my family's hella pissed at them for recusing themselves.) "

Its a big deal over here no matter where you stand politically ....I'm not surprised your family is pissed ... they (your cousins) are going to face a lot of resentment and rejection ..firstly by their peers , who would like to go and study but have to wait at least three years ...then they will finish their studies and find out that its very difficult to find employment without security clearance ....its part of the punishment .

" Right now Arab citizens of Israel are exempt from service. (As are torah students but that's ridiculous, and very unpopular. Almost everyone agrees it's wrong.) So wouldn't it be a victory for equality in Israel to make EVERYONE subject to the same requirements? (In return, getting the same benefits as well?) Wouldn't it help bring together Israelis on a national level to force all of them, Arab and Jew alike, to serve within the same units, for a common good? "

Israeli Arabs , both Muslim and Christian and lets not forget the Bedouin ....all choose to serve Shaktimaan even tho they are exempt ...so do some " torah students " .
No it would not help ... forcing anyone into doing anything is counter productive .

[Scootaloo]

11. Got the "brave citizen" part right, at least

I have trouble calling a society that forbids half the people under its rule from participation in that rule a "democracy," though. Likewise for a nation that is effectively ruled by the desires of its military establishment and where religious leaders have more impact on actual policy than even those people who do get to participate in the system.

Again, simply that the ability to cast a vote exists for some people, doesn't make the society a democracy. Think of the US Supreme court; all nine justices get a vote, so it uses a democratic system, but as the court is itself filled by political appointees on (theoretically) individual merit, as life positions, above the desires and wishes of the people, it is itself not a democracy.

But, political pedantry aside, it's good that you give him due recognition.

[Israeli]

16. Yes ....

like these :

http://www.seruv.org.il/English/

[King_David]

22. Yes. nt

[intaglio]

4. Surely all he needs to to is to become a full time Torah student

Then the dodging the draft is legal

[shaayecanaan]

6. wrong religion

maybe he could become a full time Druze mystic, but that won't help him any. You can't devote yourself to reading any old scriptures, only the best will do.

All part of being a secular state, so we're told.

[intaglio]

9. Exactly my point!

[azurnoir]

7. maybe the "conscience committee" will see their way to letting him go free

In Israel, a "conscience committee" can decide upon exemptions for conscientious objectors, but refusals are often only allowed for those who protest on religious grounds, Amnesty says.

+972 writer Haggai Matar did 2 years for the same thing

[Israeli]

15. Not any more its not ...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4461342,00.html

[intaglio]

17. That was one Rabbi, Auerbach, making a false declaration

He has stated openly that he will declare all at his Yeshiva as full time Torah students. Bona fide full time Torah students are still exempt.

[Israeli]

19. we should exempt all that dont want to serve intaglio....

the Army needs them like it needs a hole in the head .... but hey it got Yair Lapid elected

[azurnoir]

39. interesting

because while Netanyahu and his ilk insist that Israel be recognized as "the Jewish State" well at least if you're Palestinian and I've seen some commentators who will only refer to Israel as the "Jewish State" at least when they think the audience or person being addressed is comprised of mostly or is non-Jewish, he and the like minded don't seem to consider studying Judaism as part of National Service to the Jewish State, now I'm quite aware of the is a candy or is it a breath mint defining of who is a Jew or Jewish, but still it does seem a conflict

[pelsar]

13. just to remove the ignorence..

Last edited Thu Dec 5, 2013, 04:46 AM - Edit history (2)

the kid is making a political protest..if he didn't want to make any noise and not go to the army, its very easy. The army doesn't want anybody who doesn't want to be there.

Clearly he is willing to take whatever punishment is given, be it social, political or "physical" (jail time) to make his point public.

thats how democracies work and the kids gets credit for standing on his principles and is willing to take the punishment

[shira]

18. Can u please explain to the folks here how someone quietly avoids army duty in Israel? n/t

[Israeli]

20. good luck with that one pelsar .... :)

well shira .... staying safe and sound in America and voting Democrat , loud and shrill as you may be , is about as " quietly avoiding army duty in Israel " as it gets .

you thinking about moving here and looking for advice ?

easy ... just say your a coward ...works like magic .

[shira]

31. The point for all who are keeping up is to see there are alternative ways....

...to avoid actual military service.

[pelsar]

21. legal and illegal methods...

mostly the army doesn't run after anyone who doesn't serve:

there is being ill....a good doctors note can be bought for a few thousand shekels
their is the 'crazy excuse"..."not fit for the military
variations on the concensious objector, sometimes they go to jail for a few weeks and thats it
pacisfim works....
for women getting married and (then divorced soon after)
religious women don't have to serve..they just declare themselves religious
rabbis do their thing with the religious education (thats now being changed)

theres also "serving near your home" for those that have hardships and now talk of letting some work in jobs after putting in some hours of military service during the day, so its a "half service

these are just generalities...they change in time and public outcries every so often as its sensitive issue for those who serve as well as for those who don't,

The army is also an integrator where those of low education and broken homes, learn professions and to integrate into society.

[Israeli]

24. careful pelsar ...

your giving away State secrets

so shira .... now you know how to get out of serving ....will we be seeing you and King_David anytime soon ?

[shira]

28. They can do national service, right? Desk work....? n/t

[pelsar]

29. national service....

mainly the religious girls do it...i'm not up to date. Working in the hospitals, old folks homes stuff like that i guess. Its mainly "day" work, in that they're not away from home.

since those who go in to the army receive certain "rewards" from the state for their service, the nationals service is the alternative on a parallel tract.