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Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 06:47 PM Apr 2013

Teachers Boycott Israeli Academics

Irish teachers became the first in Europe to support the Palestinian call for an academic boycott of Israel on Thursday.

The Teachers Union of Ireland (TUI) branded Israel an "apartheid state" at its annual congress.

A motion - which passd unanimously - called on "all members to cease all cultural and academic collaboration with Israel, including the exchange of scientists, students and academic personalities, as well as all co-operation in research programmes."

The motion further called on the Irish Congress of Trade Unions to "step up its campaign for boycott, divestment and sanctions against the apartheid state of Israel until it lifts its illegal siege of Gaza and its illegal occupation of the West Bank."

MORE...

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/131407

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Teachers Boycott Israeli Academics (Original Post) Purveyor Apr 2013 OP
I work at a large teaching hospital in Miami King_David Apr 2013 #1
well good for Ireland they seem to understand the struggle for self determination azurnoir Apr 2013 #2
Their vote is based on a false premise.... shira Apr 2013 #7
the Israeli settlements in the West Bank are indeed illegal azurnoir Apr 2013 #8
Here's their statement on occupation and the siege... shira Apr 2013 #9
the settlement are the hallmark of the occupation azurnoir Apr 2013 #10
So you can't defend it but support lies vs. Israel nonetheless. shira Apr 2013 #11
except they are not lies as I said it needs no defense azurnoir Apr 2013 #12
The occupation and siege are not illegal, as the ITU claims. shira Apr 2013 #13
No I do not know they are lies and the settlements are a part of the occupation azurnoir Apr 2013 #14
Of course you know it's a lie to say the occupation/siege are illegal. shira Apr 2013 #15
the 'occupation ' is forcibly transferring Palestistinians out of Area C azurnoir Apr 2013 #16
Then that's what BDS should focus on, not lies. n/t shira Apr 2013 #18
I just showed you it's not a lie azurnoir Apr 2013 #19
LOL! n/t shira Apr 2013 #20
That ~60% of the west bank is what Israel will directly annex. delrem Apr 2013 #21
well for my part IMO what is in mind here would be something like azurnoir Apr 2013 #22
Yes. This is being put in place already with an apartheid road/transportation system. nt delrem Apr 2013 #23
well the ground work has been laid that's for sure n/t azurnoir Apr 2013 #26
Are you... Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #28
I'm sure he does, but calling "Apartheid " on the Jewish State is far sexier and ridiculous . King_David Apr 2013 #30
Jooo baiting. n/t shira Apr 2013 #31
It is worth remembering here that the term "Boycott" originated in Ireland. bemildred Apr 2013 #35
Try being a Catholic living in a Protestant neighbourhood ... holdencaufield Apr 2013 #3
Well I'm not surprised by this. nt King_David Apr 2013 #4
Do you know the difference between Northern Ireland (UK) and the Republic of Ireland? TexasProgresive Apr 2013 #5
That's The Republic..... paleotn Apr 2013 #27
I see this as counter-productive. I support economic boycott but not cali Apr 2013 #6
I've heard this argued many ways, it coming down to what might work. delrem Apr 2013 #24
yep and thank you n/t azurnoir Apr 2013 #25
BDS success won't change public opinion in Israel.... shira Apr 2013 #29
"out to get the Jews" R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2013 #32
Greta Berlin King_David Apr 2013 #33
shira Israeli Apr 2013 #34
I doubt that schoolteachers in Ireland ever were engaging in much collaboration with Israelis. LeftishBrit Apr 2013 #17

King_David

(14,851 posts)
1. I work at a large teaching hospital in Miami
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 07:23 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:38 PM - Edit history (1)

Just about every single physician teacher at my hospital will be at local Yom Haatzmaut festivities .

I don't imagine an academic boycott of Israel ever taking hold in any country outside the Middle East and probably not even .. EVER..

Especially not in the Medical Physician field..

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
2. well good for Ireland they seem to understand the struggle for self determination
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 07:33 PM
Apr 2013

maybe their recent history has a bit to do with that or something

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
7. Their vote is based on a false premise....
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:29 AM
Apr 2013

...that both the siege and occupation are illegal, which they are not.

And it's not my opinion. It's that of the UN, as the Palmer commission recently ruled the siege is legal and UNSCR242 permits Israel to occupy the territories until there is an agreement on secure, recognized borders.

Just more anti-Israel prejudice based on lies and deceit.

Are you proud of yourself for supporting a cause based almost entirely on lies?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
8. the Israeli settlements in the West Bank are indeed illegal
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:32 AM
Apr 2013

and that sets premise, but feel quite free to call that whatever you wish

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
9. Here's their statement on occupation and the siege...
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:35 AM
Apr 2013
The motion further calls on the Irish Congress of Trade Unions to “step up its campaign for boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) against the apartheid state of Israel until it lifts its illegal siege of Gaza and its illegal occupation of the West Bank, and agrees to abide by International law and all UN Resolutions against it”,

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/04/teachers-academic-unanimous.html

Try defending that.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
10. the settlement are the hallmark of the occupation
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:39 AM
Apr 2013

and I find your try defending that statement rather peculiar, fact is I do not have to try, it needs no 'defending' what needs defending is your apparent justification of the continuing occupation and settlement enterprise

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
11. So you can't defend it but support lies vs. Israel nonetheless.
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:43 AM
Apr 2013

That pretty much sums up everything about you on I/P.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
13. The occupation and siege are not illegal, as the ITU claims.
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:50 AM
Apr 2013

You can spin that into settlements all you want, but those are lies and you know it.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
14. No I do not know they are lies and the settlements are a part of the occupation
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:56 AM
Apr 2013

and you are once again more than welcome to defend all of that till the cows come home

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
15. Of course you know it's a lie to say the occupation/siege are illegal.
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 09:00 AM
Apr 2013

Last edited Sat Apr 6, 2013, 05:03 PM - Edit history (1)

You're not fooling anyone, not even yourself.

It's just one more lie piled onto a mountain of other lies that you support, like the BDS lie that Israel is apartheid even within the green line.

It's so bad, you're not even trying to defend it (not that you can). You'll cry denial til the cows come home, but you feel no shame whatsoever. No embarrassment. Nothing.

=======

If this were a court of law, admissible evidence (not propaganda) would be submitted that would impeach Israel's defamers. It would be open and shut - just like Karsenty's case you mentioned WRT al-Dura, for anyone objective looking at the evidence.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
16. the 'occupation ' is forcibly transferring Palestistinians out of Area C
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 03:33 PM
Apr 2013

that right there is a breech of international law

delrem

(9,688 posts)
21. That ~60% of the west bank is what Israel will directly annex.
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 06:33 PM
Apr 2013

Our screeching friend will be just fine with that, since Palestinians aren't willing to defer in a "reasonable" manner to their military overlords. As our screecher explains, the Palestinians will be left to make what they can of the several isolated bantustans remaining, their entire communication with the outside world will remain subjugated to the Israeli masters. This will be justified, in the end, by screechings about how Palestinians engage in child sacrifice and so on, showing that they have a morality less than that of wild animals.

Pam Geller redux.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
22. well for my part IMO what is in mind here would be something like
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 06:42 PM
Apr 2013

Israel 'giving up' just enough land to connect the bantustans, most of which are 5ciustered quite close together, ending up with what would amount to a Palestinian island surrounded on all sides by Israel, dependent on Israel's good will for all access in or out not to mention water, power ect. Creating in essence another Gaza but with out the coastal view, sort of a self fulfilling prophecy of something

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
35. It is worth remembering here that the term "Boycott" originated in Ireland.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 09:13 AM
Apr 2013
A boycott is an act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization, or country as an expression of protest, usually for social or political reasons. Sometimes, it can be a form of consumer activism.


Etymology

The word boycott entered the English language during the Irish "Land War" and is derived from the name of Captain Charles Boycott, the land agent of an absentee landlord, Lord Erne, who lived in Lough Mask House, near Ballinrobe in County Mayo, Ireland, who was subject to social ostracism organized by the Irish Land League in 1880. As harvests had been poor that year, Lord Erne offered his tenants a ten percent reduction in their rents. In September of that year, protesting tenants demanded a twenty five percent reduction, which Lord Erne refused. Boycott then attempted to evict eleven tenants from the land. Charles Stewart Parnell, in a speech in Ennis prior to the events in Lough Mask, proposed that when dealing with tenants who take farms where another tenant was evicted, rather than resorting to violence, everyone in the locality should shun them. While Parnell's speech did not refer to land agents or landlords, the tactic was first applied to Boycott when the alarm was raised about the evictions. Despite the short-term economic hardship to those undertaking this action, Boycott soon found himself isolated — his workers stopped work in the fields and stables, as well as in his house. Local businessmen stopped trading with him, and the local postman refused to deliver mail.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott
 

holdencaufield

(2,927 posts)
3. Try being a Catholic living in a Protestant neighbourhood ...
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 07:44 PM
Apr 2013

... (or vice versa) in Northern Ireland and then talk to me about apartheid.

Ireland should take a good look at their own troubles before wasting time singling out Jewish academics.

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
5. Do you know the difference between Northern Ireland (UK) and the Republic of Ireland?
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:30 PM
Apr 2013

The only prejudice I saw during my time in Eire was towards rude tourists and even that was in an oh so polite way.

paleotn

(17,912 posts)
27. That's The Republic.....
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 09:18 PM
Apr 2013

...not the British colonial outpost in the north. With a little research on the Ulster Plantation, you may notice the ironic parallels with Palestine. I, for one, am very proud of my ancestral home, the old sod once again.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
24. I've heard this argued many ways, it coming down to what might work.
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 08:16 PM
Apr 2013

Starting from an economic boycott, something any consumer can contribute to and so both applying an all too easily dismissible pressure internally but a not so easily dismissible large-scale involvement from outside. But economic boycotts don't work unless applied multinationally at a state level, at the level of sanctions as now in place against Iran and NK. Even at that it's a bit doubtful that they work. They sometimes just force states to become more resilient, self-reliant, and to look for other economic avenues.

In the case of putting pressure on SA to eliminate the apartheid ideology (I deliberately put it in those terms rather than anything like "the elimination of SA" because the aim is to change the orientation of a political rule from anti-equality to equality, not to "wipe a state off the map&quot , it was found that cultural boycotts, in particular an international boycott of SA sports proved quite effective.
1. SA took great pride in the achievement of its athletes, and
2. SA did not like being ostracized from international venues where those states that it wanted to associate with were participating.
It worked because it was visible to all SA people, it couldn't be hid, and it hit the people most at issue in "the moral/cultural gut".

Israel rightly takes pride in its intellectual achievements. An "intellectual boycott", per se, isn't achievable and I agree with you that any attempt at such a thing is both undesirable and counter-productive (so I disagree with that ass Galloway, refusing to debate with an Israeli. WTF???). Hell, nobody participating in DU I/P could agree with such a boycott without self-contradiction. But at some level I see cultural boycotts as being possibly useful - producing long term gain out of the short term pain.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
29. BDS success won't change public opinion in Israel....
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 08:26 AM
Apr 2013

It will only prove that the world, once again, is out to get the Jews. And it's not just Israel's right that will believe this, but also its liberals and leftists in the peace-camp as well. When you BDS the Israeli peace-camp along with Israel's rightwing instead of working alongside PeaceNow or Gush-Shalom that's proof-positive BDS isn't about peace at all, and that it's only used as a bludgeon to get at the Jews.

Stick to the settlements & you won't be accused of malicious intent. Start confusing the settlements with Israel itself and you'll unite Israelis together against BDS.

BDS leaders know this but don't care, and that's the problem. They are in no way interested in working with Israel's peace-camp. After all, Israel's peace-camp is for 2 states and BDS is for 1. So BDS will try to use their cause to bring Israel to its knees rather than work with Israel's peace-camp in order to change public opinion (which would then elect the proper Israeli leadership that would comply).

It's worked before. Netanyahu was defeated in 1999 by Ehud Barak b/c the Israeli Left was successful in getting the populace to believe peace could happen. Netanyahu had no chance. Work with the Israeli populace rather than alienate it (and their peace-camp) if you want real change. If the goal is to destroy Israel, then give up on all Israelis, work against every one of them, and try forcing Israel to its knees. IOW, the Hamas strategy...

Now look around here on I/P and see if you can find any of your fellow pro-Palestinian advocates who support PeaceNow or Gush-Shalom and you'll find.....none. What does that tell you?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
32. "out to get the Jews"
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 03:49 PM
Apr 2013

Is BDS "out to get the Jews", or are they working on Israel to change its policies?

LeftishBrit

(41,205 posts)
17. I doubt that schoolteachers in Ireland ever were engaging in much collaboration with Israelis.
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 04:32 PM
Apr 2013

Irish teachers, like those in the UK and many other countries, would seem to have more pressing problems:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/quinn-stands-over-education-job-cuts-217087.html

http://www.e-include.eu/en/articles/913-children-with-disabilities-hit-again-by-educational-cuts

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/why-teachers-are-right-to-fight-education-cuts-227401.html


I hope their union activists are not distracted by a boycott of imaginary collaborations with Israel, into neglecting these major issues.

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