Andrew Sullivan Weighs In on Israel / Gaza conflict...

[GitRDun]

Article here: http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/11/the-politics-of-dead-children.html

Money Quote:

19 Nov 2012 01:05 PM
Geo-Politics And Dead Babies

Snip...

In other words, without diplomacy toward a two-state solution, we are looking at a lifetime of constant Israeli warfare against all of its neighbors, deeper isolation in the region (with Turkey and Egypt already fast moving away) and growing international pariah status as Greater Israel becomes more fundamentalist and less democratic. And at some point, as America's energy revolution leaves us less and less exposed to Middle East oil, and as the national interest becomes more attuned to events in Asia and the Pacific, and as the occupation turns Israel into the South Africa of the 21st Century, the Jewish state will become a self-evident burden for America, spawning terror and conflict and anti-Americanism as far as the eye can see. If all Israel can count on then are America's Christianists and the current GOP, if they continue to spurn American attempts to unwind the conflict by undoing the settlements, then Israelis should be genuinely afraid for their future. I sure am.

Israel cannot win with weapons...neither can Hammas. The point is it no longer matters whose "fault" it is, there is a new generation of young Arabs & Israeli's who are learning to hate each other. There is no certainty of long term US continued support of Israel if war becomes a constant. US allies Egypt, Turkey, and others do not see things black and white pro-Israel...eventually Netanyahu's aggressive settlement policy and rigid containment strategy will lead to a disintigration of the long term security they are trying to create

[leveymg]

1. If there's any regime in the ME that needs changing, it's Netanyahu.

That is essential to US national security for the reasons so accurately stated above by Mr. Sullivan. When is the US policy in the region going to adapt to reality?

[The Magistrate]

2. Some Sound Points In that, Sir

[Mosby]

4. Andrew Sullivan thinks blacks are dumber than whites

And he clearly has issues with Jews.

Why would anyone here care what this racist conservative POS has to say about anything?

[azurnoir]

5. wise words and some very sound points thank you n/t

[Mosby]

6. the guy is a racist

http://m.gawker.com/5863453

[azurnoir]

7. ever watch through the wormhole?

Morgan Freeman narrates the show and it featured a study that showed some of the same results

[Mosby]

8. can you give me a link?

Never heard of the show, I don't watch a lot of tv.

[azurnoir]

9. well if you have cable or satellite this one is worth watching its on the science channel

http://science.discovery.com/tv-shows/through-the-wormhole/season-3-episodes.htm

one study cited found the highest average IQ was among Ashkenazim

[GitRDun]

11. Ta-Nehisi Coates does not think he is a racist

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-sullivan-tnc-raceiq-debate/

Money Quote from Coates:

On the broad question — Should researchers be free to explore the nexus of race, IQ and intelligence? — Andrew and I are in harmony. Onward, indeed. Where we differ is the following: Andrew, like most conservatives who write about race, is more concerned with a vague p.c. egalitarianism than the forces that birthed such things. (Unlike “political correctness” those forces can actually be quantified, and their impact demonstrated.)

That his contention has long been linked to one of the ugliest strains of American thought, that it continues to be linked to actual white supremacists, is not particularly troublesome to Andrew. But that others might find it troublesome is deeply distressing. I don’t charge Andrew with defending slavery or sterilization. I charge him with bumbling through the ICU, tinkering with machinery, and wondering why everyone is so uptight and stuff.

He might be too mechanical in his search for scientific truth, but that does not make him a racist. It also does not make him wrong about Israel /Gaza. The "racist" line of attack is nothing more than an attack to distract from the reality of what his thoughts are on Gaza....

[shira]

10. Sullivan is a rightwing brownshirt, jackbooted POS racist & bigot who can fuck off. n/t

[GitRDun]

12. Well that really adds to the discussion.

Thanks, calling Sullivan names has really convinced us all to come over to your side.

[shira]

13. The article is bad...

Israel's offered a state to the Palestinians twice since 2000. There was no counter-offer. Each would have ended the occupation and settlements forever and given the Palestinians a state on the equivalent of 95-100% of WB/Gaza land pre-1967.

Israel has received an Intifada and rockets in response from the Palestinians, whose leaders are hellbent to destroy Israel and at best expel its Jews. They will never accept Israel as a state. They say this constantly but it's ignored by their apologists and supporters.

The occupation and settlements ended in Gaza 7 years ago. We were told over and over that Israel had to do something big. That the Palestinians would respond in kind. Besides Gilad Shalit, there hasn't been a Jew in Israel in 7 years. The number of rockets has increased ever since the pullout.

It takes 2 to tango. Israel cannot end this conflict based on their own actions alone. But hacks like Sullivan pretend it's all on Israel, ignoring Palestinian incitement to genocide and their constant attempts at it.

If that POS Sullivan really believes all Israel has to do in the WB is what they did WRT Gaza 7 years ago, and things will get better for all concerned, he's even dumber than advertised. I think the bigot knows better but stirs the shit regardless.

[GitRDun]

14. Bull Cookies!

In 50 years plus of this crap if Israel wanted a deal they would have made one! This constant dissembling you guys do on this site is nothing but that ....dissembling!

Israel is as much a part of the problem as Hammas.

If you want argue degrees of blame that is up to you but spare me the Israel is blameless talk, it's not true and does nothing to advance peace!

[holdencaufield]

15. ...50 years plus of this crap if Israel wanted a deal they would have made one!

Can't the same claim be made of the Palestinians?

They have been given MULTIPLE chances to make a deal -- they rejected them all in favour of "armed struggle"

[GitRDun]

16. You did not read my post.

I said if you want to argue degrees of fault, be my guest, but fault does not matter as we go forward.

These two sides want to continue to fight, so HAVE AT IT!

But please do not ask the rest of us to sympathize with two groups hell bent on each others destruction.

If Hammas wanted peace they would stop firing rockets, blowing up things, killing their own as "collaborators".

If Israel wanted peace they would stop treating Gaza as a prison camp and stop negotiating over land while they are settling it.