Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumAmerican slain in Israel helping soldiers
(CNN) -
Like a handful of other American Jews in their late teens, Ezra Schwartz went to Israel after high school graduation.
Schwartz had been accepted to college in the United States but decided to spend a gap year in Israel at a yeshiva, a Jewish educational institution where students study religious texts.
The 18-year-old was volunteering in the West Bank on Thursday, delivering food to Israeli soldiers, when he was killed.
"That was just the kind of kid he was -- making sure the people around him were taken care of," his longtime camp counselor, DJ Niedober, told CNN.
At a crowded intersection in Gush Etzion, an unidentified gunman fired shots from his vehicle and rammed pedestrians at a busy intersection in, killing three people, including Schwartz.
Israel Defense Forces said that the attacker was Palestinian. Police have issued a gag order barring the media from reporting any details of the investigation and anything that could identify the suspect.
http://m.local10.com/news/american-slain-in-israel-helping-soldiers/36571224
shenmue
(38,506 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Celebrating a young American death by terrorists.
The most disgusting post I have ever seen on DU ....
Post number 3
The most disgusting post I have seen here on DU - ever.
shira
(30,109 posts)A wonderful kid, loved by so many.
Big loss for the world.
King_David
(14,851 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)On ignore. Looks like that was a great call by me. I'm going to guess they're proving Jewish lives are cheap to some.
King_David
(14,851 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)But I'm guessing that post is still standing and nobody alerted. Glad yours was left standing.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)You really should stop with the over the top rehetoric...IMHO.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Then there was that "Jews killed Jesus" post. So hard to pick just one as "most disgusting" post ever.
King_David
(14,851 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)helping an occupation force.
The IDF should not be putting American civilians in harms way like this.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)The IDF should not be endangering civilians of any racial group or nationality by putting them in harms way.
I'm not sure why you believe this is vile: seeing how civilians aren't soldiers.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)If those women weren't at planned parenthood to get abortions then they wouldn't have been shot.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Civilians, especially Americans should be careful when entering a military zone.
Planned parenthood wasn't a military zone.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)He wasn't in a military zone. He was a civilian in a settlement.
So, please clarify your position. Is he at fault because he was in the settlement to begin with, or was it because he wasn't being careful enough? Do you also think that Shaadi Arfa was killed because he was not being careful enough?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)If he lived there then he was endorsing illegal colonization.
He was part of the problem that some want to glorify, justify and then when it goes to shit blame others for.
If you want to blame anybody then blame those bigots that pretend that the West Bank is somehow part of Israel and that those upity Palestinians should just all go move and live in Jordan.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)First of all, regardless of whether or not you believe that Israel's settlement policy violates international law, that does not mean individual settlers are somehow breaking the law. Like it or not, treaties exist between Israel and the PA guaranteeing the security of the settlers.
But that's really insignificant compared to this doozy...
Let's pretend for a second that you're right about the whole "illegal colonist" thing. In what sense would that make him NOT a civilian? What would you consider him then? A soldier?
So let me get this straight... It wasn't the terrorist's fault for shooting all those civilians. In fact, blaming anyone but the civilians themselves is just an obvious attempt to pass the buck.
What about the Palestinian civilian who was killed by the Palestinian terrorist? Is that the fault of the other Israeli victims as well? Or is it his own fault for supporting the settlement by using its crosswalk?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Rape is rape; regardless if it is one or 600 thousand doing it. But thanks for the horrible attempt trying to justify it.
Let's pretend for a second that I take you seriously. Okay. I'm glad that's over.
I never wrote that. What I wrote was: "3. Perhaps he would still be alive(sp) if he wasn't helping an occupation force.
The IDF should not be putting American civilians in harms way like this."
What about the Palestinian civilian who was killed by the Israeli terrorist? Oh, wait. Only Palestinians can be terrorists.
My hat's off to you for the mock outrage and all, but it's only going to get worse, methinks.
Ultimately, Israel is responsible for this shit: no matter how hard you want to try and hasbara it away.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)I'm trying to justify rape now? Are you trying to make some kind of analogy here? Assuming it is, I'm not even sure what you think I'm trying to justify.
What law do you believe individual settlers are breaking exactly?
So he'd be alive if he wasn't bringing people snacks. I get it. So, do you consider him a civilian?
How was the IDF putting him in harm's way exactly? By accepting snacks?
What Israeli terrorist are you talking about... the American delivering snacks?
Ultimately, Israel is responsible for this shit: no matter how hard you want to try and hasbara it away.
"Hasbara it away." I like that. A Palestinian terrorist shoots a half dozen civilians... but blaming him is just another desperate attempt at propaganda to obscure the truth. Do you also think that the shooting at planned parenthood was actually planned parenthood's fault?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Except to that poster you're responding to.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)The Palestinians have been dealing with the rape of their lands, personal freedoms, and lives for two generations.
I find your reply to be practiced yet laughably callow.
What law do you believe individual settlers are breaking exactly?
Your personal denials aside, they're not settlers. They're illegal colonists, and Israel uses them in a perverted dance of state sponsored terrorism. And when one of them gets hurt (?) the victim state does it's usual cries of terrorism. Pretty sick shit for that government to do it or for others to back them up.
The IDF is in the policy of enabling/supporting illegal colonization. They should not be putting Americans, or others, in harms way so they can get their crunchies.
He'd be more alive if Israel wasn't shoving it's perverted form of right wing Zionism down the Palestinians throats through its illegal colonies. If he had been in Tel Aviv he'd be alive.
That callow reply again... who? Wha? errr...
Palestinians or others that are murdered, let's say the Dawabsheh family or *Rachel Corrie, are ignored after a short while, their murdered (aka terrorists) walk.
*Rachel corrie is a great yet tragic example of this. If she had been an America Jew, and the driver of the bull dozer who flattened her had been her had been a Palestinian, Israel would be screaming for revenge against Gaza.
Planned Parenthood is a legal service in America. If it was operating in the West Bank, being staffed by Palestinians, then I might not be surprised if somebody working there was shot by the IDF from time to time.
To quantify all of this... Nobody deserves to be murdered: Rachel Corrie, the Dawabsheh family, Ezra Schwartz or any of the other dead at the hands of the cold-blooded state or individuals acting alone.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)Actually, under both Israeli and Palestinian law the settlements are entirely legal. You seem to be falling into the exact same mindset as right wingers who advocate shooting up abortion clinics. Which is to deny their humanity and legal rights because you disagree with their actions.
An anti-abortion terrorist would say that the doctors at PP are not doctors, they are murderers and deserve to be killed to save more lives. Just as you are saying that a settler CAN'T be a civilian. In fact, they aren't even settlers. They are illegal colonists, a term you've made up yourself and now insist is the one and only reality.
You're right about one thing... when a terrorist kills an innocent Israeli civilian the Israeli government does rightly refer to the murdered victim as a victim, and denounces the terrorist as a terrorist.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Perhaps to an unwholesome mind it might appear that way.
And I obviously never wrote any such thing.
Israel has no right to take land from Palestinians. Period. Any arguments, I can only guess from corrupted zionists, is not only fallatious but diseased as well.
Israelies, Palestinians and everybody else have human rights, but those human rights don't trump the rights of others either.
The illegal colonists, the IDF and the Israeli government deserve to be held responsible for the mess thst they have created inasmuch as those loners that kill in the name of whatever wrongs done to them.
But thanks for you foolish attempts trying to play the victim.
You have hasbaraed poorly.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)What exactly is that?
I'm not sure what you mean here. By "period" I guess you mean, "under any circumstances, ever," right? Are you implying that the Israelis have no rights at all to any of Israel at all? Or do you mean specific bits of land?
Anyway, back to what I was asking earlier... you keep insisting that the Israelis living in the settlements are no "settlers" but "illegal colonists." Whatever. I'm more interested in whether you would classify them as civilians or as soldiers, or perhaps as something different, terrorists perhaps? Incidentally, "illegal colonists" as a term doesn't make a lot of sense. You might be able to argue that the settlements themselves are illegal, but the settlers aren't there illegally.
But thanks for you foolish attempts trying to play the victim.
Hey, you're the one who labelled the kid delivering snacks as a rapist. (And his violent murder as "getting hurt." I don't think I'm the one exaggerating.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Whether what he did was morally wrong or not doesn't matter, to kill him and the others was an act of terrorism.
shira
(30,109 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)While I personally don't approve of him aiding in the occupation of the West Bank, it mustn't really be connected to what happened to him. He didn't deserve this and was an innocent victim of terrorism.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)But the IDF should not be in the business of putting civilians in harms way.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)It'd not going to get any better.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Only Palestinians can be terrorists.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)The IDF is committing acts of terror against Palestinian civilians on a daily basis, and there's no rule of Law for Palestinians in the West Bank and Jerusalem. The IDF rules by fear.
I don't like the OP - it's disrespectful towards the recently deceased and tries to score cheap political points out a very tragic event.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)That pretty much sums up terrorism on the Israeli side.
So State actors actually do engage in terrorism.
It's absurd to designate terror only as mechanism of a stateless entity.
You can call a pig's ass a rose, but it is still an ass.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)His father speaks at 1:25:20 into the video.
Very heart-breaking.