Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

King_David

(14,851 posts)
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 01:39 PM Nov 2015

American slain in Israel helping soldiers

(CNN) -
Like a handful of other American Jews in their late teens, Ezra Schwartz went to Israel after high school graduation.

Schwartz had been accepted to college in the United States but decided to spend a gap year in Israel at a yeshiva, a Jewish educational institution where students study religious texts.

The 18-year-old was volunteering in the West Bank on Thursday, delivering food to Israeli soldiers, when he was killed.

"That was just the kind of kid he was -- making sure the people around him were taken care of," his longtime camp counselor, DJ Niedober, told CNN.

At a crowded intersection in Gush Etzion, an unidentified gunman fired shots from his vehicle and rammed pedestrians at a busy intersection in, killing three people, including Schwartz.

Israel Defense Forces said that the attacker was Palestinian. Police have issued a gag order barring the media from reporting any details of the investigation and anything that could identify the suspect.


http://m.local10.com/news/american-slain-in-israel-helping-soldiers/36571224




39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
American slain in Israel helping soldiers (Original Post) King_David Nov 2015 OP
... shenmue Nov 2015 #1
And yet There is a most disgusting post on this thread King_David Nov 2015 #4
It is disgusting. I was at the funeral today. Looked like 2000 people there. shira Nov 2015 #5
Obama called the family today. King_David Nov 2015 #22
I must have that poster leftynyc Nov 2015 #10
Exactly, my post of course was alerted on and jury must have gone the correct way.... King_David Nov 2015 #11
LOL - YOUR post was alerted on?!! leftynyc Nov 2015 #12
Surreal times these are. n/t shira Nov 2015 #13
Nobody celebrated any murder, dave. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #18
The "godspeed" comment was equally evil. grossproffit Nov 2015 #20
Too many indeed . King_David Nov 2015 #21
Father of slain American teen: 'Remember Ezra flying through the air with a smile' King_David Nov 2015 #2
Perhaps he would still be aluve if he wasn't R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #3
This post is vile. Please delete it. A boy was killed for the crime of being Jewish. n/t shira Nov 2015 #15
A civilian was killed, and that is vile. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #17
You sound just like those rw commenters on fox.com Shaktimaan Nov 2015 #23
You sound like a contestant from the land of lame excuses. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #24
A military zone? Shaktimaan Nov 2015 #25
A civilian in a settlement? No such thing. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #26
Interesting point of view. Shaktimaan Nov 2015 #28
"that does not mean individual settlers are somehow breaking the law." R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #31
I'm sorry, rape? What are you even talking about? Shaktimaan Nov 2015 #34
Makes no sense at all..... King_David Nov 2015 #35
" I'm sorry, rape?" Yes, one should be sorry for rape when they try to excuse it away. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #36
You seem to think that killing Israeli civilians is justified Shaktimaan Nov 2015 #37
"You seem to think that killing Israeli civilians is justified." R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #38
an unwholesome mind? Shaktimaan Dec 2015 #39
He's still a civilian victim of terrorism. Little Tich Nov 2015 #6
What? Schwartz did nothing morally wrong. 100% innocent victim. n/t shira Nov 2015 #7
It doesn't really matter what he did. Little Tich Nov 2015 #8
Nobody deserves to be murdered. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #19
Agreed. What Israel does in the West Bank is also an act of terrorism. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #27
I'm not sure you know what terrorism is. np Shaktimaan Nov 2015 #29
Oh, yes, oh sage, shak... R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #32
State actors don't do terrorism - they commit war crimes. Little Tich Nov 2015 #30
"The IDF is committing acts of terror" R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #33
RIP Mr. Schwartz leftynyc Nov 2015 #9
(WATCH) Video of funeral eulogy in Sharon, MA. 11/22/2015 shira Nov 2015 #14
Hundreds accompanying Ezra to cemetary in Sharon, MA. shira Nov 2015 #16

King_David

(14,851 posts)
4. And yet There is a most disgusting post on this thread
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 06:24 PM
Nov 2015


Celebrating a young American death by terrorists.

The most disgusting post I have ever seen on DU ....


Post number 3



The most disgusting post I have seen here on DU - ever.
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
5. It is disgusting. I was at the funeral today. Looked like 2000 people there.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 07:20 PM
Nov 2015

A wonderful kid, loved by so many.

Big loss for the world.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
10. I must have that poster
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:52 AM
Nov 2015

On ignore. Looks like that was a great call by me. I'm going to guess they're proving Jewish lives are cheap to some.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
12. LOL - YOUR post was alerted on?!!
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 08:25 AM
Nov 2015

But I'm guessing that post is still standing and nobody alerted. Glad yours was left standing.

grossproffit

(5,591 posts)
20. The "godspeed" comment was equally evil.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:57 PM
Nov 2015

Then there was that "Jews killed Jesus" post. So hard to pick just one as "most disgusting" post ever.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
3. Perhaps he would still be aluve if he wasn't
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 05:37 PM
Nov 2015

helping an occupation force.

The IDF should not be putting American civilians in harms way like this.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
17. A civilian was killed, and that is vile.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:19 PM
Nov 2015

The IDF should not be endangering civilians of any racial group or nationality by putting them in harms way.

I'm not sure why you believe this is vile: seeing how civilians aren't soldiers.



Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
23. You sound just like those rw commenters on fox.com
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 07:26 PM
Nov 2015

If those women weren't at planned parenthood to get abortions then they wouldn't have been shot.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
24. You sound like a contestant from the land of lame excuses.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 01:36 AM
Nov 2015

Civilians, especially Americans should be careful when entering a military zone.

Planned parenthood wasn't a military zone.

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
25. A military zone?
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 02:02 AM
Nov 2015

He wasn't in a military zone. He was a civilian in a settlement.

So, please clarify your position. Is he at fault because he was in the settlement to begin with, or was it because he wasn't being careful enough? Do you also think that Shaadi Arfa was killed because he was not being careful enough?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
26. A civilian in a settlement? No such thing.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 02:06 AM
Nov 2015

If he lived there then he was endorsing illegal colonization.

He was part of the problem that some want to glorify, justify and then when it goes to shit blame others for.



If you want to blame anybody then blame those bigots that pretend that the West Bank is somehow part of Israel and that those upity Palestinians should just all go move and live in Jordan.

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
28. Interesting point of view.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 02:47 AM
Nov 2015

First of all, regardless of whether or not you believe that Israel's settlement policy violates international law, that does not mean individual settlers are somehow breaking the law. Like it or not, treaties exist between Israel and the PA guaranteeing the security of the settlers.

But that's really insignificant compared to this doozy...

A civilian in a settlement? No such thing.


Let's pretend for a second that you're right about the whole "illegal colonist" thing. In what sense would that make him NOT a civilian? What would you consider him then? A soldier?

He was part of the problem that some want to glorify, justify and then when it goes to shit blame others for.


So let me get this straight... It wasn't the terrorist's fault for shooting all those civilians. In fact, blaming anyone but the civilians themselves is just an obvious attempt to pass the buck.

What about the Palestinian civilian who was killed by the Palestinian terrorist? Is that the fault of the other Israeli victims as well? Or is it his own fault for supporting the settlement by using its crosswalk?
 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
31. "that does not mean individual settlers are somehow breaking the law."
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 03:09 AM
Nov 2015

Rape is rape; regardless if it is one or 600 thousand doing it. But thanks for the horrible attempt trying to justify it.


Let's pretend for a second that I take you seriously. Okay. I'm glad that's over.


"So let me get this straight... It wasn't the terrorist's fault for shooting all those civilians."


I never wrote that. What I wrote was: "3. Perhaps he would still be alive(sp) if he wasn't helping an occupation force.

The IDF should not be putting American civilians in harms way like this."


"What about the Palestinian civilian who was killed by the Palestinian terrorist? "


What about the Palestinian civilian who was killed by the Israeli terrorist? Oh, wait. Only Palestinians can be terrorists.


My hat's off to you for the mock outrage and all, but it's only going to get worse, methinks.


Ultimately, Israel is responsible for this shit: no matter how hard you want to try and hasbara it away.

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
34. I'm sorry, rape? What are you even talking about?
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 03:54 AM
Nov 2015
Rape is rape; regardless if it is one or 600 thousand doing it. But thanks for the horrible attempt trying to justify it.


I'm trying to justify rape now? Are you trying to make some kind of analogy here? Assuming it is, I'm not even sure what you think I'm trying to justify.

What law do you believe individual settlers are breaking exactly?

I never wrote that. What I wrote was: "3. Perhaps he would still be alive(sp) if he wasn't helping an occupation force.


So he'd be alive if he wasn't bringing people snacks. I get it. So, do you consider him a civilian?

The IDF should not be putting American civilians in harms way like this."


How was the IDF putting him in harm's way exactly? By accepting snacks?

What about the Palestinian civilian who was killed by the Israeli terrorist? Oh, wait. Only Palestinians can be terrorists.


What Israeli terrorist are you talking about... the American delivering snacks?

Ultimately, Israel is responsible for this shit: no matter how hard you want to try and hasbara it away.

"Hasbara it away." I like that. A Palestinian terrorist shoots a half dozen civilians... but blaming him is just another desperate attempt at propaganda to obscure the truth. Do you also think that the shooting at planned parenthood was actually planned parenthood's fault?
 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
36. " I'm sorry, rape?" Yes, one should be sorry for rape when they try to excuse it away.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 11:18 AM
Nov 2015

The Palestinians have been dealing with the rape of their lands, personal freedoms, and lives for two generations.

I find your reply to be practiced yet laughably callow.

I'm trying to justify rape now? Are you trying to make some kind of analogy here? Assuming it is, I'm not even sure what you think I'm trying to justify.

What law do you believe individual settlers are breaking exactly?


Your personal denials aside, they're not settlers. They're illegal colonists, and Israel uses them in a perverted dance of state sponsored terrorism. And when one of them gets hurt (?) the victim state does it's usual cries of terrorism. Pretty sick shit for that government to do it or for others to back them up.

How was the IDF putting him in harm's way exactly? By accepting snacks?


The IDF is in the policy of enabling/supporting illegal colonization. They should not be putting Americans, or others, in harms way so they can get their crunchies.

So he'd be alive if he wasn't bringing people snacks. I get it. So, do you consider him a civilian?


He'd be more alive if Israel wasn't shoving it's perverted form of right wing Zionism down the Palestinians throats through its illegal colonies. If he had been in Tel Aviv he'd be alive.


What Israeli terrorist are you talking about... the American delivering snacks?


That callow reply again... who? Wha? errr...

Palestinians or others that are murdered, let's say the Dawabsheh family or *Rachel Corrie, are ignored after a short while, their murdered (aka terrorists) walk.

*Rachel corrie is a great yet tragic example of this. If she had been an America Jew, and the driver of the bull dozer who flattened her had been her had been a Palestinian, Israel would be screaming for revenge against Gaza.

A Palestinian terrorist shoots a half dozen civilians... but blaming him is just another desperate attempt at propaganda to obscure the truth. Do you also think that the shooting at planned parenthood was actually planned parenthood's fault?


Planned Parenthood is a legal service in America. If it was operating in the West Bank, being staffed by Palestinians, then I might not be surprised if somebody working there was shot by the IDF from time to time.

To quantify all of this... Nobody deserves to be murdered: Rachel Corrie, the Dawabsheh family, Ezra Schwartz or any of the other dead at the hands of the cold-blooded state or individuals acting alone.

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
37. You seem to think that killing Israeli civilians is justified
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 11:51 AM
Nov 2015
Your personal denials aside, they're not settlers. They're illegal colonists, and Israel uses them in a perverted dance of state sponsored terrorism. And when one of them gets hurt (?) the victim state does it's usual cries of terrorism. Pretty sick shit for that government to do it or for others to back them up.


Actually, under both Israeli and Palestinian law the settlements are entirely legal. You seem to be falling into the exact same mindset as right wingers who advocate shooting up abortion clinics. Which is to deny their humanity and legal rights because you disagree with their actions.

An anti-abortion terrorist would say that the doctors at PP are not doctors, they are murderers and deserve to be killed to save more lives. Just as you are saying that a settler CAN'T be a civilian. In fact, they aren't even settlers. They are illegal colonists, a term you've made up yourself and now insist is the one and only reality.

You're right about one thing... when a terrorist kills an innocent Israeli civilian the Israeli government does rightly refer to the murdered victim as a victim, and denounces the terrorist as a terrorist.


 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
38. "You seem to think that killing Israeli civilians is justified."
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 02:13 PM
Nov 2015

Perhaps to an unwholesome mind it might appear that way.

And I obviously never wrote any such thing.

Israel has no right to take land from Palestinians. Period. Any arguments, I can only guess from corrupted zionists, is not only fallatious but diseased as well.

Israelies, Palestinians and everybody else have human rights, but those human rights don't trump the rights of others either.

The illegal colonists, the IDF and the Israeli government deserve to be held responsible for the mess thst they have created inasmuch as those loners that kill in the name of whatever wrongs done to them.

But thanks for you foolish attempts trying to play the victim.


You have hasbaraed poorly.

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
39. an unwholesome mind?
Sun Dec 6, 2015, 01:18 AM
Dec 2015

What exactly is that?

Israel has no right to take land from Palestinians. Period.


I'm not sure what you mean here. By "period" I guess you mean, "under any circumstances, ever," right? Are you implying that the Israelis have no rights at all to any of Israel at all? Or do you mean specific bits of land?

Your personal denials aside, they're not settlers. They're illegal colonists, and Israel uses them in a perverted dance of state sponsored terrorism.


Anyway, back to what I was asking earlier... you keep insisting that the Israelis living in the settlements are no "settlers" but "illegal colonists." Whatever. I'm more interested in whether you would classify them as civilians or as soldiers, or perhaps as something different, terrorists perhaps? Incidentally, "illegal colonists" as a term doesn't make a lot of sense. You might be able to argue that the settlements themselves are illegal, but the settlers aren't there illegally.

But thanks for you foolish attempts trying to play the victim.

Hey, you're the one who labelled the kid delivering snacks as a rapist. (And his violent murder as "getting hurt.&quot I don't think I'm the one exaggerating.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
6. He's still a civilian victim of terrorism.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:07 PM
Nov 2015

Whether what he did was morally wrong or not doesn't matter, to kill him and the others was an act of terrorism.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
8. It doesn't really matter what he did.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:17 AM
Nov 2015

While I personally don't approve of him aiding in the occupation of the West Bank, it mustn't really be connected to what happened to him. He didn't deserve this and was an innocent victim of terrorism.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
19. Nobody deserves to be murdered.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:25 PM
Nov 2015

But the IDF should not be in the business of putting civilians in harms way.
 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
27. Agreed. What Israel does in the West Bank is also an act of terrorism.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 02:21 AM
Nov 2015

It'd not going to get any better.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
30. State actors don't do terrorism - they commit war crimes.
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 02:51 AM
Nov 2015

The IDF is committing acts of terror against Palestinian civilians on a daily basis, and there's no rule of Law for Palestinians in the West Bank and Jerusalem. The IDF rules by fear.

I don't like the OP - it's disrespectful towards the recently deceased and tries to score cheap political points out a very tragic event.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
33. "The IDF is committing acts of terror"
Sun Nov 29, 2015, 03:18 AM
Nov 2015

That pretty much sums up terrorism on the Israeli side.

So State actors actually do engage in terrorism.


It's absurd to designate terror only as mechanism of a stateless entity.


You can call a pig's ass a rose, but it is still an ass.
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Israel/Palestine»American slain in Israel ...