Poll: Most Jewish Israelis say terrorists ‘should be killed on the spot’

[Little Tich]

Source: Times of Israel

Survey finds 53% believe in extrajudicial killing of attackers; Arab Israelis more fearful than Jewish Israelis of violence

More than half of Jewish-Israelis say they believe any Palestinian “who has perpetrated a terror attack against Jews should be killed on the spot,” according to a new survey.

The Peace Index, a monthly poll conducted by the Israel Democracy Institute, released a report Thursday focusing on views about the current wave of Palestinian stabbing attacks on Jewish-Israelis and Israel’s efforts to stem the violence.

In addition to finding that 53 percent of Jewish-Israelis support extrajudicial killing of Palestinian terrorists, the survey revealed that Arab-Israelis are more fearful than Jewish-Israelis as a result of the increasing violence. The survey did not ask Arab-Israelis about extrajudicial killing.

According to the poll, 57 percent of Jewish-Israelis fear they or someone close to them will be harmed, compared to 78 percent of Arab-Israelis. In addition, more Arab-Israelis (53 percent compared to 36 percent of Jewish-Israelis) say they have changed their daily habits in response to the security situation.

Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-most-jewish-israelis-say-terrorists-should-be-killed-on-the-spot/

[geek tragedy]

1. Welcome to the new normal. nt

[oberliner]

2. Americans approve of drone strikes on terrorists, poll finds

Nearly three-quarters of Americans say it’s acceptable for the U.S. to use an unmanned aerial drone to kill an American citizen abroad if that person has joined a terror organization, according to a new Associated Press-GfK poll.

A majority, 6 in 10, supports the use of drones to target terrorists in general. Only 13 percent oppose the use of drones, the poll said, and another 24 percent don’t feel strongly either way.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/americans-approve-drone-strikes-terrorists-poll-finds/

[Little Tich]

3. That's not a very good comparison.

The idea of drone-strikes on terrorists is that they pose a danger of some kind. Choosing to kill terrorists on the spot instead of taking them into custody is a different issue.

[oberliner]

6. "The idea of drone-strikes on terrorists is that they pose a danger of some kind"

A person living thousands of miles away poses more of a danger to Americans than a person inside Israel who just committed a terrorist attack poses to Israelis?

[geek tragedy]

8. There isn't the option to take them into custody when they're in the tribal areas of Yemen

Israelis are rejecting the idea that suspected terrorists should be taken into custody even where there's the means to do so.

[King_David]

10. Agreed , these common murderers should be denied their "martyrdom "

[oberliner]

11. There's the option to not kill them with drones

Especially when drone attacks have been known to kill mostly innocent civilians.

[geek tragedy]

13. yes, there is the option of letting them launch mass murder attacks

without doing anything to prevent it.

[oberliner]

14. Yes, and shooting Palestinians terrorists would have the same effect

It would prevent them from launching mass murder attacks in the future. If they are just arrested, they could be released in a prisoner exchange or they could direct terror attacks from prison. If they are dead, that would be decidedly more difficult.

Thus, a majority of Americans and Israelis support killing terrorists (or in the case of the US, potential terrorists who haven't actually done anything yet).

[geek tragedy]

15. the equivalence is so obviously false I do not believe that you believe what you are writing

What you are doing is saying that killing the enemy in the battlefield during hostilities is exactly the same as killing enemies who have surrendered.

This is not an intellectually honest claim to make.

[oberliner]

20. Drone strikes are not limited to "killing the enemy in the battlefield during hostilities"

Anwar al-Awlaki was in a car, having just finished eating his breakfast. He had not killed anyone and was not on any battlefield.

Drone strikes (which most Americans support) can be (and have been) directed at American civilians living abroad who are accused of joining a terrorist group (and are not on any "battlefield" at the time they are killed by drone).

We are talking about "terrorism suspects" being assassinated by the US without trial - and this is supported by a majority of Americans.

[geek tragedy]

21. You're ignoring the inability to take the terrorist into custody.

That's the crucial differentiator.

[FBaggins]

24. Criminals are "taken into custody"

Enemies in warfare are shot.

[geek tragedy]

27. Okay, so Palestinians should just shoot every Israeli settler who demonstrates aggression?

After all, if this is war, the armed settlers are enemies and should not receive any judicial process.

Or is it only Arabs that you want shot?

No need to answer--rhetorical question.

Say hi to Bibi for us.

[geek tragedy]

36. Jury results:

Turns out advocating apartheid is not cool here. You should have known that.

YOUR COMMENTS

Explicit racism towards Palestinians and justifies depriving them of basic human rights because they "obviously lack the ability to govern themselves."

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Nov 6, 2015, 12:48 PM, and voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It was OK until the last sentence -- gratuitous personal attack. The rest is just spirited debate.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: There are much better ways of expressing yourself, without being rude to an entire nation of people and a fellow DUer.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Hide it. Sick of disruptors here defending Israeli apartheid and using the racist tactics of Netanyahu's racist right wing Israeli government to silence the Left.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter did you even BOTHER reading the snarky shit this poster is simply responding too? Did you alert that?

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Bigotry and acting like a jerk.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Clear cut bigotry towards Palestine.

[oberliner]

41. U.S. Use of Drones, Under New Scrutiny, Has Been Widely Opposed Abroad

Clearly, the rest of world believes there are better options.

[geek tragedy]

42. what kind of US miitary action would be greeted with international approval?

not all drone strikes are equal--sometimes they're acting on specific intelligence, other times they're just shooting at what moves

what they're doing in Pakistan is different than what they're doing in Yemen.

[oberliner]

43. Widespread Support for U.S. Actions against ISIS

[geek tragedy]

44. wow, people really hate ISIS.

Latin American countries still don't like it when we bomb anyone.

Russians have some kind of aversion to bombing ISIS.

[oberliner]

46. Indeed

I do believe, however, getting back to the OP - that Israel and US are pretty similar with regard to the comfort level with killing terrorists without benefit of a trial.

I understand the differences you highlight when we are talking about drone attacks abroad, but it is important to note that Israeli citizens face nationally motivated direct terror attacks within their country to a degree that US citizens generally do not so it's hard to find a direct comparison.

I believe that if something like the "stabbing Intifada" was going on in the US, that about 50-60 percent of Americans would support killing those terrorists on the spot in the same way that they are good with drone attacks (that usually end up killing civilians rather than the desired targets).

Personally, I am among the 40-50 percent of Americans who would not (and who do not support drone attacks and who do not support the idea of terrorists in Israel being killed on the spot either).

Though I can empathize with those who do.

[geek tragedy]

47. note that per the same survey, Arabs are more afraid but less likely to favor

excessive/premature punishment against those who commit crimes against them

According to the poll, 57 percent of Jewish-Israelis fear they or someone close to them will be harmed, compared to 78 percent of Arab-Israelis. In addition, more Arab-Israelis (53 percent compared to 36 percent of Jewish-Israelis) say they have changed their daily habits in response to the security situation.

The survey also found dramatic Arab-Jewish differences on which terrorists to punish — and how.

Eighty percent of Jewish-Israelis said Palestinian homes should be razed if the homeowner or a family member carries out an attack “for nationalist reasons,” while 53 percent see this as an appropriate punishment for a Jewish person who carries out a nationalist-motivated terror attack. (Seventy-seven percent of Arab-Israelis oppose razing Palestinian homes, and 67 percent oppose razing Jewish ones.)

These would be the same people some DU Israel boosters say come from an irredeemable culture of violence and hatred, and who are incapable of governing themselves, and thus must be, and deserve to be, subjected to an apartheid state.

Also note that the fears of Arab-Israelis have gotten virtually zero press. Because that doesn't fit the purpose of the agitprop machine.

[shira]

31. You have no evidence the police or IDF have killed terrorists once they surrendered.

They're all still in the act, thus legitimate targets.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

37. Wow. You were there for every summary execution of those terrerists...

You took the words right out of Netanyahu's mouth.

[shira]

55. There haven't been any summary executions of these terrorists.....

But you did happen to take the words out of Mahmoud Abbas' mouth when he lied about the IDF executing a 13 year old:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4711538,00.html

?w=477

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

56. More word salad from you? No thanks.

[shira]

57. Confused? LoL. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

59. No, I'll leave that sensation to you.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

58. "There haven't been any summary executions of these terrorists..."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/eritrean-mistakenly-shot-israel-attack-dies-151019064200199.html

Israel mob lynches Eritrean after bus station attack

An Eritrean man has died after he was shot and beaten by a mob after he was mistaken for an attacker during a raid in southern Israel, Israeli police say.

The attack on Sunday night at a bus station in the city of Beersheba saw a Palestinian man armed with a rifle and a knife kill an Israeli soldier and wound about 10 other people.

The Palestinian attacker was killed, while a security guard shot the Eritrean bystander, identified by Israeli media as 29-year-old Haftom Zarhum, thinking he was an accomplice of the assailant.

A video circulating online (WARNING - graphic footage) shows that a mob also beat Zarhum, who later died in hospital.

Seriously, shira, you are the worst when it comes to disinformation.

You can't sell what you have. You can't even give it away. Perhaps you need lessons in how to do that.

[shira]

60. He wasn't a terrorist. Why are you pretending he was?

Perps have been arrested too.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

61. It was a summary execution. I know that you don't apparently, IMHO, understand what that means...

but they killed them that terrerist purdy guud...until they realized that he wasn't a terrerist, but by that time the excuses began to fly.

I guess no harm done. Right? He was Eritrean.


And the hasbara two-step begins anew.

[shira]

62. You jumped in on the title of #31....

You have no evidence the police or IDF have killed terrorists once they surrendered.

You didn't show anything to the contrary.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

63. LOL!

Whatever you say...

[Little Tich]

64. So it would be safe to assume you support Israel's actions in the Bus 300 Affair?

Bus 300 affair

Source: Wikipedia

The Bus 300 affair (Hebrew: פרשת קו 300 Translit.: Parashat Kav 300 Translated: Line 300 affair), also known as Kav 300 affair, was a 1984 incident in which Shin Bet members executed two Palestinian bus hijackers, immediately after the hostage crisis incident ended and they were captured.

(snip)

Execution of two captured hijackers

The other two hijackers were captured alive, bound and taken to a nearby field, where they were beaten by people who had gathered around them. Shin Bet chief Avraham Shalom, and the Shin Bet chief of operations Ehud Yatom, approached the bound terrorists. Before he left the site, Shalom ordered Yatom to execute the two terrorists.

As a result, Yatom and several members of the Shin Bet took the militants into a vehicle, and drove them to an isolated place, where the two were executed.

The Israeli military censor blacked out coverage of the hijacking originally. As a result, initial reports published in Israel and worldwide claimed that all hijackers were killed during the takeover. Nevertheless, three days later the Israeli daily newspaper Hadashot quoted a report from The New York Times, thus bypassing the Israeli Military Censor, which stated that two of the hijackers were captured alive. A few days later Hadashot published on its front page a photograph taken by Alex Levac, in which one of the hijackers was being held alive and fully conscious while taken off the bus. The publication of the photograph caused a public uproar and as a result many in the Israeli public demanded that the circumstances surrounding the deaths of hijackers would be investigated.

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_300_affair


Source: http://halemo.com/info/kav300/

Note: The whole thing happened in April 1984, but I don't think Israel has different moral standards today...

[Ed Suspicious]

28. We must do something even if something thoroughly fucking sucks?

[geek tragedy]

29. Dead AQ terrorists is a lot more desireable of an outcome

than dead American civilians.

Obviously, when drone strikes kill innocent civilians, that's awful.

But, people like al Awlaki winding up dead is a good thing. Being an AQ terrorist should be dangerous.

[FBaggins]

23. You're moving the goalposts

Israelis are rejecting the idea that suspected terrorists should be taken into custody

Nope. The question clearly asked how to handle someone "who has perpetrated a terror attack".

The question (likely intentionally) dodges the issue of burden of proof.

Frankly, I'd answer the question the same way. If someone runs into a café in Israel and starts stabbing people... I won't shed tears for the lost judicial process. The perpetrator thinks of the attack as part of a war... it's appropriate to respond in kind.

[geek tragedy]

26. Your trust in seething Israeli mobs to properly adjudicate guilt exceeds mine

Presumably you think settlers who attack Palestinian villagers should be shot on sight too?

Lemme guess. . . . no.

But, thanks for providing the rightwing/Israeli viewpoint on these matters, candor is a gift.

[FBaggins]

33. Did you read what you responded to?

They weren't asked whether the mob should determine guilt. Guilt is presupposed by the question.

Presumably you think settlers who attack Palestinian villagers should be shot on sight too?

If it occurs in Jordan or Syria? Sure!

But attacks by citizens of an occupying power (or within their own country) are usually criminal matters, not warfare. Nor do I accept the false equivalency that there is some balance between the two or that "both sides do it".

[geek tragedy]

35. Oh, I see, first the execution then the trial. Gotcha.

And your viewpoint is that Jews attacking Palestinians is a mere criminal matter, whereas Palestinians attacking Jews is war and justifies throwing out due process concerns. Good to see the apartheid ideology spelled out with such candor.

Nor do I accept the false equivalency that there is some balance between the two or that "both sides do it".

I suspect the Dawabsheh family would disagree with you--that is the ones who weren't burned to death by Jewish terrorists.

As would as the other victims of Price Tag terrorism--the terrorism you refuse to recognize.

But, don't you fret, those Jewish terrorists won't be shot. They won't even be prosecuted. The Israeli 'justice' system shares your views on which lives are worth protecting and which aren't.

Only point of clarification--are you more of a Yisrael Beiteinu guy or Bahayit Yehudi guy?

[Crunchy Frog]

4. Does this go for Jewish terrorists too?

Just kidding. Of course not.

[azurnoir]

7. short answer no long answer nope

[geek tragedy]

9. they get counseling as they invariably 'suffer from mental health issues' nt

[Jefferson23]

12. lol +1

[6chars]

5. The terrorists are achieving their goal of terror

Israelis are terrorized. This is what the terrorists want. They also want to be killed.

[geek tragedy]

16. NIIF. nt

[oberliner]

17. What does that stand for?

That acronym is one I haven't seen before.

[geek tragedy]

18. Nothing Is Israel's Fault nt

[oberliner]

19. Gotcha

Too many internet acronyms for me to keep track of.

The only I/P specific one that I know is "PEP".

[geek tragedy]

22. not too many of those around here.

most of the ones who are carrying water for Israel also opposed the Iran nuclear deal.

Which per se disqualifies them from being considered a progressive. Just like supporting the Iraq war did and does.

[shira]

30. There's nothing progressive about being more sympathetic to terrorist murderers....

.....than to their victims.

It's hard finding anyone on Team Palestine showing any empathy or sympathy with Israeli innocents. For that matter, I haven't seen anyone on Team Palestine showing any sympathy for child militants of Hamas. Presumably because Israel cannot be blamed for it; therefore, those kids' human rights don't matter.

Not.Very.Progressive.

Also, I doubt most pro-Israel posters here opposed the Iran Nuke deal.

Did you just make that one up?

[oberliner]

38. Sympathy for Hamas disqualifies people from bring considered a progressive as well

The I/P issue tends to lead to some strange combinations of political views.

[geek tragedy]

40. I would agree.

nationalism is pretty nasty stuff

[King_David]

45. PEP or Progressive except for Palestine,

We most certainly do have at least one here...Well maybe the poster is not progressive but just antZionist but gives a pass to the extremist relentless bigoted Homophobia in Palestinian territories and maybe even supports it.
(and I am certainly not talking about you here)

[geek tragedy]

48. How about people who say the Palestinians culturally are incapable of governing themselves

and this justifies Israel treating them the way pharaoh treated the Israelites?

[King_David]

49. Who would say that?

[geek tragedy]

50. there's a hidden post in this thread. nt

[King_David]

51. Generalizations are dangerous,

Against Israelis as well as Palestinians.


(I tried explaining this to you before.)

[geek tragedy]

52. do you have an opinion as to whether saying Palestinians' culturally are incapable of

governing themselves, in order to explicitly advocate legal apartheid, is a rightwing position?

[King_David]

53. Obviously I have an opinion and just as obvious I do not agree with that statement....

[geek tragedy]

54. you don't agree with the statement justifying apartheid, or the statement characterizing such an

opinion as rightwing?

[6chars]

25. EIIF?

One way to read it is that Muslim Palestinian terrorists stabbing an 80 year old Jewish Israeli woman in Tel Aviv is Israel's fault.

[shira]

32. Better to kill them on the spot in the act than let them kill others. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

39. "Better to kill them on the spot in the act than let them kill others."

Perhaps Israel can find a way to kill them before they commit the act?



Oh, wait, they have.

[King_David]

65. USA does it too...

Just like the USA did to Jihadi John today ...