‘The New York Times’ Goes Truther on the Temple Mount

[shira]

Was the White House ever in Washington, D.C.? Can we ever really know for sure? Not unless we dig under the existing structure and find indisputable archaeological evidence of the original structure, which British general Robert Ross is said—by some sources—to have torched in August, 1814.

If you find everything about the previous paragraph patently ridiculous, you are clearly not a reporter or an editor for The New York Times. This morning, the paper of record published a piece about Jerusalem’s Temple Mount, questioning whether or not it was the site of, you know, the Jewish Temple. “Historical Certainty,” the article’s headline reads, “Proves Elusive at Jerusalem’s Holiest Place.” Capping the piece is a quote from Jane Cahill, who the paper notes is not only an archaeologist but also a practicing lawyer and therefore, presumably, an expert on incontrovertible evidence. Did the ancient Jewish temple stand where the Dome of the Rock now stands? “The answer might be ‘yes,’ if the standard of proof is merely a preponderance of the evidence,” Cahill is quoted as saying, “but ‘no’ if the standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt.”

It’s hard to begin to dissect the Times’ potent blend of ignorance and malice. There’s reporter Rick Gladstone’s repulsive bad faith in continually moving back and forth in his text between the narrow question he seems to have asked Cahill and other scholars: did the Temples stand precisely on the exact spot on the Temple Mount where Aksa was built, or might they have stood, say 50 feet over? This, in addition to the idea, which Gladstone weaves in and out of the piece, that there is even the slightest credibility to the idea that “Jewish Temples” were, you know, the products of some kind of religious fever-dream that Zionists then appropriated for their own aggressive purposes.

more...
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/194092/the-new-york-times-goes-truther-on-the-temple-mount

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Yes people who live by revealed knowledge

do tend to get upset when somebody points out that actual evidence for their beliefs is mostly nonexistent.

[shira]

2. This one has nothing to do with religious belief. It's historical fact.

You don't see the difference?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

3. These guys are jonesing to tear down Al Asqa Mosque and build a shiny new temple for all the

Yehuda Glick / Barauch Goldstein assholes.

Just read their coke jaw rants about shared praying for god's sake.


There is no temple. It's a fucking mosque. Why oh why can't the Israelis leave anything alone?

West bank: fucked.

Gaza: fucked.

The Bedouin: relocated and fucked.

Al Aqua Mosque: soon to be fucked and bulldozed if the Yehuda Glick / Barauch Goldstein assholes get their way.

[oberliner]

4. And some extremist Palestinians want to replace Israel with an Islamic state

And even more would like to erase every trace of Jewish history from Jerusalem.

How lovely it would be if Jews and Muslims were cool with letting each other walk respectfully around in or near their "holy places" without threatening a holy war over it.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

5. And they are extremists, but Israel has

Yehuda Glick's, and the 500,000 plus illegal Israeli colonists, back in all this mess.


So it's a little disingenuous for one to say its a level playing field, and can't we all get along, as their buddies are raping and pillaging what's left of Palestine.


How lovely it would be if some weren't blind to Israel's endgame.

[shira]

10. Cite your proof that 5 gazillion Jews want to take the Mount....

Or punt.

Meanwhile, here's the latest from your new boogey-man Yehuda Glick:

Yehudah Glick Willing to Temporarily “Suspend Jewish Access to the Temple Mount” for Peace
Read more at https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/50799/yehudah-glick-willing-to-temporarily-suspend-jewish-access-to-the-temple-mount-for-peace-jerusalem/#kQdchiM71B4qlyA4.99

Glick stated, “I am willing to suspend Jewish access to the Temple Mount for two months in order to find a working solution to the unbearable Muslim harassment and violence constantly taking place.”

You're making all these hysterical claims about 300 bazillion Jewish extremists wanting to screw and steal from the Palestinians, but you can't provide even one shred of proof for it.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

11. I never wrote that 5 gazillion Jews want to take the Mount.

I never wrote that or "300 bazillion Jewish extremists."

You did.

How quaint. Still up to your old ways I see.

[shira]

12. Who are all these bad Jews wanting to take the "al-Aqsa Mount"?

Yehuda Glick isn't among them.

Got any other boogey-men to sell to us?

[King_David]

17. Who is this Yehudah Glick dude that this poster is absolutely obsessed about

And nobody else ever mentions him?


LOL

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

29. Seeing how you can't even be truthful with what I have written, in just the last reply to you,

why should anybody believe that your query is truthful now?

You...
Who are all these bad Jews wanting to take the "al-Aqsa Mount"? Yehuda Glick isn't among them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehuda_Glick

Glick is chairman of the Temple Mount Heritage Foundation, and previously worked as the executive director of The Temple Institute, a group that supports the building of the Third Temple on the Temple Mount.[13][14][15][16] He lives in *Otniel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otniel

*Otniel (Hebrew: עָתְנִיאֵל is a Jewish Orthodox Israeli settlement in the southern Judaean Mountains, south of Hebron in the West Bank. It is under the jurisdiction of the Har Hebron Regional Council. Approximately 130 families live in Otniel. The international community considers Israeli settlements in the West Bank illegal under international law, but the Israeli government disputes this.

So you can't even be honest about what Yehuda Glick's intentions are for the Al Asqa Mount.

Got any other boogey-men to sell to us?

No, I'll just use your dubious words against you, and bookmark this thread.



For somebody that has done what you have done for so long, one would expect you to have developed some skills at it, but the opposite is true.

[bumprstickr]

27. Let's talk about Yehuda Glick

namely:

Born and raised in Brooklyn, N.Y., Glick moved with his family to Israel when he was 8 years old. Through his organization, HaLiba, which translates into English as “Heart,” Glick leads the growing Temple Mount movement, advocating for Jews to be allowed to pray at what is regarded as the holiest place in Judaism. The Temple Mount is where God is believed to have gathered the dust of the earth to create Adam, where Abraham nearly sacrificed his son Isaac, and where God’s presence resided until the First Temple was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 B.C.E., and the Second Temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. It is also the site of one of Islam’s most sacred mosques, Al-Aqsa, which is regarded by Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary where Muhammad ascended to heaven around the year 621.

While Israel took control of the area when it conquered Jerusalem from the Jordanians in 1967, Jordan retains authority over the Temple Mount, in conjunction with the Islamic Waqf, which has controlled access to the area since the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem in 1187. While security is maintained by Israel, only Muslims are permitted to pray there, due to the risk of inflaming tensions at the highly combustible site. Israel’s rabbinate also forbids Jews from praying there, in accordance with the rabbinical stance dating back to the 19th century that states that until the temple is rebuilt, Jews are not pure enough to visit this most holy of holy places.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/187546/yehuda-glick

The part "while Jerusalem too control...when it conquered Jerusalem". Can one country conquer another and keep what is conquered?

[King_David]

28. Yes and ?

Glick is important or highlighted because ?

[bumprstickr]

32. did you read my question?

[azurnoir]

14. weren't you saying how the mosque was built on top of where a basilica stood?

oberliner (32,226 posts)
23. Huh?

The mosque is built on the ruins of Royal Stoa basilica.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=114831

[oberliner]

23. It was

I thought I provided you with a pdf that you found interesting detailing what probably stood there before the Romans destroyed it.

[azurnoir]

25. Probably is the key word here

[oberliner]

26. And probably Mohammed didn't ascend to heaven from the Dome of the Rock, right?

Pretty much every supernatural thing that Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe happened there didn't actually happen - would you agree?

[King_David]

16. That poster has become very worried about The Temple,

So much so that it has become a religious scholar , critiquing Jewish faith and boosting Muslim faith .

It's really a religious argument to him.

[shira]

6. You're trying to change the subject. It's about denying the Temple's existence....

The Palestinian Mufti al-Husayni (Arafat's Uncle, Hitler's friend and ally) used to incite attacks against Jews before 1948 by claiming the Jews wanted to tear down al-Aqsa and put a Temple up.

Before there was an Israel.

Same hysterical incitement is happening today.

Wake up.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

7. Victim, victim, victim...Hitler, Hitler

That's all I read from your posts, but Israel is the victimizer now.

Just stop it. Don't wake up. Grow up.

[shira]

8. Just citing facts about incitement from the 1920's and 30's.

Sorry about facts offending you, but the same thing is happening today. There's ZERO proof of this hysteria about Jews wanting to take over the Mount. NOTHING. Stop fanning the flames.

And stop derailing this thread about Temple denial by NYT Truthers.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

9. You're about 80-90 years behind the times.

Israel is the victimizer now; from the West Bank to the Gaza Strip.

That goes without saying.


And you're certainly one not to kvetch about thread derailing.

BTW: had you noticed that I was writing to Warren Stupidity and not you to begin with, but please feel free to play the hurt party.

[shira]

13. It's really important to you that Palestinians are always the victim...

Can't Jews be victims too?

I agree Israel is not a victim. Not after events from 75 years ago.

But how about Jews?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

30. "Can't Jews be victims too?"

Victimhood is not built around feeling slighted when the Muslims won't yield their mosque grounds to marauding religious fundamentalist Jews.

This is a conversation I would expect to have with a right winger, shira.


Why are you attempting it with me now?

[6chars]

15. Add this to other memes to delegitimize Jews and Israel

Khazars, etc.

We are starting to hear it on du some.

[King_David]

18. There's a poster here that talks about Yehudah Glick

And tries to pair him with The devil and goes on and on about some dude nobody ever heard about and nobody ever talks about except for him.

That is between bursts of "apartheid " "BDS" and something he invented called an "El Aqsa Mount" that is also obsessed about.

None of it makes sense.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

31. Sure thing, boss.

Whatever you say.

[King_David]

19. NY Times amends article questioning Jewish temples’ existence on Temple Mount

Piece corrected to ask where exactly on the site the temples were located, not whether they were there at all, as originally suggested

http://www.timesofisrael.com/ny-times-amends-article-questioning-jewish-temples-existence-on-temple-mount/

[King_David]

20. NY Times Backs Away From Doubting Jewish Temples' Existence

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/tom-blumer/2015/10/10/ny-times-backs-away-doubting-jewish-temples-existence

[oberliner]

21. They should run a piece doubting that Mohammed ascended into heaven

They could make it part of a wider piece critical of other religious stories like Noah's Ark and Jesus walking on water.

Maybe include a respectful drawing of what Noah, Jesus, and Mohammed might have looked like to go along with it.

[oberliner]

22. Mondoweiss response: "Hectored by Zionist wannabe archaeologists...."

From Philip Weiss himself:

This is wild. The New York Times ran an article two days ago raising an archaeological question: Were the first and second Jewish temples really on the Jerusalem plateau where the Muslim holy sites are today in the occupied Old City?

Zionist writers soon jumped on the question.

(And there you have it!)

[shira]

24. Mondoweiss Truthers. No surprise there. n/t