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R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 08:58 PM Sep 2015

Israel is pulling the West Bank out from under Palestinian feet

http://972mag.com/israel-pulling-the-west-bank-from-under-palestinian-feet/111611/

Israel has issued over 14,000 demolition orders against Palestinian structures in the West Bank’s Area C since 1988, according to a new report released by OCHA-oPt. Nearly 3,000 demolitions have been carried out in that time, leaving more than 11,000 orders outstanding that affect over 17,000 structures. OCHA-oPt derived its report from figures released earlier this year by the Civil Administration, Israel’s governing body in the West Bank.

Demolitions in the West Bank have been under scrutiny recently, following a period of intensive activity in which Israel demolished 143 Palestinian structures in the space of a month. Israel justifies demolitions by arguing that the structures in question have been built without a permit. However, it is almost impossible for Palestinians in Area C to obtain building permits: between 2010 and 2014 only 1.5 percent of permit requests were granted to Palestinians, the report states.

In addition, 77 percent of the demolition orders have been issued against structures located on private Palestinian land; permits for building in these areas were likely refused because of the lack of a planning scheme or “outline plan.” Currently, only one percent of land in Area C has been designated for Palestinian development.
---
The figures presented in OCHA-oPt’s report indicate the scale of the threat of demolitions for Area C’s Palestinian residents. Although only a minority of demolition orders have been executed, they do not expire, “leav[ing] affected households in a state of chronic uncertainty and threat.” This exerts tremendous psychological pressure on affected individuals, who are forced to live with the sword of Damocles dangling over their necks. When orders are carried out they result in homelessness, loss of livelihood and deepening poverty. Moreover, the Israeli army has at times used demolitions either as bargaining chips to pressure Palestinians into stopping anti-occupation demonstrations, or as a means of collective punishment.
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Israel is pulling the West Bank out from under Palestinian feet (Original Post) R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 OP
Israel effectively controls and governs the West Bank. That is obvious. guillaumeb Sep 2015 #1
" response to that link/map. "............. Israeli Sep 2015 #4
An excellent link. guillaumeb Sep 2015 #37
You mean Israel controls area C, not areas A & B. As per Oslo... shira Sep 2015 #6
Any easily guided person that believes that Israel only controls part of the West Bank is R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #18
Israel doesn't have any boots on the ground in Gaza or areas A or B.... shira Sep 2015 #24
Israeli forces provoke violent clashes during invasion of Jenin refugee camp R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #45
Even if true (and it's not) that's not effective control. Try again. shira Sep 2015 #47
No. You lose. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #48
So 80 percent of demolition orders over the last 30 years have not actually been carried out oberliner Sep 2015 #2
It's certainly not for lack of desire to do so. Little Tich Sep 2015 #5
Again with the Apartheid slander. shira Sep 2015 #7
Dunno if he can .... Israeli Sep 2015 #8
Aloni retired from politics in 1996 and passed away last year oberliner Sep 2015 #9
oberliner..... Israeli Sep 2015 #11
Disgusting comment oberliner Sep 2015 #12
Why ? Israeli Sep 2015 #15
What a despicable comment you have made about Oberliner King_David Sep 2015 #17
sue me KD . Israeli Sep 2015 #19
That's exactly what the dude who runs that 3rd rate blog does King_David Sep 2015 #20
Ass backwards as usual KD ... Israeli Sep 2015 #22
Shanah Tovah King_David Sep 2015 #23
All one tribe eh KD ? Israeli Sep 2015 #26
Your choice King_David Sep 2015 #29
That's Shulamit Aloni, not Meretz. Try again. shira Sep 2015 #10
Shulamit Aloni was Meretz shira..... Israeli Sep 2015 #13
She retired 20 years ago. What do u have that's recent from Meretz? n/t shira Sep 2015 #14
Yossi Sarid ........ Israeli Sep 2015 #16
I asked for a credible organization, not an individual. shira Sep 2015 #25
Sure shira sure ..... Israeli Sep 2015 #28
Everything you stand for? Newsflash: Meretz is a Zionist Party. shira Sep 2015 #30
Shulamit Aloni was a post zionist shira .... Israeli Sep 2015 #31
Most of those who vote for Meretz are post-Zionists? shira Sep 2015 #32
Good question ...... Israeli Sep 2015 #33
So you support Burg/Hadash not Meretz? oberliner Sep 2015 #34
I'm a post zionist oberliner..... Israeli Sep 2015 #38
Jimmy Carter: Israel's 'Apartheid' Policies Worse Than South Africa's Little Tich Sep 2015 #21
Carter: Hamas Leader committed to peace shira Sep 2015 #27
What do you think about this? Little Tich Sep 2015 #41
John Dugard is relied on heavily as a credible source for this study... shira Sep 2015 #42
The problem is that whatever damage Hamas caused must be seen in comparison to the damage Israel Little Tich Sep 2015 #43
Hamas rockets are war crimes. Amnesty & HRW get that one right. shira Sep 2015 #46
Carter: "Israel is a wonderful democracy with equal treatment of all citizens whether Arab or Jew" oberliner Sep 2015 #35
We seem to agree that the term "Apartheid" isn't applicable to Israel. Little Tich Sep 2015 #39
Well that's good oberliner Sep 2015 #44
3000 yrs ago the Israelites did the same thing to jericho nt msongs Sep 2015 #3
So Jews are indigenous to Israel going back over 3000 years? oberliner Sep 2015 #36
He's right on that. nt King_David Sep 2015 #40

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
1. Israel effectively controls and governs the West Bank. That is obvious.
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 09:06 PM
Sep 2015

And at DU, as in the world, many supporters of Israel continue to deny that Israel has any intentions of eliminating Palestine as a viable state.

They are pushing the Palestinian people into smaller and smaller spaces, even as they encourage Jews from every country in the world to immigrate to Israel. Where will they put all these immigrants? In Palestine, of course.

I had a recent discussion with a supporter of Israel who denied that Israel is taking land. I provided a link that shows (on a map) how the settlements have been physically growing.

I am still waiting for a response to that link/map.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
4. " response to that link/map. ".............
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:24 AM
Sep 2015
The idiot's guide to whitewashing the occupation

With a naive tone, jovial denial of the existence of Palestinians and winsome depiction of settlers and life in the West Bank, Israel’s settlement lobby creates an illustrated guide to hasbaraland.

The front cover features a paintbrush resting on a map of Greater Israel – i.e. the current territory of the State of Israel along with the occupied Palestinian territories – as an undivided landmass. (One wonders which side has been painted over.)


Source: http://972mag.com/the-idiots-guide-to-whitewashing-the-occupation/111533/

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
37. An excellent link.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 04:20 PM
Sep 2015

The "comic book" approach to revisionist history is much in evidence here.

Hated to see the maple leaf in the picture.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
6. You mean Israel controls area C, not areas A & B. As per Oslo...
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 06:22 AM
Sep 2015

...which the Palestinians, the UN, EU, UK, and US agreed to.



The rest of your post is nonsense too.

How many times do the Palestinians (their leaders) need to reject having their own state alongside Israel before you realize they don't want their own state as much as they want all the land (and Israel gone)?

Your position is highly hypocritical too.

1. What do u care about settlements when you advocate 1-state after full RoR? Those settlements would just be incorporated into your 1-state. I see why 2-state advocates would care about settlements. That's a legitimate concern, but 1-state advocates? Sheer hypocrisy.

2. This 1-state advocacy after full RoR also denies Jews their own state & sovereignty. So you're advocating the rights of one people at the expense of the other. You want to give Palestinians their rights by taking away the rights of Jews. And somehow this is Just and Moral? Seriously?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
18. Any easily guided person that believes that Israel only controls part of the West Bank is
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 09:07 AM
Sep 2015

not really reality-based.

Israel is pretty much the de-facto owner of the West Bank right now, and their illegal colonization of the West Bank proves this.

Their destruction of Palestinian properties proves this.

Their destruction of the Palestinian people proves this: shootings, bombings and the murder of children.


But there will always be a cadre of misguided individuals, who will jump through flaming hoops, in order to direct attention away from the human rights disaster that is the modern Israeli apartheid state.



So please keep up with your "Israel doesn't really..." nonsense, but the only ones who believe that are the ones who don't want to give back to the Palestinians what Israel has stolen from them.
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
24. Israel doesn't have any boots on the ground in Gaza or areas A or B....
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 12:37 PM
Sep 2015

....of the W.Bank. There are no settlers and no Jews in Gaza, nor in areas A or B either.

The rest of your post is sheer nonsense.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
47. Even if true (and it's not) that's not effective control. Try again.
Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:47 PM
Sep 2015

Because if it were, then any incursions by the US, UK, or NATO into any foreign country would be effective control (occupation).

What a nonsense accusation.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
48. No. You lose.
Mon Sep 14, 2015, 06:15 PM
Sep 2015

I delivered, and you choked by demanding more: changing the goal posts yet again.

Your failure is complete as usual.



As I noted earlier...

18. Any easily guided person that believes that Israel only controls part of the West Bank is not really reality-based.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
2. So 80 percent of demolition orders over the last 30 years have not actually been carried out
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 09:08 PM
Sep 2015

I wonder why that is.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
5. It's certainly not for lack of desire to do so.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:29 AM
Sep 2015

Fortunately, Israel is hesitant to start another intifada by demolishing too many Palestinian homes, and the world is beginning to take notice of Israel's mismanagement of the West Bank.

Apartheid is unpopular everywhere but in Israel.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
7. Again with the Apartheid slander.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 06:41 AM
Sep 2015

Here, try this...

Name 1 or 2 credible organizations that are in no way sympathetic to or supportive of Jew hating fascists (like Hamas) that claim Israel is Apartheid.

Is that asking too much? Can you do it?

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
8. Dunno if he can ....
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 07:14 AM
Sep 2015

but I can shira .....

Meretz ............which I once again remind you that you stated you would vote for if you could ..........

JANUARY 8, 2007

Yes, There is Apartheid in Israel

by SHULAMIT ALONI

Jewish self-righteousness is taken for granted among ourselves to such an extent that we fail to see what’s right in front of our eyes. It’s simply inconceivable that the ultimate victims, the Jews, can carry out evil deeds. Nevertheless, the state of Israel practises its own, quite violent, form of Apartheid with the native Palestinian population.

The US Jewish Establishment’s onslaught on former President Jimmy Carter is based on him daring to tell the truth which is known to all: through its army, the government of Israel practises a brutal form of Apartheid in the territory it occupies. Its army has turned every Palestinian village and town into a fenced-in, or blocked-in, detention camp. All this is done in order to keep an eye on the population’s movements and to make its life difficult. Israel even imposes a total curfew whenever the settlers, who have illegally usurped the Palestinians’ land, celebrate their holidays or conduct their parades.

If that were not enough, the generals commanding the region frequently issue further orders, regulations, instructions and rules (let us not forget: they are the lords of the land). By now they have requisitioned further lands for the purpose of constructing "Jewish only" roads. Wonderful roads, wide roads, well-paved roads, brightly lit at night–all that on stolen land. When a Palestinian drives on such a road, his vehicle is confiscated and he is sent on his way.

On one occasion I witnessed such an encounter between a driver and a soldier who was taking down the details before confiscating the vehicle and sending its owner away. "Why?" I asked the soldier. "It’s an order–this is a Jews-only road", he replied. I inquired as to where was the sign indicating this fact and instructing [other] drivers not to use it. His answer was nothing short of amazing. "It is his responsibility to know it, and besides, what do you want us to do, put up a sign here and let some antisemitic reporter or journalist take a photo so he that can show the world that Apartheid exists here?"

Indeed Apartheid does exist here. And our army is not "the most moral army in the world" as we are told by its commanders. Sufficient to mention that every town and every village has turned into a detention centre and that every entry and every exit has been closed, cutting it off from arterial traffic. If it were not enough that Palestinians are not allowed to travel on the roads paved ‘for Jews only’, on their land, the current GOC found it necessary to land an additional blow on the natives in their own land with an "ingenious proposal".

Humanitarian activists cannot transport Palestinians either.

Major-General Naveh, renowned for his superior patriotism, has issued a new order. Coming into affect on 19 January, it prohibits the conveyance of Palestinians without a permit. The order determines that Israelis are not allowed to transport Palestinians in an Israeli vehicle (one registered in Israel regardless of what kind of numberplate it carries) unless they have received explicit permission to do so. The permit relates to both the driver and the Palestinian passenger. Of course none of this applies to those whose labour serves the settlers. They and their employers will naturally receive the required permits so they can continue to serve the lords of the land, the settlers.

Did man of peace President Carter truly err in concluding that Israel is creating Apartheid? Did he exaggerate? Don’t the US Jewish community leaders recognise the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination of 7 March 1966, to which Israel is a signatory? Are the US Jews who launched the loud and abusive campaign against Carter for supposedly maligning Israel’s character and its democratic and humanist nature unfamiliar with the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid of 30 November 1973? Apartheid is defined therein as an international crime that among other things includes using different legal instruments to rule over different racial groups, thus depriving people of their human rights. Isn’t freedom of travel one of these rights?

In the past, the US Jewish community leaders were quite familiar with the meaning of those conventions. For some reason, however, they are convinced that Israel is allowed to contravene them. It’s OK to kill civilians, women and children, old people and parents with their children, deliberately or otherwise without accepting any responsibility. It’s permissible to rob people of their lands, destroy their crops, and cage them up like animals in the zoo. From now on, Israelis and International humanitarian organisations’ volunteers are prohibited from assisting a woman in labour by taking her to the hospital. [Israeli human rights group] Yesh Din volunteers cannot take a robbed and beaten-up Palestinian to the police station to lodge a complaint. (Police stations are located at the heart of the settlements.) Is there anyone who believes that this is not Apartheid?

Jimmy Carter does not need me to defend his reputation that has been sullied by Israelophile community officials. The trouble is that their love of Israel distorts their judgment and blinds them from seeing what’s in front of them. Israel is an occupying power that for 40 years has been oppressing an indigenous people, which is entitled to a sovereign and independent existence while living in peace with us. We should remember that we too used very violent terror against foreign rule because we wanted our own state. And the list of victims of terror is quite long and extensive.

We do limit ourselves to denying the [Palestinian] people human rights. We not only rob of them of their freedom, land and water. We apply collective punishment to millions of people and even, in revenge-driven frenzy, destroy the electricity supply for one and half million civilians. Let them "sit in the darkness" and "starve".

Employees cannot be paid their wages because Israel is holding 500 million shekels that belong to the Palestinians. And after all that we remain "pure as the driven snow". There are no moral blemishes on our actions. There is no racial separation. There is no Apartheid. It’s an invention of the enemies of Israel. Hooray for our brothers and sisters in the US! Your devotion is very much appreciated. You have truly removed a nasty stain from us. Now there can be an extra spring in our step as we confidently abuse the Palestinian population, using the "most moral army in the world".

[Translated by Sol Salbe]

SHULAMIT ALONI is the former Education Minister of Israel. She has been awarded both the Israel Prize and the Emil Grunzweig Human Rights Award by the Association for Civil Rights in Israel.

Source : http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/01/08/yes-there-is-apartheid-in-israel/

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
9. Aloni retired from politics in 1996 and passed away last year
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 07:17 AM
Sep 2015

The article is almost ten years old.

This is not the current position of Meretz.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
11. oberliner.....
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 08:06 AM
Sep 2015

At best you are a Centralist .....at worst you are a supporter of Kach ..

ref : http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134112536

By all means back up shira ....she is still proven wrong ...ref :

Name 1 or 2 credible organizations that are in no way sympathetic to or supportive of Jew hating fascists (like Hamas) that claim Israel is Apartheid.



King_David

(14,851 posts)
17. What a despicable comment you have made about Oberliner
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 09:05 AM
Sep 2015

That comment sounds like it comes from a 3rd rate blog that smears every Jewish Zionist poster with an accusation of being a "Kahanist "

Disgusting!

King_David

(14,851 posts)
20. That's exactly what the dude who runs that 3rd rate blog does
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 09:58 AM
Sep 2015

He's constantly in court suing everybody.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
22. Ass backwards as usual KD ...
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 10:19 AM
Sep 2015

I would not waste my time or effort or money on you or oberliner.

Your posts speak for themselves .....no court is needed .

King_David

(14,851 posts)
23. Shanah Tovah
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 10:57 AM
Sep 2015

Umetuka

שנה טובה

(I still like and respect you no matter how you feel about me)

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
26. All one tribe eh KD ?
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 12:41 PM
Sep 2015

Sorry to burst your bubble .

" (I still like and respect you no matter how you feel about me) "

Try me again at Yom Kippur when you and oberliner are ready to atone for insinuating that I am not Israeli .

I might be more receptive then ....there again I probably wont .

Sugar, Honey, Honey.........



 

shira

(30,109 posts)
10. That's Shulamit Aloni, not Meretz. Try again.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 07:47 AM
Sep 2015

Amos Oz, AB Yehoshua, and David Grossman are also Meretz.

They are not post-Zionists who cavort with neo-fascists. They're ZIONISTS with a capital 'Z'.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
25. I asked for a credible organization, not an individual.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 12:41 PM
Sep 2015

Israel = Apartheid is no more the Meretz position than it is the Democratic Party's position here in America.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
28. Sure shira sure .....
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 01:22 PM
Sep 2015
http://meretz.org.il/english/

Shulamit Aloni, the founder of Meretz, is one of the most impressive and principle-driven women the Israeli political system has known. In 2000 Aloni won the Israel Prize in the Contribution to Society category. The judges’ justification for her win was “her fight for human respect and for humans’ fundamental and natural rights, her acting as a voice for citizens, her fight for correcting injustices, and standing for equality of the different peoples and faiths in Israel and for mutual respect.”


Meretz views itself as a left-wing Israeli party that promotes human and civil rights, a social-democratic economic policy, a vehement opposition to continuing the occupation, and political moderation. Meretz believes in and promotes the values of equality, morality, justice and peace and is not ashamed to say, loud and clear, things that no other party dares to.


Everything you stand for we stand against .

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
30. Everything you stand for? Newsflash: Meretz is a Zionist Party.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 01:30 PM
Sep 2015

Right, they're everything Post- and Anti- Zionists stand for.



And you still haven't shown that the Meretz position is that Israel = Apartheid.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
31. Shulamit Aloni was a post zionist shira ....
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:00 PM
Sep 2015

.....most of us that vote Meretz are .....the rest of us vote Hadash .

What are you so worried about ???

The majority think as you do ......why do you need to pretend ?



 

shira

(30,109 posts)
32. Most of those who vote for Meretz are post-Zionists?
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:32 PM
Sep 2015

Really?

Why Meretz and not Hadash for the post-Zionists?

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
38. I'm a post zionist oberliner.....
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 04:25 PM
Sep 2015

I voted Meretz last elections ....and yes ...going Hadash is going further Left .

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
21. Jimmy Carter: Israel's 'Apartheid' Policies Worse Than South Africa's
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 10:09 AM
Sep 2015

Source: Haaretz, Dec 11, 2006

Former president stands by new book despite criticism, says it is meant to stimulate debate in U.S.

Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter said in remarks broadcast Monday that Israeli policy in the West Bank represented instances of apartheid worse even that those that once held sway in South Africa.

Carter's comments were broadcast on Israel Radio, which played a tape of an interview with the ex-president, but did not specify to whom Carter was speaking. But has made similar remarks in recent interviews, such as one to CBC television.

"When Israel does occupy this territory deep within the West Bank, and connects the 200-or-so settlements with each other, with a road, and then prohibits the Palestinians from using that road, or in many cases even crossing the road, this perpetrates even worse instances of apartness, or apartheid, than we witnessed even in South Africa."

Carter said his new book, "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" was meant to spark U.S. discussion of Israeli policies. "The hope is that my book will at least stimulate a debate, which has not existed in this country. There's never been any debate on this issue, of any significance."

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/jimmy-carter-israel-s-apartheid-policies-worse-than-south-africa-s-1.206865

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
27. Carter: Hamas Leader committed to peace
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 12:49 PM
Sep 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134102650#post1

Come on.

I asked for a credible organization, not individuals who believe Israel = Apartheid. Besides, here's what Carter said about Apartheid...

Yet anyone who actually reads the book knows that apartheid is not a major theme. The word occurs only twice in the index and three times in the text – when Carter uses it to explain that he doesn’t mean to equate Israel with South Africa’s racism, but rather as a reference to the acquisition of land.

So if he didn’t mean "apartheid", why did he use that emotive, damaging word? It was certainly a huckstering advertising winner and, together with the power of his presidential name, drove the book into the bestseller lists. Carter explained that he chose the title to be "provocative" because he wanted to publicize the "horrible treatment" of Palestinians, which he said was not known in the United States.

He insisted that using the word "apartheid" to describe Israel’s West Bank policies[font color = "red"] "should give no aid or comfort to any of those who have attempted to equate racism with Zionism."[/font] That drew a derisive comment from New York Times writer Roger Cohen: "Nice try, Jimmy. Trying to take race out of the word 'apartheid' is as far-fetched as trying to take Jew out of the word 'Zionism'. It doesn’t work."

http://www.i24news.tv/en/opinion/69175-150427-carter-the-apartheid-issue-and-israel




Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
41. What do you think about this?
Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:11 AM
Sep 2015
From Wikipedia article: Israel and the apartheid analogy

Analysis by International Legal Team
In 2009, a comprehensive 18-month independent academic study was completed for the Human Sciences Research Council of South Africa for the South African Department of Foreign Affairs on the legal status of Israel's occupation of East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[62] The specific questions examined in the study were whether Israeli policies are consistent with colonialism and apartheid, as these practices and regimes are spelled out in relevant international legal instruments. The second question, regarding apartheid, was the major focus of the study. Authors and analysts contributing to the study included jurists, academics and international lawyers from Israel, the occupied Palestinian territories, South Africa, England, Ireland and the United States. The team considered whether human rights law can be applied to cases of belligerent occupation, the legal context in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories and related international law and comparative practices. The question of apartheid was examined through a dual approach: reference to international law and comparison to policies and practices by the apartheid regime in South Africa. Initially released as a report, the report was later edited and published in 2012 (by Pluto Press) as Beyond Occupation: Apartheid, Colonialism and International Law in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

Regarding international law, the team reported that Israel's practices in the OPT correlate almost entirely with the definition of apartheid as established in Article 2 of the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid. (The exception was the Convention's reference to genocidal policies, which were not found to be part of Israeli practices, although the team noted that genocide was not the policy in apartheid South Africa either.) Comparison to South African laws and practices by the apartheid regime also found strong correlations with Israeli practices, including violations of international standards for due process (such as illegal detention); discriminatory privileges based on ascribed ethnicity (legally, as Jewish or non-Jewish); draconian enforced ethnic segregation in all parts of life, including by confining groups to ethnic "reserves and ghettoes"; comprehensive restrictions on individual freedoms, such as movement and expression; a dual legal system based on ethno-national identity (Jewish or Palestinian); denationalization (denial of citizenship); and a special system of laws designed selectively to punish any Palestinian resistance to the system.

Thematically, the team concluded that Israel's practices could be grouped into three "pillars" of apartheid comparable to practices in South Africa:

The first pillar "derives from Israeli laws and policies that establish Jewish identity for purposes of law and afford a preferential legal status and material benefits to Jews over non-Jews".

The second pillar is reflected in "Israel's 'grand' policy to fragment the OPT [and] ensure that Palestinians remain confined to the reserves designated for them while Israeli Jews are prohibited from entering those reserves but enjoy freedom of movement throughout the rest of the Palestinian territory. This policy is evidenced by Israel's extensive appropriation of Palestinian land, which continues to shrink the territorial space available to Palestinians; the hermetic closure and isolation of the Gaza Strip from the rest of the OPT; the deliberate severing of East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank; and the appropriation and construction policies serving to carve up the West Bank into an intricate and well-serviced network of connected settlements for Jewish-Israelis and an archipelago of besieged and non-contiguous enclaves for Palestinians".

The third pillar is "Israel's invocation of 'security' to validate sweeping restrictions on Palestinian freedom of opinion, expression, assembly, association and movement [to] mask a true underlying intent to suppress dissent to its system of domination and thereby maintain control over Palestinians as a group."


Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy

The reason I'm posting this is because I've never heard of this study before, and it seems to be in line what I already know about the situation in the occupied territories, but I wonder what your opinion is about how serious this study is. After all, you do have a knack for being well-informed...
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
42. John Dugard is relied on heavily as a credible source for this study...
Sun Sep 13, 2015, 07:44 AM
Sep 2015

Same John Dugard who not only believes Hamas rockets into Israel are a form of legit resistance, but that Israel doesn't have a right to self-defense against them either.

JOHN DUGARD: Well, it’s very important for Israel that it should portray itself as the victim in the present conflict. And President Obama and both houses of Congress have endorsed the view that Israel acts in self-defense. But as I see the situation, it is very different. Gaza is an occupied territory. It’s part of the occupied Palestinian territory. The fact that Israel has withdrawn its ground troops, or had before the present incursion, does not mean that it is no longer the occupying power, because it has always retained control, effective control, over the territory of Gaza. That’s the test in international law: effective control. Israel controls Gaza by means of the land crossings, by controlling the air space and the sea space, and by carrying out repeated incursions into the territory.

So given the fact that Gaza is an occupied territory, it means that Israel’s present assault on Gaza is simply a way of enforcing the continuation of the occupation, and the response of the Palestinian militants should be seen as the response of an occupied people that wishes to resist the occupation. It has taken this resistance into Israel itself, but it still remains resistance. And I think it would be very helpful to see the occupation of Gaza in the same context as one might see, for instance, the occupation of, shall we say, Netherlands during the Second World War by Germany. It’s an occupied territory, and if Israel uses force against the occupied territory, it’s not acting in self-defense. It’s acting as an occupying power.


http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/6/can_israel_claim_self_defense_against

This guy was special UN Rappertoir for the Palestinian Territories, for years. Hamas rockets are war crimes, but legitimate to Dugard.



Sense a pattern yet?

There are no credible organizations calling Israel Apartheid (Colonial, Genocidal, Ethnic Cleanser, etc..) that aren't supportive of the fascist Jew haters of Hamas. They just repeat the same incitement & insanity that Hamas, Iran, & Qatar spew on a daily basis.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
43. The problem is that whatever damage Hamas caused must be seen in comparison to the damage Israel
Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:30 PM
Sep 2015

caused.

Dugard seems to be saying that what Israel did in Gaza is worse than what Hamas did in Israel, and that Israel didn't do it self-defense. Whether the rockets actually constitute a war crime is up to debate, as they don't kill that many people.

Fortunately, the Gaza war will be investigated by the ICC, and one day we will know whether war crimes were committed.

But do you have any objections to the findings of the study at all? If it's flawed, it's because it's flawed, not because who wrote it...

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
46. Hamas rockets are war crimes. Amnesty & HRW get that one right.
Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:45 PM
Sep 2015

Do you at least see a problem with people who support rockets launched indiscriminately from Jew hating fascists like Hamas & Islamic Jihad into populated areas?

Try to understand that for the vast majority of Jews, it's hard to take people seriously who support, defend, or justify Hamas attacks on innocents. That's why this report you cited is crap.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
35. Carter: "Israel is a wonderful democracy with equal treatment of all citizens whether Arab or Jew"
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 04:05 PM
Sep 2015

Most of the people that seem to be critical have not read the book, or they haven’t referred to anything inside Palestine, and the book is not written about Israel at all. I know that Israel is a wonderful democracy with equal treatment of all citizens whether Arab or Jew. And so I very carefully avoided talking about anything inside Israel.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/12/13/carters-rhetoric-of-apartheid/

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
39. We seem to agree that the term "Apartheid" isn't applicable to Israel.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 11:57 PM
Sep 2015

I also agree with Jimmy Carter's assessment that the term is applicable to the occupied territories. Do you agree or disagree with his assessment?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
44. Well that's good
Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:56 PM
Sep 2015

I can see why Carter would use that term with respect to the occupied territories, though I think it is inapt because it implies a racial component that does not exist (as Carter himself has pointed out). I am less concerned with the nomenclature and more concerned with figuring out a way to get both sides together to support an argument along the lines of the Geneva Initiative (of which Carter was an early proponent and supporter).

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