Netanyahu cabinet members reject two-state solution; call for annexation of occupied territories

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/netanyahu-annexation-territories

Over the weekend Israel’s right-wing politicians and key advisers in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s cabinet laid the groundwork to formally abandon a two-state solution with the Palestinians and crystallize a policy towards annexation. The proposals were unveiled at the Herzliya Conference, Israel’s premier security forum where major government changes are often debuted—it was at this venue where the 2005 disengagement from Gaza was announced.

“I negate the idea of a two state-solution,” Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely said. As Israel’s chief foreign relations official, Hotovely is responsible for representing Israel if negotiations with the Palestinians were to resume. She spoke at length claiming Palestinian actions over recent months to boycott Israel at FIFA, and their refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish state show the Palestinians are in no mood for a peace deal. They “want to put Israel alongside al-Qaeda,” she said.

“More than the Palestinians want a solution they want to actually put the Israelis on a bench to be accused and caught. In other words, their ethos is a negative ethos,” she said. Hotovely then read a roster of new principles that the Palestinians, Israelis, and the broader Middle East would need to meet in order for Israel to be receptive to a future Palestinian state, inserting redlines never discussed in previous peace talks: (1) Israelis must act as “a just society that is loyal to the principles of a Jewish state”; (2) The Palestinians must, “instead of suicide and education towards terror they have to recognize Israel as a jewish state and express their will to live alongside it; (3) Arab countries hosting Palestinian refugee camps must dismantle the infrastructure and absorb the displaced.

Hotovely closed by stating her opinion was that the Palestinians and Arab countries would not meet these tenets, therefore the issue of two-states was closed with the Palestinians to blame.

This is why we need BDS: Israel and their cheerleaders want annexation and the continuation of their open apartheid regime.

[on point]

1. Yes, move to one state secular solution. Let Israel disappear and palestinians return.

[hack89]

2. A secular state?

You really think Hamas will stand for that?

[Scootaloo]

3. Well, the israeli deputy Foreign Minister wouldn't, for sure

She runs off high-octane god-juice. As far as I can figure, she's kind of an Israeli Michelle Bachman... Doesn't quite work since Michelle Bachman is a corndog-snarfing punchline and Hotevley is a deputy foreign minister... But imagine if bachman were taken seriously.

[hack89]

4. No one on either side will bring about peace

That is the real tragedy of the situation.

[Scootaloo]

5. One side can't. The other won't.

That's a fundamental distinction.

[hack89]

7. Both sides can certainly stop trying to kill each other

Nobody forced Hamas to initiate the bloody suicide campaign that has landed them in their present predicament. No one forced them to build over 50 tunnels into Israel either.

[jaysunb]

17. The tunnels are there because The Israelies won't permit

the Palestinian's open access to essential goods and medicine.

[oberliner]

18. There are tunnels into Israel to get essential goods and medicine?

Are you serious?

[hack89]

34. You have mixed up your tunnels

You are thinking about the smuggling tunnels into Eygpt. The tunnels into Israel are for military purposes.

[oberliner]

6. You have no idea what you are talking about

Hotovely on mehadrin bus: Won't allow autonomous sub-states

Knesset Committee for the Status of Women chairwoman Tzipi Hotovely (Likud) boarded a "mehadrin" segregated bus line in order to protest the exclusion of women in the public sphere Thursday morning. The female MK sat in the front of the bus, on which women are asked to sit in the back.

Hotovely described the action as part of a larger struggle over the basic principals of the state. "We cannot let certain groups to live in a de facto autonomous state inside the State of Israel," she said.

The decision to ride on the segregated buses, she added, "is an inseparable part of elected officials' obligation to be acquainted with reality, so that they can act to change it."

http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Hotovely-on-mehadrin-bus-Wont-allow-autonomous-sub-states

[Scootaloo]

8. Was it one of the other foreign ministers pushing the "god gave us this land" claim?

I have to admit, I do get my liberal Zionists mixed up, especially when they all hold the same government positions.

Quick google search later? Nope, not mistaken.

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/foreign-minister-hotovely-tell-the-world-god-gave-israel-to-the-jews/2015/05/22/

De facto Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely told Israeli diplomats Thursday that her policy is to deliver a message to the world that “this land is ours” because God gave it to the Jews.

[oberliner]

11. The bus thing was pretty cool though

At least she stands up for women.

She is comparatively secular, which says something scary about the ultra-orthodox.

[Israeli]

32. What !!!!!!!.....

ref: " She is comparatively secular, "

Wow oberliner......just wow .

She is Orthodox !!

World may find Israel's new deputy foreign minister hard to swallow

By Haaretz | May 15, 2015

After a long and strenuous saga of negotiations and delays, Israel's new government was finally sworn in on Thursday, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in charge of several ministries - including the Foreign Ministry.

But in the absence of a dedicated, full-time foreign minister (at least until Zionist Union's Isaac Herzog joins the coalition, as some analysts predict), it will fall to Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely (Likud) to handle what promises to be an "interesting" term: Continued efforts by the Palestinians to internationalize the conflict, including charging Israel in the International Criminal Court, an ongoing drive to boycott Israel and the settlements, and an increasingly tense relationship with the United States.

Hotovely's stances may put her on a collision course with the international community: A hardliner with regards to the Palestinians, Hotovely opposes the two-state solution and is in favor of annexing the West Bank (which she terms Judea and Samaria, using the biblical names for the region).

Hotovely believes that after annexation Israel could initiate a gradual process of granting Israeli citizenship to the Palestinians.

The international community may also find Hotovely's stance on intermarriage hard to swallow: In her capacity as chairwoman of the Status of Women Committee in the Knesset in 2011, she invited the racist group Lehava to explain how they prevent romantic contacts between Jews and Arabs. Responding to criticism, Hotovely said it was "important to examine procedures for preventing mixed marriages, and Lehava members are the right people for that," Walla reported.

As a religious woman, Hotovely generally does not shake hands with men, making meet-and-greets with foreign diplomats problematic. However, she allayed concerns of an impending "shake-gate," telling Yedioth Aharonoth that she intends to act according to the halakha which rules that if a man offers his hand to a woman, it is customary to shake it so as not to insult him. "It's not a problem at all," she said. "When someone meets foreign representatives the Jewish halakha recognizes respect, etiquette and politeness," she said.

The 36-year-old Hotovely is a relative unknown to the international media, but is a household name in Israel, as both a prominent female member of the mostly male Likud party and as one of Likud's most vocal supporters of the settlements.

This fact did not go unnoticed by Netanyahu, who enlisted Hotovely as his campaign chief in the settlements during the last election campaign, poaching precious votes from his ally-cum-rival Naftali Bennett and his Habayit Hayehudi party.

The deputy foreign minister portfolio is Hotovely's highest cabinet position to date – serving previously as deputy transport minister and deputy science minister.

Hotovely entered the political game at the tender age of 29, running for the Knesset on behalf of Likud and becoming the 18th Knesset youngest member.

Before turning to politics, Hotovely followed a career in law and as a political commentator, writing op-eds for Maariv newspaper and appearing as a regular guest on news panels as the representative of the right wing.

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/1.656661

[guillaumeb]

9. Interesting quote in your post.

When Tzipi Hotovely said:"We cannot let certain groups to live in a de facto autonomous state inside the State of Israel".

Given that many right wing Zionists regard ALL of Palestine as "greater Israel", her statement about not allowing "certain groups" to live in a de facto autonomous state certainly applies to Palestinians also. They show their true colors when speaking, then try to lie and cover up what they want.

The reality that she and others in the government will not admit is that Israel has stolen so much land, and encouraged so many Jews to immigrate to Israel, that the Israeli government now claims that there is no way to remove the illegal settlements. A truly bizarre choice of words that conveys their worldview.

[oberliner]

12. Good point

It's a very twisted way of looking at things.

[Ken Burch]

22. In other words, she favors apartheid in the West Bank.

That's what annexation of the West Bank without giving Palestinians the vote in Israeli elections would be. It could never be anything else, since it would be impossible, were that extreme and anti-democratic step taken, for Palestinians ever to have a decent, prosperous life(since no one can have a decent life if they don't have a say in how the state they live under is governed).

[guillaumeb]

39. I think that Netanyahu's government favors an apartheid type state.

Without calling it apartheid, of course. It does not poll well.

[geek tragedy]

10. You're embarrassing yourself, as it turns out you're the one who doesn't

know what they're talking about


http://www.timesofisrael.com/deputy-fm-tells-diplomats-the-whole-land-is-ours/

“It’s important to say — this country is all ours. We didn’t come here to apologize for that,” Hotovely said.

During her speech, Hotovely cited the 11th-century Bible commentator Rashi, who explained the Bible’s focus on the story of the Jewish people’s origins in the Land of Israel and its exodus from Egypt to the Promised Land was meant to shore up the Jewish claim to the land in subsequent generations.

Diplomats were shocked at the speech, the Haaretz daily reported, and many “raised an eyebrow” over the reference to a Jewish Biblical right to the land.

“It’s the first time anyone has asked us to use verses from the Torah for public diplomacy abroad,” one diplomat was quoted as saying.

[oberliner]

13. Probably not a good idea to highlight anything positive about her

But I mean the bus thing was admirable at least, wasn't it?

[geek tragedy]

14. I'm sure Michelle Bachmann is a wonderful grandmother.

Israel's acting foreign minister is a far-right wing religious fanatic who believes Jehovah should be the basis for her nation's foreign policy.

[oberliner]

15. She is not a religious fanatic

She is a pretty run of the mill observant Jewish person as far as that goes.

[geek tragedy]

16. Arguing that holy texts should define national boundaries

makes one a raging fundyclown.

[oberliner]

19. What about arguing that holy texts should determine what foods one is allowed to eat?

Believing that Israel was promised to the Jews by God is as routine to a Modern Orthodox Jew as believing that God doesn't want you to eat bacon. If you are observant than everything you do and believe is grounded in those holy texts.

The same goes for observant Muslims and Christians, etc.

[geek tragedy]

23. When a dinner plate denies self-determination

for two million human beings and leads to apartheid, war, and fascism, then maybe that comparison will make sense.

Hers is a medieval mentality. Ex post the Renaissance in the west diplomacy is driven by secular concerns, not whose god is the true one.

Her foreign policy vision is industinguishable from that of ISIS.

[oberliner]

36. "Her foreign policy vision is industinguishable from that of ISIS."

Ok, now you are embarrassing yourself.

[geek tragedy]

38. They're both medievalist theocratic holy warrior

approaches to statecraft.

ISIS is more brutal than she would likely be, but the logic is the same.

[Israeli]

33. She is ....n/t.

[oberliner]

37. Do you consider all Modern Orthodox to be fundies?

If not, what differentiates a "fundy" from a "non-fundy" among the Modern Orthodox?

[Israeli]

41. You just ignored my post # 32 .....

" She is comparatively secular, "

There is nothing " secular " about her oberliner.
She is as religious Right wing as it gets .
I suggest you go do some research on her ....and her views on the Geneva Accord that you keep pushing on here ....and what she thinks about Yossi Beilin and the rest of us Left wing traitors.

You American Jews cant tell your Right hand from your Left ....or maybe you just have a thing about female politicians called Tzipi ???

[oberliner]

42. Comparatively

For example, she thinks men and women can ride on buses together.

[Israeli]

43. The orthodox versus the ultra orthodox is another story ....

....its not relevant to this OP.

The " men and women " you are referring to are all Jewish .

Would she , for example , do the same on mixed Palestinian and settler buses within the West Bank ?

[Israeli]

45. You sure you are not confusing the two Tzipi's ??

Livni: Settlers want ‘apartheid’ buses

If the ban on Palestinians riding on settler buses is due to settler pressure, the justice minister said, 'that’s something I find unacceptable, and I’ll work against it.'

By Haaretz

Settlers’ demands that Jews and Palestinians travel on separate buses smack of apartheid, Justice
Minister Tzipi Livni said in an interview with Army Radio Thursday.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/1.623770

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

46. Well, ober, you keep repeating that like it is a plus

in her column.

[Ken Burch]

21. UH...that's "YHWH", not "Jehovah".

"Jehovah" is an early Christian version of the name, and not appropriate for usage in this context.

[geek tragedy]

24. .

[Ken Burch]

25. Part of the joke there is that they are talking about first-century Israel

in modern-day English.

[geek tragedy]

26. Part of the joke, yes.

Jehovah, Yahweh, God, Allah--same entity (well, Christians have that weird metaphysical tripartite spin, but I digress).

[Ken Burch]

27. It's an issue because "Jehovah" was a form of the word

that was invented by Christians during the era when Christianity was at its most virulently antisemitic.

It's kind of the same thing as non-Muslims referring to The Prophet as "Mahound".

My intent isn't to hassle you here, just to clarify why this matters.

Not disputing that you posted(as you always do)with positive intent.

[geek tragedy]

28. Christianity had a pretty steady millennium of anti-semitism

starting with the Crusades and ending 1945.

[Ken Burch]

29. True. And not in conflict with my point.

Another way to look at it is that "Jehovah" was a word coined by English Christians at a time when it was basically illegal for Jews to even live in England.

[geek tragedy]

31. I guess I see the semantics as irrelevant.

I can take this religious stuff only so seriously.

[Ken Burch]

20. Can we at least all agree...

...that if the Israeli government did annex the West Bank, without giving Palestinians the vote in Israeli elections, that Israel as a nation would forever lose the right to ask the Arab world to accept it and make peace with it?

That such an action would delegitimize Israel as a nation?

(Obviously, I assume that most "pro-Israel" posters on DU would oppose annexation and call for Netanyahu's regime to renounce the idea, since annexation would be an unforgiveable betrayal of the founding ideals of the state, which vowed to be a state in which all who lived within it were to be treated as equals).

[sabbat hunter]

35. I would oppose

annexation of the WB, and I call for Bibi to renounce that idea. Unless of course israel gave the Palestinians full and immediate citizenship, and all the rights that came with that (ie voting in elections, free speech, etc etc).

[Ken Burch]

44. Thank you. n/t.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

48. Israel is doing a bang up job delegitimizing itself without annexing anything...sad to say.

[Jefferson23]

40. Charming as usual.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

47. No kidding, and all the hasbarists either ignore it,

try to side step it or attempt to change the argument completely to frame them as the victims.

Fucking hilarious.