Haniyeh: Israeli admission on Deif proves war crimes charge

[bemildred]

Israeli defense sources have in recent days conceded that Hamas military leader Mohammed Deif survived an assassination attempt during the Gaza conflict last summer.

Hamas politburo chief Ismail Haniyeh responded to the reports in Israeli media outlets: "The Israeli admission of the failed assassination attempt exposes the scale of the Israeli military's frustration. The admission proves that Israel carried out war crimes that harmed civilians and United Nations facilities."

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Throughout Operation Protective Edge, the Shin Bet and Military Intelligence made enormous effort to take out the Hamas military leadership, without partial success. Unlike the start of Operation Pillar of Defense in 2012, and the killing of Hamas military leader Ahmed Jabari, most of the military commanders successfully targeted in Protective Edge were in a relatively junior position.


The day after the assassination attempt on Deif, Israel assassinated three senior Hamas three members, including Raed Al-Attar, who led the abduction of Gilad Shalit, and who was also considered an expert on tunnels.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4652016,00.html

[hack89]

1. Hiding in a bunker below a hospital is one way to stay safe. nt

[Israeli]

2. Have you ever heard of Gershon Baskin bemildred ?

ref : " and the killing of Hamas military leader Ahmed Jabari "

If not see :

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-peace-activist-hamas-leader-jabari-killed-amid-talks-on-long-term-truce.premium-1.478085

According to Baskin, during the past two years Jabari internalized the realization that the rounds of hostilities with Israel were beneficial neither to Hamas nor to the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip and only caused suffering, and several times he acted to prevent firing by Hamas into Israel.

“I am mainly sad. This is sad for me. I am seeing people getting killed and that is what is making me sad. I tell myself that with every person who is killed we are engendering the next generation of haters and terrorists,” adds Baskin.

[bemildred]

3. Yes, I had heard of that.

Did you see this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016121242

The two things seem connected to me.

[Israeli]

4. I dont get it ...

explain please .

[bemildred]

5. The assassination policy leads to bloody chaos.

It does not restore order, but does the opposite.

As one can easily see in numerous places around the planet, but certainly Israel and its environs will serve the purpose too.

[bemildred]

6. You kill Jafari, you get Deif.

Who was that cute little guy in the Wheelchair that used to run Hamas? He tried to make a deal too.

[Israeli]

7. I get it ....

.....you kill Rabin you get Bibi .

Ahmed Yassin.

[bemildred]

8. Yeah, that's the guy, Yassin.

Look at Yemen. Look at Iraq. Look at Syria. Look at Libya. Those are the fruits of the assassination policy, and it is spreading.

And then you have the Drug War and the same result. We tried it very vigorously in Vietnam, and lost.

[Israeli]

9. I was 13 when JFK was assassinated ....

I remember my mother trying to explain ....and me trying to explain to my kids when Rabin went the same way .

If both of them had lived ....you and I could be having a completely different conversation right now ...and dont forget Anwar Sadat....or Martin Luther King.

Each of them paid the price for going against the conventional wisdom of their time .

Does the assassination policy pay ?

Well... its paid off for our Right wing .....that is abundantly clear today .

[bemildred]

10. I was 19.

It's a tactic, not a strategy. They have no strategy, they have dogma. In the end we will all pay, them included, or our children. What they have got for their efforts so far is rising international isolation and a violent ghetto next door, with several others nearby, all fertile grounds for what they claim to be stamping out, and fond of shooting rockets at them too.

This is not unlike the situation in the US and the EU where being inundated with refugees from our military follies has become hard to ignore.

[oberliner]

12. Rabin was a Zionist

You were a fan of his?

[King_David]

13. Rabin was a Zionist, liberator of Jerusalem too

And anything but a "Post-Zionist "

[bemildred]

15. We are not talking about Zionism, or anything related to it, except

in the fact that it's not different, just because you are a Zionist doesn't mean you get a free ride when you are stupid.

We are talking about assassination as a political instrument and the pernicious long-term effect it induces in your society and in your enemies.

And it is an instrument of the weak, first you invade and occupy, then you find out you have resistance and it costs a bundle to suppress it, and you start looking for cheap alternatives to keep the lid on, see, and you start quietly killing off the leaders. And what you get are the dumb ones and nice ones, so after a while all the leaders are smart and mean. And in fact you find the entire society you are sitting on is getting smarter and meaner all the time. Suppressed societies don't just sit there. They adapt.

And the Saudis are about to find out what happens then, I think. Yemen had been adapting for some decades now. But ISIL will serve the purpose too.

And using mercs in your wars is not a good sign either.

[oberliner]

17. I know

I was just surprised that a post-Zionist was an admirer of such an ardent Zionist.

[Israeli]

18. I was ignoring their comments on purpose bemildred...

small minded and mean ....and with total ignorance of what post zionism is all about .

" Suppressed societies don't just sit there. They adapt. "

Exactly .

[oberliner]

19. Ignoring people is the BDS way

I would expect nothing less.

[bemildred]

20. Nothing about you intended.

I said this here back when Jabba was trashing the Oslo accords, and when they started the wall, and I've been watching it happen since. Sometimes I just feel like pointing it out again. Everybody goes deer-in-the-headlights when I bring it up.

[Israeli]

23. Its all okay with us ....

their comments just put paid to a good conversation between us yesterday thats all ....come to think of it ...thats probably why they butted in .

[King_David]

22. Actually you never ignored it

[Israeli]

24. I'm ignoring you now KD ...

now and forever .

[King_David]

27. Great , thank you....

But if you really come from a kibbutz in Israel I'm the only Jewish Gay opinion you will hear , unless of course you visit Tel Aviv...

If you really from Israel that is...

BeHatzlachah.

( means with success - so you don't have to ask someone what it means)

[Israeli]

21. Much more oberliner....

My father served with him and was wounded at Kfar Vitkin under his command during the Altalena fiasco ....they were life long friends .
I knew him as a child and as an adult .... I loved him .
My whole family was there the night he was shot ....it changed us in ways you cant even imagine I quit Peace Now and joined Gush Shalom because of Yigal Amir and those he followed ...it was there I learnt about post zionism .
We all have stories as to why ..most of them tragic .....Avraham Burg never got over Emil Grunzweig's assassination right in front of him in 1983....he and I and Shulamit Aloni and many others became post zionists around the same time .
You will never understand us oberliner ....unless you come across those like Yona Avrushmi and Yigal Amir ....and that I wouldnt wish on anyone .

[shira]

26. Okay, so why not carry on with Rabin's work? Why go rogue?

Rabin would never become a post- or anti-Zionist.

So what gives?

[Israeli]

28. Rabin was murdered so that ....

.......the occupation could continue shira .

We are anti-occupation activists ...and we consider that we are moving on in Rabin's path :



Not my problem if you dont understand post zionism ....I suggest you go study us , not on your Right wing websites tho

[shira]

29. There is nothing suggesting Rabin would ever go rogue & become a post- or anti- Zionist....

His last speech before the Knesset (just weeks before he was assassinated) reads like something Bibi would have said about a 2-state solution.

Members of Knesset,

We are striving for a permanent solution to the unending bloody conflict between us and the Palestinians and the Arab states.

In the framework of the permanent solution, we aspire to reach, first and foremost, the State of Israel as a Jewish state, at least 80% of whose citizens will be, and are, Jews.

At the same time, we also promise that the non-Jewish citizens of Israel -- Muslim, Christian, Druze and others -- will enjoy full personal, religious and civil rights, like those of any Israeli citizen. Judaism and racism are diametrically opposed.

We view the permanent solution in the framework of State of Israel which will include most of the area of the Land of Israel as it was under the rule of the British Mandate, and alongside it a Palestinian entity which will be a home to most of the Palestinian residents living in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

We would like this to be an entity which is less than a state, and which will independently run the lives of the Palestinians under its authority. The borders of the State of Israel, during the permanent solution, will be beyond the lines which existed before the Six Day War. We will not return to the 4 June 1967 lines.

And these are the main changes, not all of them, which we envision and want in the permanent solution:

A. First and foremost, united Jerusalem, which will include both Ma'ale Adumim and Givat Ze'ev -- as the capital of Israel, under Israeli sovereignty, while preserving the rights of the members of the other faiths, Christianity and Islam, to freedom of access and freedom of worship in their holy places, according to the customs of their faiths.

B. The security border of the State of Israel will be located in the Jordan Valley, in the broadest meaning of that term.

C. Changes which will include the addition of Gush Etzion, Efrat, Beitar and other communities, most of which are in the area east of what was the "Green Line," prior to the Six Day War.

D. The establishment of blocs of settlements in Judea and Samaria, like the one in Gush Katif.

Your friends in the post- and anti- Zionist movements see this as an indication Rabin is no different than any other leaders like Livni, Herzog, Barak, the entire Meretz party, etc....

Ask them here and you'll see.

[Jefferson23]

11. That's what they do, give strength to the rise of what they're against. If they pull off

a bantustan for the Palestinians and leave the major settlement blocs to Israel which
anyone paying attention to their words and actions knows to be true, what do they
imagine will rise from such a total defeat?

Political power, military supremacy with willing constituents can make a government arrogant as well as dumb.

[shira]

25. Baskin: "Hamas deliberately aimed at open fields"

Who the f-ck believes this crap?

Well, for sure the Israel-Sucks brigade will believe anything that makes Israel look bad. But how about sane people who are not delusional?

There's a real world, and then there's this kinda crap that just makes people dumber.

[King_David]

14. The Irony of a leader of Hamas calling out anyone in this world for "war crimes"

[bemildred]

16. You are right that his argument does not work. nt