Ahead of elections, Green Party stands by Israel boycott stance

[Jefferson23]

Monday, 20 April 2015


Natalie Bennett, Green Party leader

As Britain prepares to go to the polls in two weeks, the Green party has stuck by its support for a boycott of Israel, the only mainstream party to take such a position.

Speaking to The Jewish Chronicle last Friday, Green Party leader Natalie Bennett emphasised that "the boycott of Israel is Green Party policy."

She added: "We need to get the message across to the Israeli state. It needs to comply with international law and human rights."

The Green Party manifesto calls for the suspension of the EU-Israel Association Agreement, the framework for a preferential trade deal and other areas of co-operation.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/18141-ahead-of-elections-green-party-stands-by-israel-boycott-stance

[Little Tich]

1. We are beginning to see the results of the Netanyahu effect, I think.

However, to boycott Israel proper and to suspend trade agreements is to me a stupid position that is way too extreme. I think that the boycott should be limited to the crap that's produced in the settlements and the companies that support them.

In fact, I think the position of the British Green Party is dangerous.

[Jefferson23]

2. Boycotts take a long time to reach the desired outcome. I don't think there is time, regardless.

The Palestinians do not have Abbas supporting any boycott, they also have a divided
not united front within their political body. They need more than a boycott to see
a viable state ever coming to fruition.

The US lawmakers are doing their part to give cover, just in case.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026536737

[oberliner]

21. What's the desired outcome?

Is there any kind of agreement on what that is?

[aranthus]

3. One seat in Parliament makes them mainstream?

They are a far Left party. Of course they are for a boycott. They are also insignificant.

[shira]

4. England’s Green Party Has an Anti-Semitism Problem

http://forward.com/opinion/world/218737/england-s-green-party-has-an-anti-semitism-probl/

At a forum with voters in February, Green Party leader Natalie Bennett was asked what she would do to ensure that Jews feel safe in Britain. Bennett rambled on vaguely about funding inter-communal dialogue without even mentioning Jews, indicating that the problem of anti-Semitism was one she had never thought about before.

The Greens have emerged in recent years in England as a left-wing alternative to Labor and the Liberal Democrats, but increased representation has also brought closer scrutiny, including how their commitment to a society free from discrimination relates to Jews.

We’ve known for a while that the Greens have an Israel problem. Their current manifesto includes pledges to halt arms sales to Israel — equating them with Saudi Arabia as a violator of human rights — and suspend the E.U.-Israel Association Agreement, which grants Israel economic benefits and closer scientific and cultural cooperation with Europe.

The Greens support either a one- or two-state solution, and call on Israel to repeal its Law of Return as “it is incompatible with the full exercise of human rights and discriminates against Palestinians because they are not Jewish.” They also favor the full implementation of U.N. Resolution 194, with all that would portend for Israel’s status as a Jewish state.

But the Greens don’t just have issues with Zionism. As early as 2010, observers noted that “too often a sympathy for the plight of Palestinians spills over into full-blown anti-Semitism.”

Internal party communications reveal that articles by the fascist British National Party and white supremacist David Duke have been circulated on party discussion forums. Other posts on these forums have referred to the Board of Deputies of British Jews as the “Zionist lobby,” adding “we must smash the Zionists.” Zionism in these discussions has been characterized as a form of racial discrimination, “incompatible with Green views,” and “an ancient theological fantasy.” During Operation Protective Edge, Israel was accused of visiting a second Holocaust upon the Palestinians.

[King_David]

5. Quelle surprise!

[Little Tich]

6. You seem to be suffering from imaginary anti-Semitism.

Legitimate criticism of Israel isn't anti-Semitism. You seem to conflate these two things quite often.

[aranthus]

7. Demanding policies that end the Jewish state isn't just criticism.

Wanting a one state solution and full right of return isn't just criticizing Israeli policy, and it definitely isn't legitimate. It's seeking the end of the Jewish state, which is per se antisemitic.

[azurnoir]

8. Is Israel the Jewish State, a name which completely discounts and devalues 20+% of it's citizens

the Greens are not asking for the end of Israel anymore than the supporters of the boycott against South Africa were asking for South Africa to be destroyed

[shira]

12. What's wrong with 2 states for 2 people? Where a minority of each....

....is welcome to live and choose to be in the other state?

[King_David]

14. It's pretty repugnant to deny Israel is the Jewish state

And that kind of thinking has absolutely no room in the Democratic Party.


Obama promises security for ‘Israel – a Jewish state’

http://www.timesofisrael.com/obama-promises-security-for-israel-a-jewish-state/

[azurnoir]

15. Your article is good humor in January of 2014 ToI had Obama determining a key negotiating point

in one sentence, my how times have changed

My question stands and it was that question that caused Israels recent elections because Livni and Lapid were also unsure

[King_David]

17. That shows a complete lack of understanding

they were not unsure at all that Israel is the Jewish state they didn't think it necessary to enshrine it constitutionally.

That's what Zionism is and Obama , Livni and Lapid are most certainly Zionists.

These are basic IP concepts that you apparently don't grasp .

[King_David]

18. This is not even from a left wing paper here :

Obama in 2011 sketched the ultimate diplomatic goal as "two states for two people: Israel as a Jewish state and the homeland for the Jewish people and the State of Palestine as the homeland for the Palestinian people."

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=3847


Your hoping the idiot Netanyahu changed Obamas attitude toward Israel I guess?

Ain't gonna happen and Hillary as president will be even more adamant in this regard.

[azurnoir]

20. think you're grasping at straws Livni and Lapid refused to sign on to a Jewish State bill

so what Obama said 4 years ago will supercede 2 Israeli MK's who's rfefusal to sign on to a bill caused Israeli elections?

[King_David]

24. I think you don't quite understand this IP

And what Zionism is all about and that the vast vast vast Majority of Jews are Zionists and consider Israel to be the Jewish state.

Your opinion as expressed in the topic as stated I'm sure is not taken seriously by anyone.

Israel is the Jewish state and if you think Livni and Lapid think otherwise you just have absolutely no grasp on this topic whatsoever.

On that note I'll leave this as I can't argue "the absurd ".

[azurnoir]

37. or you can not argue that Livni and Lapid's refusal to sign onto the Jewish State bill

caused the government to fold

[King_David]

41. Because it's irrelevant

C ya

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

51. Run, rabbit, run...

[King_David]

53. I see you not only consider yourself a guardian of the Palestinian people

Or leader of another people's but a "heavy" in the IP group too?

That's too funny.

BTW in South African slang a "rabbit" is a derogatory term for a Gay Dude.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

54. It's also a lot of things.

BTW:

[King_David]

55. Yes but in pretty sure it is used for a reason

It's no coincidence

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

57. Again, you couldn't be more wrong.

Just the usual attempts at playing the victim with you. Nice try though...

No, not really. It's more weak sauce.

[azurnoir]

56. really in South Africa you say that's odd because there's this 'rumor'

that the commonly used language in South Africa is Afrikaans and rabbit isn't an Afrikaans word

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

58. Somebody is just looking for some sympathy.

Weak.

[King_David]

61. Commonly used ? Really ? RUBBISH!!

Maybe among 60% of the white people.
For 40% of white people English is their 1st language.

Among the majority black peoples there's about 11 official languages not Afrikaans.
Everyone's common language is English.

Oh boy you know as much about South Africa as you do about Israel.

[azurnoir]

63. sigh and the Black African population of Soth Africa speaks English as it's chosen language?

but you're right in that Afrikaans is not the most common language Zulu is

and you seem to divide language according to race I find that interesting indeed

[King_David]

64. That's what Apartheid was all about but you don't really know what's going on there or in Israel

English is the most commonly used language in South Africa.

[azurnoir]

65. Apartheid in South Africa is over has been for more than 20 years

but it's nice you know so much about it

[King_David]

67. And you think Afrikaans , the language of oppression

Is the most commonly used language today in South Africa?

It's English and you were wrong.

As I said you know as much about South Africa it seems as you do about Israel.

And yet your still going on about it...

LOL


Ha ha ha ha ha ha

[azurnoir]

68. I said what I had to say in comment #66

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=101234

[King_David]

69. Bye

I can't continue the absurd.

[azurnoir]

70. Okay

[azurnoir]

66. what seems to be rubbish is the rather shoddy attempt

to accuse another DUer of homophobia as seen by these 2 comments

Star Member King_David (11,564 posts)
53. I see you not only consider yourself a guardian of the Palestinian people

Or leader of another people's but a "heavy" in the IP group too?

That's too funny.

BTW in South African slang a "rabbit" is a derogatory term for a Gay Dude.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=101212

Star Member King_David (11,564 posts)
55. Yes but in pretty sure it is used for a reason

It's no coincidence

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=101215

[shira]

34. Unlike you, Livni and Lapid support a Jewish state & are vehemently against....

...a binational nightmare on the order of Lebanon.

They're against Netanyahu's demand that the PA recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

[azurnoir]

35. yes they support the Jewish state bill so much they caused the government to fold

but your either/or stance is belies a greater subtly

[shira]

38. Find me any evidence they support a binational solution. Anything. n/t

[azurnoir]

40. I never said they supported a bi-national state that's your statement

as I said it seems very either/or to me

[shira]

42. So what do u think they support? n/t

[azurnoir]

44. an Israeli state for Israeli's?

[shira]

45. That's code for your version of a binational state, correct? n/t

[azurnoir]

46. you seem very into codes why is that? I meant exactly what I said

do you consider a state where all of Israel's citizens were simply considered Israeli's to be bi-national?

[oberliner]

22. Yes it is and no it doesn't

Macedonia has a population where 65 percent of the people are Macedonian. Albanians make up 25 percent of the population.

[azurnoir]

25. Does it itself THE Macedonian State? Does it have laws that give ethnic Macedonians advantage over n

non-Macedonians? I mean should be able to provide linked answers as obviously you must have some extensive knowledge of Macedonian society

[oberliner]

27. The Macedonian state is called Macedonia, The Jewish state is called Israel

As you know from reading through all the UN transcripts at the time, the idea was to create an Arab State and a Jewish State. The Jewish State was named Israel. If it would help you, make replace Israel in your head with "Jewlandia" or something.

I would imagine that ethnic Albanians probably face some prejudices or disadvantages as a result of being in the minority, however, as is the case in Israel, I believe every citizen is equal under the law.

[azurnoir]

28. Are non-ethnic Macedonian citzens of Macedonian called Macedonians or Albanians?

[oberliner]

29. Probably both

They probably identify both with their ethnic background and the country of which they are citizens.

Much like Israeli Arabs or Palestinian Citizens of Israel.

[azurnoir]

31. probably maybe you would imagine

and in the US we have Italian Americans Chinese Americans you name it, however unlike Israel there is no ID card which identifies US citizens as anything but that no ethnic designation by which one can identify and there by know which laws apply to that group

[King_David]

50. I'm pretty sure his knowledge of Macedonia equals your knowledge on The Jewish state nt

[aranthus]

60. Calling Israel a Jewish state doesn't discount or devalue any of its citizens.

Your question is based on a lie. And the Greens are indeed asking for the end of Israel. The situation isn't the same as South Africa and you know it. Be honest. There already was a Black majority in South Africa, the whites really were the descendants of colonizers, and all the BDS movement was seeking was to allow the Blacks civil rights, which the government denied. BDS against Israel is about changing the entire demographic culture of the country from a Jewish state to an Arab state. Who gives a crap if they were to still call it Israel? Which they wouldn't. An Arab majority state would call itself Palestine, or else merge with Syria or Jordan or both to further dilute the Jewish population. BDS against Israel isn't about civil rights. It's about denying the national rights of the Jewish people in Israel, which is why BDS is antisemitic.

[azurnoir]

62. Here from the BDS website are the goals of BDS

The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;
Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

The BDS call was endorsed by over 170 Palestinian political parties, organizations, trade unions and movements. The signatories represent the refugees, Palestinians in the OPT, and Palestinian citizens of Israel.
- See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro#sthash.3YaoAWSm.dpuf

Now seeing that the current population of Israel 8.3 million with 1.7 of those being non-Jews it is plain that the Jewish population growing quickly in fact more so than the Arab so even if all of estimated 5 million Palestinian refugees were to move to Israel (highly unlikely) Jews would still be a majority

[aranthus]

71. The point is to send those 5 million and more.

As many Palestinians as they can find or make up. Always has been. Then there is the basic injustice of forcing Israel to accept as citizens a large number of people who don't have a right to return and who have tried to destroy the state, in violation of Israel's right of sovereignty. BDS is premised on violating the most foundational principles of international law. I don't much care about that, since I'm not the one relying on international law to support my position. But you are, and you should care.

[Little Tich]

10. Are you suffering from imaginary anti-Semitism too?

How is it anti-Semitic to give equal rights to all people who are native to the area to come and live there, and also providing them with equal democratic rights and status?

In a binational state, no rights would be taken away, they would just be extended to include non-Jews.

[shira]

11. So you're thinking of a binational disaster like Lebanon, Yugoslavia, Cyprus, Pakistan, Sri Lanka...

Disasters, all of them.

Israel/Palestine cannot work as a binational state like Canada, Belgium, and Switzerland.

It would take years of genuine PEACE between the 2 peoples to even have a serious discussion of that happening. As it is, practically no one in Palestine supports a binational secular, liberal democracy. Even fewer Israelis support it. It would have to be FORCED on the populations, which we know would result in war.

Pushing for what would certainly result in war is evidence of antisemitism.

[Little Tich]

19. I'm not a proponent of the binational solution, I was merely correcting someone

who thought that civil rights are anti-Semitic.

The issue is that some people see anti-Semitism in a very dysfunctional manner, and label people like Gunther Grass, Ali Abunimah,and Helen Thomas as anti-Semites, even though their only fault is criticism of Israel. The other part of this issue is that some people use a racist connotation for the “Jewish” state, as in “only for Jews”, while in other countries like Germany or Denmark, the ethnic designation is merely a description of who lives there.

You seem to have a strong tendency to make both kinds of mistakes quite often.

[oberliner]

23. You could not be more wrong

Helen Thomas has made anti-semitic comments, not about Israel but about American Jews (controlling Congress, The White House and Hollywood). She even asked the person interviewing her if they were Jewish (not if they were Israeli).

Ali Abunimah is off the charts. I cannot even begin to compile the vile and loathsome things he has said on this score (and am not interested in trying).

Gunter Grass was an actual Nazi.

[Little Tich]

30. We seem to disagree slightly. But what about the OP?

Do you think that their decision to boycott Israel is mostly grounded in their supposed anti-Semitism or their stated concerns for human rights and international law?

I personally think it's problematic to display strong negative opinions about a whole country, especially one where the majority is Jewish. It's something that has a potential to turn very ugly.

[shira]

26. Okay, so why do u not support a binational solution?

I agree with you. Civil rights are not antisemitic.

As to Helen Thomas...

After her ugly call for Jews to get the hell out of Palestine, she went even further...claiming that Jews run Hollywood, Congress, the White House, Wall Street, and US foreign policy.

You don't think that's antisemitic? Because it's classic, textbook antisemitism and everyone knows that.

Israel is not only for Jews but it is the state of the Jews, just as Greece is for Greeks, Italy for Italians, and France for the French people.

[Little Tich]

48. Sorry, I'm not interested...

But I liked your article from the Jewish Daily Forward.

[aranthus]

59. You're conflating national with civil rights.

Arabs already have civil rights in Israel. They just don't have the right to be the majority in Israel. If they want a majority Palestinian state then they can have one. But denying the Jews a state of their own by creating a bi-national or Arab majority state in its place denies the Jews their national right to self determination. That is per se antisemitic.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

72. Had Israel not ousted hundreds of thousands of Palestinians

and kept them from rightfull return, It in no way would be the apartheid state that it is today...

If hundreds of thousands of Jews were displaced today, and not being allowed to return to their homes and way of life, then whatever state doing so would be roundly condemned.

Right?

[shira]

13. It isn't legitimate criticism that would lead to peace anytime soon...

It's a recipe for disaster.

[azurnoir]

9. Tell us shira by what means is the ProIsrael community acquiring internal communications ?

from entities that they consider 'enemies of Israel'? we see this time and time again , just how is this being done?

[King_David]

16. That's a secret I'm afraid

Shira please don't disclose.


Shhhhh

[shira]

32. I'd tell you, but my fellow Elders of Zion have protocols, and giving away our secrets....

....is forbidden.

Next meeting is Thursday night. I'll pass along your concern.

[azurnoir]

33. Lol it strikes that the internal communications of oh so many 'anti-Israel' organizations

are so available couldn't be mostly bull pucky could it?

[shira]

36. What I'm allowed to tell you via the Zionist World Conspiracy is that....

...anti-Israel organizations like BDS are VERY secretive and don't even allow their events to be recorded in any way for public consumption.

[azurnoir]

39. Like I said I suspect a good deal of these revolations to be bull pucky

with a few real ones mixed in for appearances

[shira]

43. Not bull-pucky. We have our ways. n/t

[Little Tich]

47. The penny just dropped... The English Green Party is the Green Left.

That really explains a lot, for these people are always OTT in everything they do.

Here's another article that in some ways confirm the other article from the Jewish Forward in this thread.

In the Green Party antisemitism can be affirming
September 23, 2014 — Mira Vogel
Source: engageonline.wordpress.com

Over the past several years Green Party members have proposed a number of motions and initiatives tackling antisemitism, all of which have been defeated or deformed beyond usefulness by anti-Zionists. As The Guardian’s Hugh Muir observed back in 2010, Green officialdom has long opted to brush concerns about antisemitism under the carpet. Below are the most recent fruits of that – a bit of background, a brief timeline of recent events, and finally why you’d be wrong to blame me for bringing this to light.

For a long time the Green Party has been racked by bitter, polemical campaigning against Israel which has crashed the boundaries of simple anti-Zionism. It has included calling Green Party members who defend Israel Nazi infiltrators, alleging that a non-Israeli member with a Jewish name was an Israeli agent, failing to react appropriately to antisemitic comments in a discussion of a “Zionist lobby“, saying that Israeli academics were “not part of the civilised world”, circulating material by David Duke and quasi journalists concerned about Jewish influence in Parliament, promoting material by Gilad Atzmon, objecting to Jews taking certain official positions, affiliating to the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and Stop the War Coalition, and tending to treat concerns about antisemitism as politically motivated.

Read more: https://engageonline.wordpress.com/2014/09/23/in-the-green-party-antisemitism-can-be-affirming/

[azurnoir]

49. Thank you it's a revealing post

[Jefferson23]

52. That is not surprising, they have issues as other groups have as well. When you look

at the ADL, they are one group behind the case before the SCOTUS on the sovereignty of
Jerusalem despite that it is well understood to be under the discretion of the executive branch.
Lots of people with agendas and some are absolutely biased and or bigoted.

The case is Zivotofsky v Kerry