Since when did thinking Russia is doing something wrong equate to supporting Nazis and drone strikes

[Eko]

We can criticize Russia for their transgressions with Ukraine without thinking that the far right in Ukraine is a good thing. We can also do the same while understanding our own transgressions. Those of you using that argument are flat out wrong. WTH is going on here? Since when did it become wrong to call out a country for doing something wrong? Lately its been if you say something bad about Russia all of a sudden you get accused of all kinds of things here. Is this DU or RU cause I'm really not sure. Its ok to say America bad but not Russia.

[Eko]

1. And can we quit with using Russian media sites

that we all know are heavily influenced from the Russian govt? And yes our sites are influenced also but way less than theirs. We dont have journalists killed who are exposing our faults quite like they do.

[Duckhunter935]

3. "heavily influenced from the Russian govt"

you mean owned and run by the Russian government. I agree with your statement. The US does some screwed up shit but not near as bad as the Russian government and we should be able to criticize it. This also means we do not hate the Russian people like some like to say.

[Eko]

4. Even if the US govt was as bad,

we still get to point out Russia's problems. We as individuals don't control our government, we can criticize Russia as well as us and still be true to our ideals. A point lost on quite a few people here on DU. Nice to hear some sanity Duckhunter935. Thanks.

[Duckhunter935]

7. I can think of 6-8

on this board that are of the RT propaganda posters and believe America bad and Russia good Kiev all Nazi fascist posters around here.

That is the part that gets me is if you criticize the Russian government they say you hate the Russian people.

You present them with a question of how the pro-Russians or now the Russians in east Ukraine are being supplied and resupplied. 6 months ago they had very little equipment and were trying to get museum pieces up and running. Now they have the latest generations of tanks, some not ever exported by Russia, more grad systems and artillery than even Ukraine had. Where did that come from? I think they have now fired more artillery and rockets than Ukraine had and they never run out. Where id the resupply coming from. You must be an crazy not to think it is coming from Russia and the endless military exercises being held on the border that is not monitored.

[Eko]

9. Good point.

Ukraine is our ally, and yet we should be able to confront their shortcomings as well as ours and Russia's. There is a honest discussion to be had here it's just not possible with a lot of people here on DU. They would rather label you as supporting Nazis.

[Duckhunter935]

11. Yes Ukraine

has done many stupid things and should be called out. They should have worked much more with the people in the east and not tried to crazy things like the Russian language issue and limit money going back to those areas. They also need to stop the corruption and get a hold of the far right. But they are not all Nazi fascists like a very few here like to portray. The government offered many times to grant more power to the east and even grant amnesty to the rebels but Russia has supported them.

[DeSwiss]

5. There.

It's out.

[Eko]

6. What specifically

is out? Just don't understand exactly what you are saying.

[Duckhunter935]

8. calling out RT for what it is

and saying it should not be used as a source. I think it should have some kind of disclaimer that it is Russian state owned and has many times posted false information. It might have good reporting on some issues but it does not on Ukraine.

[Eko]

10. Thanks

for clarifying and I agree with you.

[Turbineguy]

2. We're dealing with two groups

trained by the Soviets in the art of propaganda.

[bemildred]

12. This is a group, the Foreign affairs Group, it's to discuss foreign affairs, a "protected" space.

It is not a propaganda outlet for anybody. Being interested in what the government of Russia or any other government has to say is entirely legitimate down here. Could we keep the whining about sources to GD or other appropriate venues? That is why I post here a lot, to avoid all that. Anything you don't like you can alert on. Thank you.

[Duckhunter935]

13. Russian state media

and how it portrays Russian foreign affairs in Ukraine fits that definition. Thank you so much for the guidance and the host of the group should make that call, from what I see you are not one but just a DU member like us.

Thank you so much for your concern

The SOP

Discuss foreign affairs and international relations.

It does not state that this is limited or protected like you say.

[bemildred]

14. That's fine, as long as we get to read and post what they write.

And as long as the other guys, the ones you don't like, get to have their say too.

Edit: all groups are protected. That's how they are not forums.

[Duckhunter935]

17. As long as all viewpoints are heard, I agree

I think you might be off on groups being protected. It does not say anything like that here except they may serve as safe havens and that should be in the group SOP. It is not in this groups SOP.

SOP
Discuss foreign affairs and international relations.

What is the difference between a forum and a group?

Forums:

Forums are created by the DU Administrators only.
Forums are general interest, and permit a broad range of viewpoints. Disagreement is the norm in forums.
Members may not subscribe to forums.
Members may be blocked from a forum by the DU Administrators, but not by the forum hosts.
Blocked members may not post in a forum -- but they are able to alert abuse in that forum. Only members who have posted in a particular forum may be blocked from that forum.

Groups:

Groups can be created by either the DU Administrators, or by regular DU members.
Groups sometimes serve as safe havens for members who share similar viewpoints or interests.
Members may subscribe to groups, and have them listed on their "My Subscriptions" page.
Members may be blocked from a group by its hosts, or by the DU Administrators if no hosts are assigned.
Blocked members may not post in a group or subscribe to that group -- but they are able to alert abuse in that group. Only members who have posted in a particular group may be blocked from that group.

I think as long it is on topic and the host allows it, more speech is better. This is my last post on this as it has now become a distraction from the original topic.

[bemildred]

18. I just want to keep the infantile whining about sources out of here.

As much as possible.

Eko already gets that, I think, since he says something similar, but I get a little defensive about it. You will note: a.) I did not address you, and b.) Eko seemed to get me fine.

[Eko]

15. Sorry about that,

seemed the best category to use. GD would have been better in retrospect. Thanks.

[bemildred]

16. No sweat, I agree with most of what you say. Edit: stick around. nt