Amazing video of Jewish leaders meeting with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in NYC

[99th_Monkey]

Just this last Wednesday. Who knew?

The person who posted this on FB said it was "banned" in the
USA, so I'm not sure how long it will remain on YouTube, so
have a look-see while you can. It's only about 6-7 minutes long,
but is rather mind-blowing.

&feature=share

[bemildred]

1. Happens every time. Does not mean much.

http://www.nkusa.org/

[99th_Monkey]

2. Well, it means SOMEthing

As to WHAT it means, is up for discussion; but it does not strike
me as something to just ignore, or go "ho hum" about.

[Cary]

3. What do you know about "World Torah Jewry?"

Do you realize that you're wading in Jeff Rense type conspiracy waters here? Does that matter to you?

[99th_Monkey]

4. Not so much

re: "World Torah Jewry". Maybe I'll google it and educate
myself on that one.

Rightly or wrongly, I experienced the video to be a stunning
example of international good-will and truth-telling by the
Rabbi who made distinction between Judaism and Zionism.

[bemildred]

5. I posted a link to their site. nt

[Cary]

11. Actually I don't know this group either but I immediately spotted what was going on.

With this group of ultra-Orthodox, isn't it about their theology? They believe that you can't have a restoration of Jerusalem until the Messiah comes? Also, Israel is a secular state so they oppose it for that reason too?

The fact that they would gush over Ahmadinejad is a bit nauseating.

[bemildred]

14. They are a small sect of the Ultra-orthodox, not at all a new thing.

None of this is new.

They come up a lot (relatively speaking) because they freak out the Zionists, so pro-Palestinians post about them from time to time. And of course, there are always some knee-jerk responses from the committed when they do.

Why NK are buddies with Ahm-an-idjit seems obvious to me.

[Cary]

16. Thanks.

Yes, it is obvious.

What is less obvious to me is why 99th Monkey here would be so eager to fall in with this propaganda.

[bemildred]

18. New toys are always fascinating.

Anti-zionist Jews are sort of like Gay Republicans. It seems odd. Or so people assume.

However, if you look around, there are quite a few, but most of those tend to be on the left and/or less religious.

I am reminded of what Willy Nelson said about the election of Barack Obama in 2008: It's sort of like seeing a turtle on top of a fencepost, you are not surprised to see the turtle so much as dumbfounded about how it got up there. That is sort of how people first react to the notion of anti-Zionist Jews.

I thought they were "interesting" once too, but not for long.

I suggest you avoid calling other posters out, it will only get you in trouble. Let Mr./Ms Monkey find his or her own way.

[Cary]

20. I didn't call him out.

I told him about Zionist conspiracy theorists and Jeff Rense.

Is that verbotten? If so, that's wrong.

[bemildred]

22. No, you are OK so far.

But when you start thinking about the poster rather than the subect matter, things tend to run off the rails, so generally I avoid proper names or getting too concerned about particular posters. Just a word to the wise. People will pick fights.

Some people like to argue and don't mind a hide now and then. If that's the case with you, you should ignore my advice. I used to participate in lots of flame wars, now I rarely do.

Edit: you need to keep in mind the jury system too, the boundaries are fuzzy and a jury can bite you in the ass if you test them..

[Cary]

24. ROTFLMAO

I am a veteran of the wars here. I created threads that had to have record views and post counts.

I am trying not to do that and I appreciate your advice Bemildred, as well as your intellect. I will not ignore you or your advice.

[bemildred]

26. Copacetic.

[leveymg]

31. Until '48, anti-Zionist Jews were strong if not dominant within the Jewish Diaspora

There is the Ultra-orthodox objection based in theology, as you captured, and then there's the progressive secular perspective that has a separate list of issues with some forms of political Zionism.

Zionists have long been viewed slightly suspiciously as zealots by secularized Jews who became successfully assimilated in a number of countries in the 19th and early 20th centuries. They still are taken as threatening and extreme, in their current iteration as Likudists and extreme Right-wingers, unwilling to constructively negotiate territorial issues or get along with some neighbors.

Ahmadinejad is seen by many as the flip side of the same extremist coin.

[bemildred]

34. Yes, I'm aware of the history (of the zionist project) back to 1850 or so.

Neither side is going to lay it all out for you, so you have to go find it, but it's not hard to find. The period around WWI is very interesting, has the real roots of the current mess, prior to that it was more nebulous, talk of other places, nobody with power that interested. Weizmann had a huge impact, looking back.

The polarization you mention is central to my interest, since I figure it will stay a mess while it stays polarized, and the more polarized it gets, the messier it's going to get too.

There are the "Jews == Israel" people, the "Israel is a negative-descriptor-of-choice" people, and the vast majority of diaspora Jews who have abstract good feelings about Israel, give money, maybe visit, but don't really spend much time on it.

And then there is the quite large portion of the human race that sees the whole thing as an annoyance about which they know little and care less.

[Cary]

6. You won't get the education from just Googling it.

As I said, you are wading here in Jeff Rense "Zionist" conspiracy theorist waters. There is an extra heavy dose of anti-Semitism involved with this, to the point of reviving the old libels including The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

You will notice that those people are ultra Orthodox Jews. I don't believe they are Zionist conspiracy theorists but they have their own agenda. It may be more benign than Jeff Rense but the overlap is troubling. And these people are fundamentalists in the strictest sense of the word.

[99th_Monkey]

7. Well, I happen to agree with these fundy Jews

at least on one thing, that the Zionist nation isn't operating according to
the basic spiritual principles of Judaism .. you know, peace, love, Shalom,
and all that good stuff. See Palestine.

As for Jeff Rense, I could care less about who he is or what he thinks; I
simply wanted to share this video because it was such a striking contrast
from all the mutual hatred generally portrayed in the media between
Iran and Jews in general.

[Cary]

8. You can agree or disagree with whatever you wish. That isn't the point.

I am telling you that with these people you are wading into conspiracy theorist waters. You are not in up to your eyeballs, but you are wading.

That would be enough to turn me off, personally. But that isn't the issue. You are representing this as something "remarkable". It isn't what you think it is and if I found myself doing what you are doing here I would be troubled by it.

I am suggesting to you, nicely, that you might want to figure this out. That is, if you don't want to be a zionist conspiracy theorist.

[Cary]

9. Oh, and it is a huge leap to refer to this sect as "Jewish leaders."

Actually that is a gross misrepresentation.

[99th_Monkey]

10. Thanks for the "friendly" advice

it is duly noted.

[Cary]

12. You edited since my response

These Jews do not oppose Israel because of the Palestinians. That has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Whether you care about Jeff Rense or not, you proffer his propaganda.

[99th_Monkey]

13. Me thinks you have an ax to grind

but you are taking it out on the wrong person.

I posted a freaking video I found interesting.

I agree with the distinction between Zionism
and Judaism.

I passionately long for peace in the ME.

That's about it.

Anything more you try to make of my posts
is purely in your own imagination.

[Cary]

15. Again, I explained to you only the facts.

I don't know what you mean by "the distinction between Zionism and Judaism." What I do know is that if you are a Zionist conspiracy theorist then you are anti-Semitic.

[99th_Monkey]

17. Name-calling me a "Zionist conspiracy theorist" is both laughable & offensive

especially since I've already told you numerous times why I posted
the video, and what my beliefs and hopes are (and what they aren't)
regarding the ME, esp. relations between Israel, Iran and Palestine.

And insinuating that I am "anti-Semitic" is not cool, because it could
not be further from the truth.

Sorry, but it ain't me babe. Peace out brother.

[Cary]

19. I did no such thing. Look up the word "If"

I'm sure you reported and perhaps my post will be hidden but I did not insinuate. I have no idea whether you are anti-Semitic but I have no idea whether you aren't.

All I know is that you're channeling some very anti-Semitic sources.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

28. Can you think of any nation

that lives up to either it's religion or it's defining principles?

[99th_Monkey]

29. Good point.

But I don't see that as a reason to jump on the current
Israel-led "Bomb Bomb Iran" bandwagon either, which
energetically seems like what some DUers are wanting.

To me, the only solution to the Israel/Palestinian mess
is some variation of the "two-state solution", both sovereign,
both respecting the others borders and such.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

35. I don't find many DUers

advocating for the bombing of Iran, that is most usually a neo-con position.

While I appreciate that you would like peace in the Middle East, perhaps you should give some thought as to why we don't have it.

This whole mess is the creation of the "oh so very Christian" west, which did damned little to stop Hitler before he killed 6 million Jews and little to nothing to give them refuge before the war broke out and made that impossible. Why anyone thought the people of Palestine would be willing to give up their homes or sovereignty to the new nation of Israel has always baffled me.

As to respecting borders...which borders, those set in 1948, 1967, 1980 or the flexible border with the West Bank which has Israeli settlers taking over Palestinian territory as regularly as the sun rises? Netanyahu's real problem with Obama is not Iran, that's just his excuse...his real problem is that Obama has called for a pull back to the 1967 borders.

The Jews you were so impressed with in the video you posted have their own agenda, the only respectable part of which is their desire to protect the few Jews remaining in Iran.

In 1940 the state of Nevada had a population of about 110,000 people....and 110,567 square miles of land....In 1930 there were 91,058 people living on that 110,567 square miles....If we were going to settle the surviving Jews in a desert, why not Nevada? Israel is only 8,367 square miles after all.

I'm not saying that's what we could have done, but perhaps what we should have done.

[bemildred]

36. +1.

In fairness to "the West" it can be said that the residents of the Middle East have always had their own issues, in fact they taught us quite a lot about having issues, even before we decided to "help" them.

On the other hand, we really did botch it, as "masters of the Universe" usually do.

If you read the old stuff (Sykes-Picot, trust docs, etc.) there is always boilerplate about protecting the locals, etc., but behind that is the pre-WWII mindset that only Yurpeans really matter, which does much to account for the current mess.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

39. Exactly...

The western nations carved up the land into "nations" installed their favored governments and expected the locals to just 'live with it' We are still paying the price for helping the Brits overthrow the democratically elected president of Iran in 1959 and if we are not off oil by the time the Saudis get rid of the 'royal' family we installed and uphold, heaven help us.

[99th_Monkey]

41. I appreciate your thoughts on the matter

That's a really nice summary run-down, and an interesting suggestion,
vis-a-vis Nevada.

If I knew the "why" of it, I'd be winner of the World Peace Prize, or whatever
it's called ... I never claimed to have any "solution" to it all, and I had no idea
who those Jewish people were, what sect, etc. but they were obviously wanting
to distinguish themselves from the Israeli atrocities against Palestinians. That
in a nutshell is what got my attention, because I often fear Israel is over
playing their hand, by the way they treat the Palestinians.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

42. Nobel Peace Prize...

As to Israeli atrocities...don't be too hard on the Israelis, the Palestinians refuse to police themselves and do nothing to stop the terrorism carried out in their name.

As a counterpoint, look at what the people of Libya did after terrorists killed our ambassador and 3 other embassy employees. Hundreds took to the streets with signs of apology and grief over the loss of Ambassador Stevens. Days later thousands attacked the headquarters of numerous militias and demanded that the government remove the armaments from these militias.... Ordinary citizens can be very effective.

Israel copies the United States. We lose 2,740 US citizens in the attacks of 9/11 and we have killed unknown thousands of Iraqis, Pakistanis and Afghans...lowest estimate of Iraqi losses is 108,000.

I like animals much more than I like people.

[Schema Thing]

21. It reminds me of when the leader of the Jehovah's Witnesses sucked up to Hitler

[99th_Monkey]

23. It's definitely been interesting seeing the responses

to the video. Yours included.

I'm not so much "anti-Zionist", but I want Israel and it's citizens
to be at peace with their neighbors, including Palestine and Iran.

And I have nothing but praise and support for Jews and citizens of Israel
who are working for a more peaceful Middle East; and who are not
afraid to speak out against Israels abysmal treatment of Palestinians.

[Cary]

25. Yes, but Ahmadinejad?

Really?

[99th_Monkey]

30. No, not really.

I'm no fan of his, anyway, he's soon retiring I heard, so I'm
not wasting energy hating on him. I just say good riddance.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/06/17/221137.html

[Sekhmets Daughter]

27. Fundamentalists

of every religion refuse to accept the reality of modern life...

[99th_Monkey]

32. Yah. Sometimes I wish

that ALL Fundies whatever their brand, be forced to live together
on a continent of their very own Hell-in-the-making. And just
let everyone else live in peace and prosperity.

[Cary]

33. I call them recidivists. n/t

[tama]

37. Amish

are sometimes called real fundamentalists, in distinction to faux evangelical etc. "fundamentalists" who are more interested in money and power tripping than living according to fundamentals of their religion.

And Amish are refusing to accept the "reality" of modernism in very fundamental way. And from the perspective cultural evolutionary adaptation and population dynamics, Amish are thriving.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

38. In a very narrow world

[tama]

40. ?

[Sekhmets Daughter]

43. Thriving

In a very narrow sense in a very narrow world...devoid of technology. The first Amish arrived here in 1730 and it is expected there will be 1 million Amish living here by 2050. To say they are "thriving" without comparing them to any other immigrant groups misses the point...or perhaps makes it.

[tama]

44. Ah

English is not my native tongue and perhaps some other word would be more suitable, but speaking in the scientific context of evolutionary biology and population dynamics, - which I would not call "narrow" - and remembering the nature of exponential growth, if current trend continues the Amish fundamentalist model of evolutionary adaptation will be the majority of US population in relatively short time period.

The meek shall inherit the Earth?