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OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:38 PM Jul 2015

James Hansen: To Mitigate Climate Change, Nuclear Energy Should Be Included

http://www.science20.com/news_articles/james_hansen_to_mitigate_climate_change_nuclear_energy_should_be_included-154923
[font face=Serif][font size=5]James Hansen: To Mitigate Climate Change, Nuclear Energy Should Be Included[/font]

By News Staff | April 18th 2015 09:33 AM

[font size=3] James Hansen, a former head of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies who was one of the first scientists to raise concerns about global climate change, spoke at MIT Tuesday in the biennial David J. Rose Lecture, sponsored by the Department of Nuclear Science and Engineering (NSE).

...

“We need to be realistic in looking at the available energy sources,” he said, pointing out that solar and wind energy still represent only about 3 percent of global energy supply. “If we could decarbonize electricity, then we could solve the problem. "

Even liquid fuels for transportation can be manufactured using alternative sources of electricity. Sweden, he noted, has already achieved essentially carbon-free electricity, thanks to a combination of nuclear power and abundant hydropower; France is nearing this goal, thanks mostly to its extensive use of nuclear power. Both countries, he said, produced most of their nuclear infrastructure within a decade, “so that has been the fastest way to decarbonize that has been demonstrated so far.”

“I think you need to be open-minded. We should be looking at all the carbon-free energy sources, and figuring out what their contribution should be — and frankly, the market should be helping us do it. … We should have a carbon-free energy portfolio, and let the market find what is the least expensive way. We should be doing (research and development) on all the good candidates, and certainly nuclear is one of them.” [/font][/font]


https://plus.google.com/104173268819779064135/posts/Vs6Csiv1xYr
[font face=Serif][font size=3]...

We understand that today's nuclear plants are far from perfect. Fortunately, passive safety systems and other advances can make new plants much safer. And modern nuclear technology can reduce proliferation risks and solve the waste disposal problem by burning current waste and using fuel more efficiently. Innovation and economies of scale can make new power plants even cheaper than existing plants. Regardless of these advantages, nuclear needs to be encouraged based on its societal benefits.

Quantitative analyses show that the risks associated with the expanded use of nuclear energy are orders of magnitude smaller than the risks associated with fossil fuels. No energy system is without downsides. We ask only that energy system decisions be based on facts, and not on emotions and biases that do not apply to 21st century nuclear technology.

While there will be no single technological silver bullet, the time has come for those who take the threat of global warming seriously to embrace the development and deployment of safer nuclear power systems as one among several technologies that will be essential to any credible effort to develop an energy system that does not rely on using the atmosphere as a waste dump.

With the planet warming and carbon dioxide emissions rising faster than ever, we cannot afford to turn away from any technology that has the potential to displace a large fraction of our carbon emissions. Much has changed since the 1970s. The time has come for a fresh approach to nuclear power in the 21st century.

...[/font][/font]
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James Hansen: To Mitigate Climate Change, Nuclear Energy Should Be Included (Original Post) OKIsItJustMe Jul 2015 OP
"solar and wind energy still represent only about 3 percent of global energy supply" kristopher Jul 2015 #1
Hansen is wrong about nuclear power, but he's right about renewables GliderGuider Jul 2015 #2
I'll trust IRENA's numbers, thank you anyway. kristopher Jul 2015 #3
I care about reducing CO2. GliderGuider Jul 2015 #6
No you don't kristopher Jul 2015 #7
Oh well. GliderGuider Jul 2015 #8
BTW, does no one ever learn, grow or change their views in your world? GliderGuider Jul 2015 #11
Sure, but you haven't kristopher Jul 2015 #12
Okey-dokey. GliderGuider Jul 2015 #13
IRENA, naturally, is totally unbiased. OKIsItJustMe Jul 2015 #9
I understand Hansens message. kristopher Jul 2015 #10
France's IRSN agency recently debunked some of the nuclear hype Hansen fell for bananas Jul 2015 #4
I believe this may be the reactor in question OKIsItJustMe Jul 2015 #5
along with a serving of Authoritarian Repression and War cprise Jul 2015 #14

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
1. "solar and wind energy still represent only about 3 percent of global energy supply"
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:51 AM
Jul 2015

I have a great deal of respect for Hansen but it has been obvious to me for a while that he isn't nearly as well versed on the solution for climate change as he is on the problem. This piece provides fairly clear evidence supporting that observation.

He complains about renewables providing only 3 percent of the global energy supply and says that shows we need to invest more in nuclear. Apparently he isn't aware that after 50+ years of STRONG support for deploying nuclear, it is only providing less than 3% of global energy.



This is somewhat dated. The nuclear portion has probably declined slightly while the wind and solar has increased substantially.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
2. Hansen is wrong about nuclear power, but he's right about renewables
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 06:57 AM
Jul 2015

Last edited Thu Jul 30, 2015, 07:35 AM - Edit history (3)



However, both of you are wrong to believe that marginal tinkering with the mix of the world's ever-growing energy consumption is going to fix even the climate problem, let alone the overarching predicament posed by human overgrowth.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
3. I'll trust IRENA's numbers, thank you anyway.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 10:36 AM
Jul 2015

They are set to final energy consumption, which is the appropriate metric for looking at changing the energy system. It doesn't matter what the thermal potential input of fossil and nuclear fuels are, the focus is on energy consumed. Using primary energy is an open invitation to distortion via statistics - which is why I've always assumed you prefer to use it.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
6. I care about reducing CO2.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 01:55 PM
Jul 2015

"Changing the energy system" hasn't accomplished that, and probably can't - marginal energy changes ("Wind beats nucular, yay!&quot all seem to occur outside the realm of FF use, which is where the CO2 comes from. IMO, the difference between IRENA's numbers and those given by BP are immaterial. The differences are a couple of orders of magnitude below the consumption rate of of fossil fuels, which is where the danger is coming from.

When I say you're both wrong, I mean you're both focusing on the wrong issue if the final goal is to eliminate CO2 emissions. If we actually wanted to "solve" the carbon problem, we would attack it at source. We're not doing that, so I can only assume that nobody in power believes that atmospheric carbon is really an existential threat. I certainly don't think you believe that, based on your behaviour.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
7. No you don't
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 02:16 PM
Jul 2015

You stake out positions so unrealistic that they are meaningless to carbon reduction. The only functional aspect of your writing is an obvious and overt attempt to undermine confidence in renewable energy. To that end you are eternal fountain of misinformation.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
11. BTW, does no one ever learn, grow or change their views in your world?
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:34 PM
Jul 2015

They do in mine, and I usually respect them for it.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
9. IRENA, naturally, is totally unbiased.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:09 PM
Jul 2015

Hansen's message is not that renewables are useless, and that nuclear power is the be-all and end-all.

His message is that we need to cut carbon emissions, immediately, and that, at this time, the risk from not using nuclear power is greater than the risk from using it.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
10. I understand Hansens message.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:33 PM
Jul 2015

However, his efforts are counter-productive to his goal - preserving or building new nuclear does nothing long term except prop up the fossil fuel centralized generation economic model.

It is that model that has to crumble if we want rapid change.

Secondarily there is the issue of misallocation of investment capital relative to the stated goal. History has shown definitively that it is a matter of when, not if, the next major nuclear accident occurs. Two "ifs" are relevant - If there is substantial investment in nuclear as Hansen is calling for and If the accident this time hits a major metropolitan area, then the same blowback that shut down Japan's fleet will probably be at work affecting the entire global fleet.

It is a risky proposition when the stakes are as high as they are, capital is as limited as it is, and a risk-free, cleaner, less expensive option that deploys far more quickly than nuclear is available.

Hansen is simply wrong on this topic.

Brazil Arrests Nuclear Chief in Widening of Graft Case
By SIMON ROMEROJULY 28, 2015

RIO DE JANEIRO — The sweeping corruption scandal shaking Brazil’s establishment intensified on Tuesday after the police arrested the mastermind of the military’s secret nuclear program during the 1970s and ’80s.

With the arrest of that figure, Othon Luiz Pinheiro da Silva, a retired navy admiral, what started as a bribery inquiry at the national oil company, Petrobras, seems to have taken on a life of its own, with one prominent figure after another becoming ensnared in accusations of a broad web of graft involving state-controlled enterprises and some of the country’s most powerful private companies.

Prosecutors said Mr. Pinheiro da Silva, 76, took more than $1.3 million in bribes as chief executive of Eletronuclear, a public company that operates two nuclear power plants. The bribes, which the prosecutors said were paid from 2009 to 2014, were related to contracts with construction companies building a third plant, Angra 3, near Rio de Janeiro.

During the military dictatorship, which lasted from 1964 to 1985, Mr. Pinheiro da Silva, a nuclear engineer educated at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, oversaw a clandestine operation to build reactors for submarines.

“Corruption in Brazil is endemic...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/world/americas/brazil-arrests-nuclear-chief-in-widening-of-graft-case.html?_r=0

bananas

(27,509 posts)
4. France's IRSN agency recently debunked some of the nuclear hype Hansen fell for
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:45 PM
Jul 2015

Your OP quotes Hansen:

We understand that today's nuclear plants are far from perfect. Fortunately, passive safety systems and other advances can make new plants much safer. And modern nuclear technology can reduce proliferation risks and solve the waste disposal problem by burning current waste and using fuel more efficiently. Innovation and economies of scale can make new power plants even cheaper than existing plants. Regardless of these advantages, nuclear needs to be encouraged based on its societal benefits.


Three months ago, IRSN released a report throwing cold water on some of this hype:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/112789018

Next-generation nuclear reactors may not be safer: French watchdog
PARIS | By Geert De Clercq
Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:17pm EDT

The next generation of nuclear reactors being developed in countries such as France, Russia, China and Japan may not be safer than those being built today, French nuclear safety watchdog IRSN said on Monday.

In a study of six future reactor designs being worked on by the U.S.-led "Generation IV International Forum", the IRSN said only the sodium-cooled fast reactor (SFR) model was far enough along in the development process to envisage building a prototype during the first half of this century.

But it could not say whether it would be safer than models currently being built for service.

"While it seems possible for SFR technology to guarantee a safety level at least equivalent to that targeted by generation III pressurised-water reactors, IRSN is unable to determine whether it could significantly exceed this level," it said.

<snip>

The agency also questioned the degree to which the reactor would be able to burn up "actinides", among the most dangerous by-products of nuclear fission.

<snip>

cprise

(8,445 posts)
14. along with a serving of Authoritarian Repression and War
Fri Jul 31, 2015, 09:08 AM
Jul 2015

The fresh face of nuclear power looks pretty much like the old one.

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