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LouisvilleDem

(303 posts)
Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:12 AM Oct 2014

Good news on Climate Change front

Several peer reviewed papers say we probably have more time to act on climate change than was originally thought. All of the urgency to lower CO2 emissions stem from computer model projections that say the 2C target might be exceeded as soon as 2040 if economic and population growth continue as they have. However, observed temperature changes over the last 15-20 years now make that prediction seem extremely unlikely. Moreover, new evidence suggests that those climate models are using climate sensitivity figures that are twice the actual figure, meaning we have more time than we originally thought to avoid a 2 degree increase in global temperatures.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-014-2342-y#page-1

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/260740743_Bayesian_estimation_of_climate_sensitivity_based_on_a_simple_climate_model_fitted_to_observations_of_hemispheric_temperatures_and_global_ocean_heat_content

http://www.iac.ethz.ch/people/knuttir/papers/otto13nat.pdf

http://www.earth-syst-dynam.net/5/139/2014/esd-5-139-2014.html

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Good news on Climate Change front (Original Post) LouisvilleDem Oct 2014 OP
Good times indeed - the chocolate ration has been increased also. nt edgineered Oct 2014 #1
Double plus good. nt Cheap_Trick Oct 2014 #2
"All of the urgency?" caraher Oct 2014 #3
Predictions may be off, but what is happening right now? RiverLover Oct 2014 #4
Yes, polar ice cap melt is concerning LouisvilleDem Oct 2014 #7
Can you provide them? truebrit71 Oct 2014 #10
Here you go LouisvilleDem Oct 2014 #12
GLOBAL CO2 emissions are pretty much all that matter NickB79 Oct 2014 #14
"Sorry that your husband is dying but at least your food bills will go down soon!" Nihil Oct 2014 #18
0.1%-0.15% is significant? Viking12 Oct 2014 #15
Reading comprehension... LouisvilleDem Oct 2014 #17
0.1%-0.15% is significant? Viking12 Oct 2014 #19
Read my post #12 again LouisvilleDem Oct 2014 #20
So WTF are you talking about then? Viking12 Oct 2014 #22
Wow. That is good news Viking12 Oct 2014 #5
Feel free to provide peer reviewed counter examples LouisvilleDem Oct 2014 #6
because you prefer to have your denial spoon fed by the Wall Street Journal? Viking12 Oct 2014 #8
Clueless LouisvilleDem Oct 2014 #21
Here are a few from 2014 caraher Oct 2014 #9
Thanks LouisvilleDem Oct 2014 #13
Judith Curry is Back Advocating Climate Inaction in the Wall Street Journal OKIsItJustMe Oct 2014 #11
And 0.8C of warming so far has already put us on the edge NickB79 Oct 2014 #16

caraher

(6,278 posts)
3. "All of the urgency?"
Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:27 AM
Oct 2014

I think not. The 2C target is pretty arbitrary, nobody really knows the impacts of lesser changes, even half the rate of increase promises risk of enormous problems.

I would agree that knowing more about the actual rate of increase is important in making policy decisions. And I would agree that lower-than-previously-believed climate sensitivity would indeed be good news.

But all these estimates have huge uncertainties. RealClimate has two commentaries on some of the research you present. Michael Mann's remarks conclude

However, it remains true that we do not have a precise number for the ECS (equilibrium climate sensitivity). Sherwood et al’s results give weight to higher values than some other recent estimates based on transient estimates (e.g. Otto et al. (2013)), but it should be kept in mind that there is a great asymmetry in risk between the high and low end estimates. Uncertainty cuts both ways and is not our friend. If the climate indeed turns out to have the higher-end climate sensitivity suggested by here, the impacts of unmitigated climate change are likely to be considerably greater than suggested by current best estimates.


In a similar vein, Oxford's Richard Millar concludes his commentary on the Lewis and Curry paper by pointing out

While of some scientific interest, the impact for real-world mitigation policy of the range of conceivable values for the TCR (transient climate response) is small (see also this discussion in Sci. Am.). For targets like the 2 K guide-rail, a TCR on the lower end of the Lewis and Curry and IPCC ranges might just be the difference between a achievable rate of emissions reduction and an impossible one…


It would appear that we're working with the boundary between "doomers are right" and "we can maybe just manage this problem with urgent action," rather than the boundary between the latter and taking our sweet time to figure out what to do...

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
4. Predictions may be off, but what is happening right now?
Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:34 AM
Oct 2014
New satellite maps show polar ice caps melting at 'unprecedented rate'
Monday 1 September 2014 07.34 EDT

Scientists reveal Greenland and Antarctica losing 500 cubic kms of ice annually, reports Climate News Network

"German researchers have established the height of the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps with greater precision than ever before. The new maps they have produced show that the ice is melting at an unprecedented rate.

...Overall, the southern continent ? 98% of which is covered with ice and snow ? is losing 125 cubic km a year. These are the highest rates observed since researchers started making satellite observations 20 years ago."

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/01/new-satellite-maps-show-polar-ice-caps-melting-at-unprecedented-rate

Also, must see~~

http://www.upworthy.com/they-took-a-camera-to-a-remote-area-in-greenland-and-what-they-recorded-is-simply-terrifying?c=upw1

LouisvilleDem

(303 posts)
7. Yes, polar ice cap melt is concerning
Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:19 PM
Oct 2014

Ironically, studies have shown that an open northwest passage for shipping will actually reduce CO2 emissions significantly.

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
14. GLOBAL CO2 emissions are pretty much all that matter
Sun Oct 12, 2014, 11:42 AM
Oct 2014

Your post about reducing CO2 via the Northwest Passage is like telling a chemotherapy patient "Hey, but think of all the money you'll save on haircuts and mousse now that all your hair fell out!"

Viking12

(6,012 posts)
15. 0.1%-0.15% is significant?
Sun Oct 12, 2014, 05:55 PM
Oct 2014

According to your source, "Using a trans-polar route may reduce global CO2 emissions from ships by roughly 0.1 % in 2030 and 0.15 % in 2030 and 2050, respectively" (p.19).


and...what about this? "Based on certain assumptions about hydrocarbon reserves in the Arctic and their development and an oil price of $80/boe, CO2 emissions from shipping related to oil and gas production (tankers and service vessels) in the Arctic was estimated to be 40 % higher than the CO2 emissions from Arctic transit traffic in 2030 and about twice that from transit traffic in 2050" (p.19).

In other words, the tiny reduction in emissions via shipping will be overwhelmed by the emissions from increased carbon production in the Arctic.

Fail.

Viking12

(6,012 posts)
22. So WTF are you talking about then?
Wed Oct 29, 2014, 05:58 PM
Oct 2014

If, as you now admit, the arctic route won't reduce shipping emissions significantly, what exactly are you referring to when you say it will significantly reduce emissions?

LouisvilleDem

(303 posts)
6. Feel free to provide peer reviewed counter examples
Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:18 PM
Oct 2014

And no, a link to a Google Scholar search result does not count. I believe it would be interesting to find out just how many papers in the last four years place climate sensitivity below the 2.5 C figure that climate models tend to use.

Viking12

(6,012 posts)
8. because you prefer to have your denial spoon fed by the Wall Street Journal?
Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:16 PM
Oct 2014

Why isn't the list of papers provided via google scholar useful? Because the majority of them contradict your pollyanish view?

LouisvilleDem

(303 posts)
21. Clueless
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 02:56 AM
Oct 2014
Why isn't the list of papers provided via google scholar useful?

Your link was to the results of a Google Scholar search on the words "climate sensitivity". It is not useful because it simply returns a list of any papers published with the words "climate sensitivity" in it, regardless of when it was published, or whether it supports your view or mine. In sum, it proves absolutely nothing.

caraher

(6,278 posts)
9. Here are a few from 2014
Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:24 PM
Oct 2014

It's worth remembering that peer-reviewed literature is never the last word, with results that are mostly not obviously wrong. The current literature in any field of active research ought to contain some contradictions and disagreements. But since you asked for different views from the peer-reviewed literature, here are a few, followed by the end of a paper in preparation by an economist asking what the policy conclusion should be based on recent reassessments of climate sensitivity (hint: it's not using papers suggesting the low end of the range and concluding we need not take swift action)

A Nature abstract

Equilibrium climate sensitivity refers to the ultimate change in global mean temperature in response to a change in external forcing. Despite decades of research attempting to narrow uncertainties, equilibrium climate sensitivity estimates from climate models still span roughly 1.5 to 5 degrees Celsius for a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration, precluding accurate projections of future climate. The spread arises largely from differences in the feedback from low clouds, for reasons not yet understood. Here we show that differences in the simulated strength of convective mixing between the lower and middle tropical troposphere explain about half of the variance in climate sensitivity estimated by 43 climate models. The apparent mechanism is that such mixing dehydrates the low-cloud layer at a rate that increases as the climate warms, and this rate of increase depends on the initial mixing strength, linking the mixing to cloud feedback. The mixing inferred from observations appears to be sufficiently strong to imply a climate sensitivity of more than 3 degrees for a doubling of carbon dioxide. This is significantly higher than the currently accepted lower bound of 1.5 degrees, thereby constraining model projections towards relatively severe future warming.


Despite important advances in other areas of climate science, we have discovered new uncertainties that make us even less confident about the range of equilibrium climate sensitivity than we were before the publication of the latest IPCC report. Given the increasing marginal costs of global warming, greater uncertainty, other factors equal, has an unambiguous implication for policy. It raises the return for taking action to curb greenhouse emissions.


Abstract of Nature: Climate Change paper concluding that the lowest end of sensitivity estimates is unlikely:


Understanding climate sensitivity is critical to projecting climate change in response to a given forcing scenario. Recent analyses1, 2, 3 have suggested that transient climate sensitivity is at the low end of the present model range taking into account the reduced warming rates during the past 10–15 years during which forcing has increased markedly4. In contrast, comparisons of modelled feedback processes with observations indicate that the most realistic models have higher sensitivities5, 6. Here I analyse results from recent climate modelling intercomparison projects to demonstrate that transient climate sensitivity to historical aerosols and ozone is substantially greater than the transient climate sensitivity to CO2. This enhanced sensitivity is primarily caused by more of the forcing being located at Northern Hemisphere middle to high latitudes where it triggers more rapid land responses and stronger feedbacks. I find that accounting for this enhancement largely reconciles the two sets of results, and I conclude that the lowest end of the range of transient climate response to CO2 in present models and assessments7 (<1.3 °C) is very unlikely.


Another abstract, this from Geophysical Research Letters. What's interesting here is that they assess how much data would be needed to really nail down climate sensitivity, and by this analysis we're 15 years' worth short of being able to make with confidence the distinction between the lower values in the papers touted in the OP and 3 degrees.

Equilibrium climate sensitivity measures the long-term response of surface temperature to changes in atmospheric CO2. The range of climate sensitivities in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Fifth Assessment Report is unchanged from that published almost 30?years earlier in the Charney Report. We conduct perfect model experiments using an energy balance model to study the rate at which uncertainties might be reduced by observation of global temperature and ocean heat uptake. We find that a climate sensitivity of 1.5°C can be statistically distinguished from 3°C by 2030, 3°C from 4.5°C by 2040, and 4.5°C from 6°C by 2065. Learning rates are slowest in the scenarios of greatest concern (high sensitivities), due to a longer ocean response time, which may have bearing on wait-and-see versus precautionary mitigation policies. Learning rates are optimistic in presuming the availability of whole ocean heat data but pessimistic by using simple aggregated metrics and model physics.


This is from a non yet peer-reviewed draft paper from an economist, but speaks to what we ought to conclude concerning policy from revised estimates. The conclusion:


Despite important advances in other areas of climate science, we have discovered new uncertainties that make us even less confident about the range of equilibrium climate sensitivity than we were before the publication of the latest IPCC report. Given the increasing marginal costs of global warming, greater uncertainty, other factors equal, has an unambiguous implication for policy. It raises the return for taking action to curb greenhouse emissions.

LouisvilleDem

(303 posts)
13. Thanks
Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:07 PM
Oct 2014

However, only the first paper in your list that actually supports the idea that climate sensitivity is more than 3 degrees. The second merely says a number below 1.3 is very unlikely, the third describes how much time would have to pass before we can accurately determine what climate sensitivity is, and as far as I can tell, the last one says absolutely nothing about what climate sensitivity is, but rather discusses the impact of increasing uncertainty in the measurement.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
11. Judith Curry is Back Advocating Climate Inaction in the Wall Street Journal
Sat Oct 11, 2014, 05:38 PM
Oct 2014
http://www.desmogblog.com/2014/10/10/judith-curry-back-advocating-climate-inaction-wall-street-journal
[font face=Serif]Fri, 2014-10-10 13:49
[font size=5]Judith Curry is Back Advocating Climate Inaction in the Wall Street Journal[/font]
This is a guest post by Climate Nexus.

[font size=3]Judith Curry’s latest op-ed in the Wall Street Journal touts her new study co-authored with Nic Lewis. The takeaway of the piece - that the need for emissions reductions is “less urgent” than policymakers assume – is not even supported by her own study, much less the scientific mainstream.

Curry provides a highly biased and skewed overview of climate sensitivity studies, which makes sense for publication in the Wall Street Journal. In reality, the IPCC sensitivity estimate remains the most reliable and comprehensive expression of the state of knowledge on the topic, and scientists agree that this sensitivity range implies an urgent need for climate action.
  • Curry’s study doesn’t reveal new information that would affect IPCC estimates.
  • She examines only a small group of studies that agree with her conclusion, while the IPCC took many additional methods and factors into account.
  • Even low climate sensitivities still carry an urgent need to reduce greenhouse gas pollution.
  • Curry has growing ties to denier groups and her consulting business serves fossil fuel companies.
…[/font][/font]

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
16. And 0.8C of warming so far has already put us on the edge
Sun Oct 12, 2014, 06:44 PM
Oct 2014

The Arctic ice shelves in mass retreat, species rapidly migrating north, the Antarctic ice sheets in a now-unstoppable slide into the ocean, ocean acification already damaging fisheries and reefs, etc.

It's abundantly clear that "only" 2C of warming is not safe in any sense of the word.

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