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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:06 AM Mar 2013

Record cesium level detected in fish caught near Fukushima nuclear plant

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/03/16/national/record-cesium-level-detected-in-fish-caught-near-fukushima-nuclear-plant/#.UURft-1qP8s

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Friday it detected a record 740,000 becquerels per kilogram of radioactive cesium in a fish caught in waters near the crippled Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station, equivalent to 7,400 times the state-set limit deemed safe for human consumption.

The greenling measuring 38 cm in length and weighing 564 grams was caught near a water intake of the four reactor units in the power station’s port on Feb. 21 during the utility’s operation to remove fish from the port.

Tepco has installed a net on the sea floor of the port exit in Fukushima Prefecture to make it hard for fish living near the sediments of contaminated soil to go elsewhere.

According to Tepco, the previous record of cesium concentration in fish was 510,000 Bq/kg detected in another greenling captured in the same area. Currently, fishermen are voluntarily suspending operations off the coast of the prefecture except for experimental catches.
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Record cesium level detected in fish caught near Fukushima nuclear plant (Original Post) xchrom Mar 2013 OP
No big deal. Just take advantage of the natural decay of 137Cs Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #1
Or you could just avoid fishing from the reactor's intake FBaggins Mar 2013 #4
They've suspended fishing off the entire coast of the prefecture (state). kristopher Mar 2013 #8
Nope. FBaggins Mar 2013 #10
Your word is worthless. kristopher Mar 2013 #11
Your opinion of which words are worth something doesn't much matter. FBaggins Mar 2013 #13
That's 9 months old kristopher Mar 2013 #15
So you think that fishing stopped again? FBaggins Mar 2013 #16
Is that talapia? mountain grammy Mar 2013 #2
Wait until there is another study of tuna caught off of Esse Quam Videri Mar 2013 #3
There was one just last month. FBaggins Mar 2013 #5
You do not know that to be true. kristopher Mar 2013 #9
Of course I do. FBaggins Mar 2013 #12
Now you are just making things up. kristopher Mar 2013 #14
Yep... I make it up... FBaggins Mar 2013 #17
Wow. Everyone on earth is going to die. n/t NNadir Mar 2013 #6
And the fish was still alive? wtmusic Mar 2013 #7
 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
1. No big deal. Just take advantage of the natural decay of 137Cs
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 10:11 AM
Mar 2013

Put the fish in your freezer for 388 years, and it will be perfectly safe to eat.

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
4. Or you could just avoid fishing from the reactor's intake
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 03:54 PM
Mar 2013

It isn't as if this was on the way to someone's table.

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
10. Nope.
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:11 PM
Mar 2013

Fishing off Fukushima resumed several months ago.

Not that that's relevant. They weren't going to find anything anywhere close to this level (an obvious combination of ongoing bottom-feeding in the are where a huge proportion of the cesium likely settled to the sea floor - and in which nets keep the fish from traveling to other feeding areas).

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
11. Your word is worthless.
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:14 PM
Mar 2013

They just found this contamination and the article reporting it also states they've suspended fishing.

Baggins:

Nope.

Fishing off Fukushima resumed several months ago.

Not that that's relevant. They weren't going to find anything anywhere close to this level (an obvious combination of ongoing bottom-feeding in the are where a huge proportion of the cesium likely settled to the sea floor - and in which nets keep the fish from traveling to other feeding areas).

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
13. Your opinion of which words are worth something doesn't much matter.
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:48 PM
Mar 2013
They just found this contamination

They "just found this contamination" in the closed-off area literally a stone's throw from the plant. Within the seawall where the fish are closed in and a large proportion of the leaked cesium is sitting right there on the sea floor. It's not like it was unexpected... all of the bottom-feeders they bring up from that area (they've been trying to remove the fish) are likely highly contaminated.

and the article reporting it also states they've suspended fishing.

It depends on the type of fishing. Some species have tested well below thresholds and fishing has resumed, others were more variable and it likely wouldn't be economical.


Fukushima fishing coop to resume seafood sales

20 June, 2012 - The Fukushima Prefectural Federation of Fisheries Cooperative Associations has decided to resume sales of some types of seafood caught in seas off the prefecture.

Sales of seafood caught off Fukushima will take place for the first time since the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami started the nuclear crisis.

After test fishing, the group confirmed the safety of several kinds of seafood, including octopus.

http://www.seafoodsource.com/newsarticledetail.aspx?id=16415

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
16. So you think that fishing stopped again?
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:15 PM
Mar 2013

They began fishing for some species nine months ago after finding little to no contamination and then stopped (without it getting into the news)?

You are so self evidently making things up

So when I said they resumed fishing months ago... and then provided a link to one of many stories from months ago... that was "making it up"?

How strange.

You don't even see it as possible that they have still suspended fishing for some species and not for others? That wouldn't fit BOTH report? Nah!

How about this for current (five days ago). I suppose I'm making it up as well?

http://page2rss.com/8dee82dd2dbd1c92b981d2defc6a4ce3/6415636_6416904

•Less than 1% of the foodstuffs coming from the Tohoku region are above the nation’s limits for Cesium contamination. More than 250,000 items have been tested from 17 prefectures in northern and central Japan. There have been 2,200 above-limit cases. All the rest are below the health standards. As of March 5, 130 foods from 14 prefectures have been suspended from distribution. About half of the above-limit tests are from sea and freshwater products. Nearly 25,000 fish products have been tested for contamination and 90% are below the 100 Becquerel per kilogram health standard. 78% of those from Fukushima prefecture are below the limit. 97% of the fish and seafood products from other prefectures are below the limit. The above-limit species are mostly bottom-feeders. There seems to have been little contamination found in fish caught south of Chiba prefecture. There are more freshwater species above the health standard than those from the sea. (NHK World; Mainichi Shimbun)

Esse Quam Videri

(685 posts)
3. Wait until there is another study of tuna caught off of
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 11:19 AM
Mar 2013

California. The world will start to learn more and more about bio-accumulation. This and the Deepwater disaster is a big reason the wife and I have almost given up seafood entirely.

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
5. There was one just last month.
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 04:04 PM
Mar 2013
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=cesium-lining-tuna

This greenling is a far better example of bioaccumulation. Tuna don't spend enough time where there remains any significant exposure for them to accumulate much of anything.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
9. You do not know that to be true.
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:07 PM
Mar 2013

First of all, I'm surprised you've accepted anything that is published in SA. As I recall you ridiculed anything published in SA saying something along the lines of it being nothing like real science. That what when Jacobson published a version of his research there, in case you forgot.

Now, in your zeal to protect the nuclear industry you are not only pointing to SA as an authoritative source, you are twisting the content of the article itself.

Your comment:

Tuna don't spend enough time where there remains any significant exposure for them to accumulate much of anything.


SA's reporting actually says that tuna spawn and feed in Japanese coastal waters for about a year. 5 months after the disaster, they found Cs in the muscle of tuna off California. The level was low and the article highlights how that could be useful in tracking the tuna to learn about their migrating and feeding habits.

That information means that your claim is pure conjecture at best. If those tuna were found only 5 months after the disaster, then they hardly represent the normal levels of tuna that will feed there for their first full year of life. Additionally, since they were exposed in Japanese waters shortly after the disaster, it means contamination levels in their food supply probably had not had time to reach anywhere near the levels we are now seeing. The OP mentions that this 740K level broke a previous record. What they don't mention is that the previous 'record' of 510K was set only about 2-3 weeks ago.

Unless you know more than the researchers in the SA article, you have no idea how much time over their lives tuna will spend feeding in the waters off Japan. It could total far more than a single year as they return for spawning. You also have no idea of how contaminated their food supply will be. The breached reactor is still dumping water straight off the core into the groundwater; and presumably that is flowing directly into the ocean.






FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
12. Of course I do.
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:37 PM
Mar 2013
First of all, I'm surprised you've accepted anything that is published in SA. As I recall you ridiculed anything published in SA saying something along the lines of it being nothing like real science.

There's nothing wrong with SA. It's just not a prestigious peer-reviewed journal. It's mass-market pulp reporting on scientific subjects. It doesn't add credibility to Jacobsen, but it's fine for reporting things that are going on in the field. The point wasn't to validate some argument, just to document that in fact tuna are being studied and levels are going down... not up.

SA's reporting actually says that tuna spawn and feed in Japanese coastal waters for about a year. 5 months after the disaster, they found Cs in the muscle of tuna off California

And that fits just what I said. They aren't hanging around in one area (as the greenlings) feeding on one source that might be contaminated. In order for bioaccumulation to occur (that is, to find levels in some top-of-the-food-chain animals that would appear more dangerous that the virtually nonexistent levels in the water), the animals have to spend time eating other animals that are themselves hanging around some food source that remains more highly contaminated. Tuna simply don't fit that model.

That information means that your claim is pure conjecture at best. If those tuna were found only 5 months after the disaster, then they hardly represent the normal levels of tuna that will feed there for their first full year of life.

Except that tuna aren't bottom feeders and the contamination levels offshore have dropped too far for there to be any significant additional accumulation. Nor were the ones from five months after the disaster the last tuna to be measured. The disaster was now two years ago, so there certainly have been fish that fed in Japanese coastal waters for the first year of their lives. In fact, the young tuna this year were almost the only ones that they could detect Fukushima cesium in (with Cs134 levels usually under 1 bq/kg)

Additionally, since they were exposed in Japanese waters shortly after the disaster, it means contamination levels in their food supply probably had not had time to reach anywhere near the levels we are now seeing.

Which explains the falling contamination levels in the tuna.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
14. Now you are just making things up.
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 08:54 PM
Mar 2013

Literally - you are just making shit up. You really have no capacity for shame.

We're done.

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
17. Yep... I make it up...
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 09:23 PM
Mar 2013

and then I get Environmental Science and Technology to publish it for me so I don't look foolish.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmicheli.stanford.edu%2Fpdf%2FMadiganetal_EST_2013.pdf&ei=ohlFUa3tCNK04AP1hIGoBA&usg=AFQjCNEKbG3DXYLA4A7zCVYmfD4OTqElaw&bvm=bv.43828540,d.dmQ

You clearly expected levels to rise after longer periods because (for some reason) you assumed that's how bioaccumulation would work. You can pretend that I "made it up" if you like... but it doesn't change the fact that you were flat wrong... again.

On edit - one correction. Reading further I see that it wasn't a random group of recent arrivals with few of the older fish having Cs134 contamination... the 134 was the tag that they used to separate recent arrivers from those that had been near CA long enough for there to be no 134. So it wouldn't be correct to say that you were (again) proven wrong by the older fish rarely having any 134 at all. Instead you were (again) proven wrong by the fact that the older fish who were recent arrivals - and thus had spent over a year feeding around Japan recently (as opposed to just after the accident) had levels that didn't show the increase you obviously expected.

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