Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumHydrogen Cars: A Dream That Won't Die
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/429495/hydrogen-cars-a-dream-that-wont-die/[font size=4]Better technology and high battery costs have revived interest in hydrogen-guzzling vehicles.[/font]
Peter Fairley
Monday, October 8, 2012
[font size=3]By the mid-2000s, the dream of hydrogen-powered cars had faded in the face of stubborn practicalities like the lack of charging stations and the inefficiency of fuel cells. But as the auto industry wrestles with the limitations of battery-powered electric vehicles, the dream lives on. That is apparent at the Paris Auto Show.
When the show opened last month, battery-driven electric vehicles stood front and center (see "Renault and Others Debut Electric Cars at Paris Show" . But hydrogen-fuel-cell vehicles were also omnipresent. Show visitors could test-drive seven fuel-cell cars from leading automakers (including an SUV that Hyundai plans to begin leasing this winter), and a bevy of snazzy concept cars conjured up visions of a hydrogen-fueled future.
Automakers are showing new interest because key problems with fuel cellstheir limited capacity to convert hydrogen to electricity and their susceptibility to freezinghave largely been overcome in recent years. At the same time, the first mass-produced electric vehicles based on batteriesthe fuel cell's technological rival for the zero-emissions mantlehave seen sales slow because their range remains disappointing and their prices high.
Even Nissan, which leads the global electric-vehicle market with its Leaf subcompact and has vowed to sell 1.5 million battery-powered vehicles by 2016 with corporate partner Renault, is showing a powerful fuel-cell SUV as a concept car in Paris. The company's strategy reflects widely held views in the automotive industry, according to consultancy KPMG. Of the 200 executives polled in its 2012 Global Auto Executive Survey, those predicting that electric-car buyers of 2025 will prefer a fuel cell outnumbered those backing battery technology by 25 percent.
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2on2u
(1,843 posts)battery pack being used to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen.... then sending the hydrogen to the fuel cell for production of electrical potential. Then send this "clean" electricity (depending on where the lion cells got their electrical charge from) to the motors. What isn't used by the motors could be sent back to the batteries. I'm pretty sure I have just committed several engineering sins however I can see it working even if they can't. They being the smart people who actually get to design these vehicles.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Yep.
2on2u
(1,843 posts)the cool stuff we have today... dll's, image files, bourbon and magical incantations.
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)Distributed generation. Each Gas station can make its own hydrogen.
2on2u
(1,843 posts)carbon nano-fibers.
http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2009/07/03/chicken-feathers-can-store-lots-of-hydrogen/
Chicken Feathers Can Store Lots of Hydrogen
July 3, 2009 | 4 Comments
Carbonized chicken feather fibers can hold vast amounts of hydrogen according to Richard P. Wool, Ph.D., professor of chemical engineering and director of the Affordable Composites from Renewable Resources program at the University of Delaware in Newark.
Chicken feather fibers are mostly made of keratin, a natural protein that forms strong, hollow tubes. When heated, the protein creates cross links, which strengthen its structure, and it also becomes more porous, increasing its surface area. The result is carbonized chicken feather fibers, which can absorb as much or perhaps more hydrogen than carbon nanotubes or metal hydrides, two other materials being studied for their hydrogen storage potential, Wool says. Plus, theyre dirt-cheap.
The project goal is to develop new low cost hydrogen storage substrates from the waste material chicken feathers (some 6 billion lbs/yr in U.S. alone). The results show that carbonized chicken feathers have the potential to meet the DOE requirements for H2 storage of 81 grams H2 per L in 2015 and are competitive with carbon nanotubes and metal hydrides at a tiny fraction of the cost. When keratin based chicken feathers are heat treated by a controlled pyrolysis process, hollow carbon microtubes are formed with nanoporous walls. Their specific surface area increases up to 450 m2/g by the formation of fractals and micropores thus enabling more hydrogen adsorption than the raw, untreated feather fibers.
Wool estimates that it would take a 75-gallon tank to go 300 miles in a car using carbonized chicken feather fibers to store hydrogen. He says his team is working to improve that range.
http://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=4154.php
New carbon nanotube hydrogen storage results surpass Freedom Car requirements
(Nanowerk Spotlight) Two of the major challenges of our modern, mobile society are the shrinking of available fossil energy resources on one hand and climate change associated with global warming on the other. Continuing population growth multiplied by the increase in consumption and living standards, especially in developing countries, will require more and more oil, coal and natural gas to 'power' humanity. Notwithstanding efforts like the Kyoto Protocol - which wasn't signed by the two major CO2 polluters China and the U.S. - an ever increasing rate of fossil fuel usage means that the increasing emission of CO2 is likely to cause an acceleration of the climate change that is in progress already.
Transportation, in particular passenger cars, is one of the areas where new technology could lead to environmental beneficial change. Never mind that GM is still selling 15-20,000 Hummers a year, or that Tata is planning to sell millions of its new Nano car. One of the much touted technological solutions is to substitute fossil hydrocarbon based energy with the energy from carbon-free sources like the sun, nuclear energy, or the hot interior of the Earth and use hydrogen as an energy carrier (read more about this in "The Hydrogen Economy" .
Hydrogen can be produced from water using energy from carbon-free sources [editor's note: unfortunately it can also be produced from dirty fossil fuels; see the Nanowerk Spotlight "Nanotechnology could clean up the hydrogen car's dirty little secret"] and can serve as fuel in fuel cells to generate electricity, either stationary or on board of vehicles. Considerable research efforts are going into the evaluation of various nanostructures, such as carbon nanotubes, to find the most suitable hydrogen storage materials.
Safe, efficient and compact hydrogen storage is a major challenge in order to realize hydrogen powered transport. According to the DOE Freedom CAR program roadmap the on-board hydrogen storage system should provide 6 weight % (wt%) of hydrogen capacity to be considered for the technological implementation.
Currently, the storage of hydrogen in the absorbed form is considered as the most appropriate way to solve this problem. Thus, a media capable of absorbing and releasing large quantities of hydrogen easily and reliably is being actively sought. Since claims by Dillon et al. that single-walled carbon nanotubes (SWCNT) can store hydrogen, this material has been considered as a candidate for hydrogen storage media ("Storage of hydrogen in single-walled carbon nanotubes" .
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And, in the meantime, we need to focus on other alternative energy sources, too. Hemp, anyone?
CRH
(1,553 posts)You maintain all that optimism with an illegal smile? (
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)CRH
(1,553 posts)tinrobot
(10,903 posts)Not my idea of progress.
I can charge my EV with sunlight. Making hydrogen and compressing it is a much more expensive and complex task for the individual.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Oh yeah, I remember now.
It's what blew up two huge buildings in Japan... so they say.
If true that is some killer stuff, ok?
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)Better stop eating grain! That stuff is dangerous.
http://news.google.com/?q=grain+elevator+explosion
Gasoline has been known to explode
that doesnt stop millions of people from using it in their cars every day. However, hydrogen is safer.
Kennah
(14,277 posts)Lots of technological challenges with fuel cell cars. Cost, leakage, our main source of hydrogen would be from natural gas at present.
In time, fuel cells will regularly make it into buildings and ships. It's already happened in cost cases, but it remains very rare.
EVs are already here. Might not be perfect, but they will get better and EVs are here. We don't a sophisticated charging network, but we have an electric grid and we can add chargers and EVs are here. Batteries will get better, or maybe a battery swapping scheme will come together, and EVs are here. The prices will come down, and EVs are here.
Fuel cell cars are like nuclear fusion--it will be great once they arrive, but in the decades until that happens we need to do something.
Kennah
(14,277 posts)See notes that fuel-cell vehicles have another crucial hurdle to overcome: the dearth of hydrogen fueling stations. There are currently no more than 280 worldwide, and many are not publicly accessible, according to Ulrich Buenger, coördinator for H2Moves, a 20-million-euro fuel-cell demonstration project funded by the European Union. Boosting their numbers will be pricey, since hydrogen filling stations cost around a million euros to install.
Buenger predicts that the cost of hydrogen stations will decline towards 300,000 euros, the price of a natural-gas pump, with each one installeda process that is accelerating in Europe. Germany has 14 hydrogen stations open to the public, and a public-private collaboration announced early this year aims to roll out 36 more by 2015enough to link most cities. Denmark laid out a comparable plan this spring. And on Friday, global chemicals producer Air Products announced plans to build two hydrogen filling stations in London, which would give the city a total of five.
Such plans are missing in the United States, though, where a U.S. Department of Energy website lists just seven public stations nationwideall of them in California.
There is one big reason to be optimistic that this could change, says Buengeran abundant supply of natural gas flowing from hydraulic fracturing (or fracking) wells, which provides a ready source of hydrogen. "There is already more and more interest in fuel-cell technology because of the new natural-gas resources," he says.
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I believe I've read that Level 3 EV charging stations cost around $50K, but those are too expensive compared to a million euros for a hydrogen refueling station? Seriously?
But hey, fracking will solve it all.
Oy.
hunter
(38,321 posts)Restructuring our cities and denser suburbs so that cars are simply unnecessary is the best solution.
Instead of building new cars we could be building public transportation systems and neighborhood markets.