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BeHereNow

(17,162 posts)
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 01:41 PM Aug 2012

"Thousands of fish die as Midwest streams heat up"

http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-fish-die-midwest-streams-heat-183228110.html


"LINCOLN, Neb. (AP) — Thousands of fish are dying in the Midwest as the hot, dry summer dries up rivers and causes water temperatures to climb in some spots to nearly 100 degrees.

About 40,000 shovelnose sturgeon were killed in Iowa last week as water temperatures reached 97 degrees. Nebraska fishery officials said they've seen thousands of dead sturgeon, catfish, carp, and other species in the Lower Platte River, including the endangered pallid sturgeon. And biologists in Illinois said the hot weather has killed tens of thousands of large- and smallmouth bass and channel catfish and is threatening the population of the greater redhorse fish, a state-endangered species.

So many fish died in one Illinois lake that the carcasses clogged an intake screen near a power plant, lowering water levels to the point that the station had to shut down one of its generators."

Yikes.

BHN
18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"Thousands of fish die as Midwest streams heat up" (Original Post) BeHereNow Aug 2012 OP
This should be a clarion call, but nothing seems to matter. Faygo Kid Aug 2012 #1
me neither but my daughter will be leftyohiolib Aug 2012 #2
Same here leftyohiolib... BeHereNow Aug 2012 #4
Same here also. emmadoggy Aug 2012 #8
my little girl is 10 also leftyohiolib Aug 2012 #18
Crop failures- fish die off. No one seems too alarmed...except the scientists. BeHereNow Aug 2012 #3
Yes, stockpile. HubertHeaver Aug 2012 #5
Good advice... BeHereNow Aug 2012 #6
one bad thing about stockpiled food is this ... CountAllVotes Aug 2012 #12
Yes, rotate your stock. Oldest to the front where it will be used HubertHeaver Aug 2012 #16
It has been hot and dry before and there have been fish kills many times before. It's stupid to doc03 Aug 2012 #7
Please spend more time in the E/E forum and emmadoggy Aug 2012 #9
+1 XemaSab Aug 2012 #10
Goodbye. Faygo Kid Aug 2012 #11
+1. My thought too. BeHereNow Aug 2012 #13
My point was a couple years ago people like Fox News were saying that the doc03 Aug 2012 #14
Quit spouting RW talking points. Odin2005 Aug 2012 #15
No, they weren't hatrack Aug 2012 #17

Faygo Kid

(21,478 posts)
1. This should be a clarion call, but nothing seems to matter.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 01:53 PM
Aug 2012

I just don't know what to say anymore. We're obviously doomed within a half century unless we wake up. I guess I should be grateful that I won't be around then.

BeHereNow

(17,162 posts)
4. Same here leftyohiolib...
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 02:02 PM
Aug 2012

I fear for her and all the others who will be here.
It's not sustainable- the system we have created.
How will they survive?
No way in HELL I would consider bringing a child into this world.
That is all I can think when I see pregnant women these days...

BHN

Edit- Sorry, I just realized I left the "t" out of your name- fixed it.

emmadoggy

(2,142 posts)
8. Same here also.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 05:16 PM
Aug 2012

Every time I come to the E/E forum, I leave feeling depressed and very afraid for my two children who are 10 years old. I think it is going to get REAL ugly before even my husband and I are gone, but for our kids? Horrifying.






 

leftyohiolib

(5,917 posts)
18. my little girl is 10 also
Wed Aug 8, 2012, 01:16 PM
Aug 2012

and i get very upset thinking that her life might be hell and im not here

BeHereNow

(17,162 posts)
3. Crop failures- fish die off. No one seems too alarmed...except the scientists.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 01:58 PM
Aug 2012

Guess we better learn to make bark and grass soup Faygo...
There's not going to be anything left to eat sooner than later.

It's as though the media has been told not to talk about what is going on.
I think I am going to start stock piling canned stuff, while I CAN STILL AFFORD IT.

BHN

BeHereNow

(17,162 posts)
6. Good advice...
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 02:21 PM
Aug 2012

Probably shouldn't store it in a place that is obvious either.
Scenes from "The Road" keep popping in my mind.
It's like everything, life as we know it, is teetering dangerously close to the end.

And with all the gun nuts loose...

BHN

CountAllVotes

(20,870 posts)
12. one bad thing about stockpiled food is this ...
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 07:51 PM
Aug 2012

It only lasts for so long. Eventually, it too goes bad.



HubertHeaver

(2,522 posts)
16. Yes, rotate your stock. Oldest to the front where it will be used
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 05:42 PM
Aug 2012

or given to the food pantry before it expires.

doc03

(35,338 posts)
7. It has been hot and dry before and there have been fish kills many times before. It's stupid to
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 02:56 PM
Aug 2012

blame that on global warming. Remember a couple years ago when the Rethugs were saying that the cold winter was
proof that there wasn't any such thing and some of us were saying one cold winter doesn't meen anything. I know in this area we had a hotter and dryer
summer in 1988 than this year. What about the dust bowl days of the 30's?

emmadoggy

(2,142 posts)
9. Please spend more time in the E/E forum and
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 05:25 PM
Aug 2012

educate yourself about climate change. You seem to have some misconceptions.


BeHereNow

(17,162 posts)
13. +1. My thought too.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 08:09 PM
Aug 2012

I didn't even bother to reply.
"Don't waste your breath on fools" is now my official DU creed.

BHN

doc03

(35,338 posts)
14. My point was a couple years ago people like Fox News were saying that the
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 10:18 PM
Aug 2012

cold weather we had was proof global warming don't exist. Then people on our side were saying one year doesn't
prove anything, So now it is kind of hypocritical to make the claim that this year's hot spell is definitive proof of global warming. Yes I am skeptical of the global warming claims. I am 64 years old and have seen years without snow before and summers even hotter and dryer than this one. Thirty years ago scientists were predicting a new ice age.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
15. Quit spouting RW talking points.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 11:36 PM
Aug 2012

"Thirty years ago scientists were predicting a new ice age."

Yes, several thousand years from now were humans not affecting the climate! The Media sensationalized it because of the cold winters of the 70s.

hatrack

(59,587 posts)
17. No, they weren't
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 07:11 PM
Aug 2012
http://www.wmconnolley.org.uk/sci/iceage/

To clarify a little: I am interested in "Was an imminent Ice Age predicted in the '70's by scientists, in scientific journals?". That means articles in scientific journals and reputable books. I am not particularly interested in what appeared in the popular press or on TV and do not intend to discuss it here (but see context), since I do not regard these as reliable sources for scientific information.

Note that many of the oh-there-was-an-ice-age-predicted type articles tend to focus on non-science articles for their sources: newsweek, for example. This is cheating on their part. Newsweek isn't science, of course. If newsweek was quoting peer-reviewed journals, then they should go back to those.

We also need to know what we mean by "imminent". Since the question arises in the context of the greenhouse gas/climate change debate, "imminent" is a timescale comparable to greenhouse-type timescales: ie, the next century or so. See below for my take on long-term predictions.

Ed. - hyperlinks to scientific articles at site above

NAS Report from 1979 - http://www.atmos.ucla.edu/~brianpm/download/charney_report.pdf

In “Climate Science in a Tornado,” George F. Will has completely misrepresented the historical New York Times coverage of the “global cooling” issue. Despite Will’s claim that the New York Times was a “megaphone for the alarmed” during “1970s predictions about the near certainty of calamitous global cooling,” its coverage was actually nuanced and prescient.

On December 21, 1969, the New York Times ran a UPI wire story, “Scientists Caution on Changes In Climate as Result of Pollution,” which reported that scientists discussed the possible threat of manmade global warming at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union, with calls for greater monitoring of the climate:

J.O. Fletcher, a physical scientist for the Rand Corporation in Santa Monica, Calif., said that “man had only a few decades to solve the problem of global warming caused by pollution.” Global warming could cause further melting of the polar ice caps and affect the earth’s climate.

On December 29, 1974, the New York Times ran the story, “Forecast for Forecasting: Cloudy.” This article is a long discussion of the state of climate forecasting, and has an extensive discussion of the process of global cooling due to aerosols, and the contrary impact of increasing CO2 in the atmosphere, and the great difficulty in developing valid and reliable climate forecasting models. The lead paragraph:

EDIT

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2009/02/28/174267/global-cooling-megaphone/?mobile=nc

he science of climate change is difficult and everyone agrees there are uncertainties and a contested point or two. But some points are asserted over and over again and aren’t really contested. They are just plain false. Yet no matter how often they are refuted they rise again from the dead, true zombie lies. One of the great things about writing on the internet is the ability to link to really excellent pieces and Darksyde over at DailyKos has just such a piece you owe it to yourself to read. It’s not short but not excessively long, either. Just long enough to get the job done. And the job? To put a stake through the heart of this undead right wing talking point:

“In the 70s, all the scientists were predicting a new ice age, so why should we listen to them now.” To hear the usual suspects tell it today, the earth science community was in a fenzied panic, claiming the ice was about the begin another long trek south. Like most zombie lies, this one is based on a few grains of truth, and a whole lotta whoppers:

Despite active efforts to answer these questions, the following pervasive myth arose: there was a consensus among climate scientists of the 1970s that either global cooling or a full-fledged ice age was imminent. A review of the climate science literature from 1965 to 1979 shows this myth to be false. The myth’s basis lies in a selective misreading of the texts both by some members of the media at the time and by some observers today. (Thomas C. Peterson, William M. Connolley, and John Fleck, The Myth of the 1970s Global Cooling Scientific Consensus,Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society)

If you want the details beneath the details the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society that Darksyde links to above will give it to you, but the Darksyde piece is a shorter version and extremely lucid. It supplies the historical context and cites the evidence that there never was a consensus that cooling from anthropogenic sources was more likely than heating (the majority opinion always favored greenhouse effect heating over particulate effect cooling). Since then, advances in climate science and computer power have abundantly confirmed that view.

While not the main point of the piece, he also touches on a number of other issues, such as the causes of previous Ice Ages and the place of the Milankovitch cycle. To True Deniers, this won’t be convincing. They do not live in a Reality-Based World. But one thing is quite clear. The bogus claim amplified by the Right Wing Megaphone that there was an earlier scientific consensus that human activity would bring forth an Ice Age is a myth.

EDIT

http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2008/11/24/the-1970s-ice-age-myth/


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