Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumNothing can compete with renewable energy
Prof John Schellnhuber says that if countries implement their pledges made for Paris climate summit it will give huge boost to wind, tidal and solar power
Damian Carrington @dpcarrington Monday 9 November 2015 08.06 ES
Climate scientist, Prof John Schellnhuber, has advised Angela Merkel and Pope Francis. Photograph: Patrick Pleul/CorbisT
Catastrophic global warming can be avoided with a deal at a crunch UN climate change summit in Paris this December because ultimately nothing can compete with renewables, according to one of the worlds most influential climate scientists.
Most countries have already made voluntary pledges to roll out clean energy and cut carbon emissions, and Prof John Schellnhuber said the best hope of making nations keep their promises was moral pressure.
Schellnhuber is a key member of the German delegation attending the Paris summit and has advised Angela Merkel and Pope Francis on climate change.
He said there was reason for optimism about the Paris talks, where at least 80 heads of state are expected. That is a very telling thing - a sign of hope - because people at the top level do not want to be tainted by failure, he said.
If a critical mass of big countries implement their pledges, he said in an interview with the Guardian, the move towards a global low-carbon economy would gain unstoppable momentum...
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/09/clean-energy-is-key-successful-climate-deal-in-paris-says-top-scientist
See also (Open Access) at journal Science
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2017/01/06/science.aam6284.full
Barack Obama
Email: press@who.eop.gov. After 20 January 2017: contact@obamaoffice44.org
Science 09 Jan 2017:
DOI: 10.1126/science.aam6284
Abstract
Private-sector incentives help drive decoupling of emissions and economic growth.
The release of carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gases (GHGs) due to human activity is increasing global average surface air temperatures, disrupting weather patterns, and acidifying the ocean (1). Left unchecked, the continued growth of GHG emissions could cause global average temperatures to increase by another 4°C or more by 2100 and by 1.5 to 2 times as much in many midcontinent and far northern locations (1). Although our understanding of the impacts of climate change is increasingly and disturbingly clear, there is still debate about the proper course for U.S. policya debate that is very much on display during the current presidential transition. But putting near-term politics aside, the mounting economic and scientific evidence leave me confident that trends toward a clean-energy economy that have emerged during my presidency will continue and that the economic opportunity for our country to harness that trend will only grow. This Policy Forum will focus on the four reasons I believe the trend toward clean energy is irreversible.
ECONOMIES GROW, EMISSIONS FALL... <snip>
PRIVATE-SECTOR EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS... <snip>
Market Forces in the Power Sector... <snip>
Global Momentum... <snip>
CONCLUSION
We have long known, on the basis of a massive scientific record, that the urgency of acting to mitigate climate change is real and cannot be ignored. In recent years, we have also seen that the economic case for actionand against inactionis just as clear, the business case for clean energy is growing, and the trend toward a cleaner power sector can be sustained regardless of near-term federal policies.
Despite the policy uncertainty that we face, I remain convinced that no country is better suited to confront the climate challenge and reap the economic benefits of a low-carbon future than the United States and that continued participation in the Paris process will yield great benefit for the American people, as well as the international community. Prudent U.S. policy over the next several decades would prioritize, among other actions, decarbonizing the U.S. energy system, storing carbon and reducing emissions within U.S. lands, and reducing non-CO2 emissions (23).
Of course, one of the great advantages of our system of government is that each president is able to chart his or her own policy course. And President-elect Donald Trump will have the opportunity to do so. The latest science and economics provide a helpful guide for what the future may bring, in many cases independent of near-term policy choices, when it comes to combatting climate change and transitioning to a clean-energy economy.
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2017/01/06/science.aam6284.full
longship
(40,416 posts)Pump water up hill during off-peak, let it flow through turbines during peak.
We have the technology now for intermittent power generation like solar, wind, tidal, etc. Many locations already have elements of such infrastructure in place to store that energy.
Unfortunately, climate change is now officially a Chinese conspiracy.
Sad! (As one ignorant asshole might Tweet.)
kristopher
(29,798 posts)Jiggle your thinking a bit and reorient your viewpoint from where we have been to where we are going. For proper appreciation of the available technologies it's necessary to look at the provision of power as an endeavor starting at the end user's location with the resources that are most suitable to the task of creating island-able microgrids.
Pumped hydro storage will certainly play an important role, but the role of "behind the meter" energy production, treatment and storage are the key to lowering costs.
With that in mind the role of end use energy efficiency, stationary batteries, and various thermal storage technologies for buildings, will determine the ultimate structure of our future grid.
I guess I'm saying total system costs will leave pumped hydro with a smaller role than it's comparative costs among storage options might lead one to believe.
longship
(40,416 posts)Behind the meter is almost totally incapable of fulfilling clean energy needs on a large scale. We need the large energy companies to adopt clean energy, not just Joe Blow with his house roof solar panels or Hugo Bigfactory Company.
Last I heard, pumped hydro efficiency has approx 80% efficiency. Plus, it can be added onto existing infrastructure with existing technology which is a huge advantage. Storage batteries don't come even close to that efficiency and require rather new infrastructure and tech that has yet to be built into the grid.
Forget hydrogen. Generating it is a huge energy sink.
Just pump water uphill. Easy Peasey! 80% is pretty damned good. Plus, there are lots of places where much of the infrastructure is already in place.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)But if you want to understand what's really going on, that is where your focus needs to be.
"Behind the meter is almost totally incapable of fulfilling clean energy needs on a large scale."
That is absolutely, completely false. Distributed generation is fundamentally focused on an approach geared to end users being in charge of their energy supply. Think about this - what strategy should be followed to bring energy security to undeveloped areas of the world. Large scale generation and transmission? Or might it not be better to work at the individual/community level, maximizing local production and storage opportunities?
longship
(40,416 posts)But individual efforts are not going to make a serious dent in energy needs in urban areas where so much energy is consumed.
Some dude down the block with solar panels on his roof does next to nothing when compared to the other millions of residents around him. However, put a solar farm out in the desert and one can deliver that energy to an entire city. And one can store that power at night by pumping water to a reservoir where it can provide 24 hour power at about 80% efficiency for the hydro storage.
We are not -- I think -- going to be able to solve the world's energy needs piecemeal, one house at a time. We have to think big, not small, in many locales.
I really do like the idea of small individual efforts where it is appropriate, however, like where there is no existing infrastructure.
Thanks for the response.
Best regards to you.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)I dont see why community solar is evil:
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy11osti/49930.pdf
longship
(40,416 posts)So individual solar might work here, if one could afford it, and if the clouds would clear once in a while.
I like the idea of community solar as a compromise. But then storage might become a problem, unless it just kicks the extra power back to the grid, which is probably only a stopgap, however, a suitable one.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)However, economies of scale still work. If a community gets together and erects a solar farm, they can do it more cheaply than each household doing it independently.
At some point, storage may become important, but at this point, it really isnt. Solar just doesnt represent that large a percentage of the power supply. So, you make
longship
(40,416 posts)The transformer is the bigger problem from what I read. I am by no means an expert on this, however.
Community power here might be problematic as people are fairly spread out.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)OK, so, right next to that centralized generating facility, you erect a solar farm. Some on this list believe that for your utility to erect a solar farm somehow sullies the solar power. I do not share their view.
20 years ago, everyone could have run out and purchased a generator for their home, but they didnt, it just doesnt make sense! Instead, they purchased power from a utility, or they formed a collective or a cooperative. They can do the same thing today with solar.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdcd/Michigan_Community_Solar_Guidebook_437888_7.pdf
https://micommunitysolar.org/
http://michiganenergyoptions.org/
longship
(40,416 posts)That's the only thing available here.
They are a good outfit, though. Their service is quite good, especially when compared to a few decades ago when outages were much more frequent and long lived.
Now they are rare and rarely last more than a half hour. That's really good in the winter and especially when one considers that no electricity also means no running water.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)So, show up for a meeting of the Co-Op and suggest the co-op build a solar farm!
longship
(40,416 posts)They are in tune to renewable energy, but MI does not have a lot of sunshine in winter, so that's an issue here.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)But I've lived here for all my life and winters are mostly overcast. It's the big lakes!!! The data is wrong in my area.
Google "lake effect" and you'll get the idea.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)[font size=3]One of the most commonly raised questions, when discussing the potential for solar in Michigan, is whether it is viable given our fluctuating weather and seasonal conditions. Despite the fact that Michigan is not known for its abundant sunshine like the southwestern states, the opportunity to harness energy from the sun in Michigan is great.
Germany, for example, is not particularly sunny, but due to its solar advancement policies and programs, has put solar to the test in a setting that experiences lower levels of sun access than Michigan (see map, previous page). From its southern to northern border, Germanys latitude runs from 48 to 54 degrees. In Michigan, the highest latitude in the state is 47 degrees (Houghton, Upper Peninsula). The highest latitude in the Lower Peninsula is 45 degrees (Mackinaw City) and the lowest is 41 degrees (New Buffalo). Yet, despite having less access to solar radiation, Germany is setting the global record for solar power production.
Germany, the worlds leader in solar energy generation, receives about as much sunlight as the state of Alaska, yet Germany has 80 times more solar power feeding the grid than the U.S.3 In Germany, the solar- promoting policies and generous government subsidies provided to the industry are main contributors to solar energy flourishing there. Closer to home, New Jersey is a great example of a state that is not especially sunny, but has one of the fastest growing solar markets in the nation. In New Jersey, the governors Energy Master Plan set strong solar policies that are launching their solar adoption initiative.
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From Page 28:
[font size=3]The first Community Solar program is currently underway in Michigan, and officially started on April 15, 2013. Cherryland Electric Cooperative and Traverse City Light and Power (TCL&P) have partnered to offer the Solar Up North (SUN) Alliance to their members. Cherryland is an electric cooperative with 33,000 members and TCL&P is a municipal utility with 12,000 members. As municipal and co-op electric companies, they are not restricted by MPSC regulations and can simply choose to offer a Community Solar program if they feel it is in the best interest of their members.
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longship
(40,416 posts)I bring it up again, and they say no again.
They are a small co-op, not fucking Consumer's Power.
They are doing well keeping reliable power in the area. And I am happy about that in spite of the fact that they don't have the money to add to their infrastructure right now.
Plus, their annual rebates save me about 10% on my power costs.
I'm not complaining.
And near Lake Michigan the clouds just do not stop in winter. West Michigan is a horrible place for solar power. I don't give a fuck with what the wealthy Chicagoans that live by Traverse Bay do. We're poor here.
I don't blame my electrical co-op.