Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumCan humanity survive the 21st century?
Humans are facing the greatest test in the million-year ascent of our kind. But this isnt a single challenge, like a famine or disease outbreak. It is a constellation of ten huge man-made threats, which are now coming together to imperil our existence.
Society often regards these risks ecological collapse, resource depletion, weapons of mass destruction, global warming, global poisoning, food insecurity, population and urban expansion, pandemic disease, dangerous new technologies and self-delusion as separate issues. In reality, they are deeply intertwined: each affects the others. This means they cannot be dealt with one at a time, but must be solved in conjunction and at species level.
Over recent years I have encountered many well-educated, well-informed people scientists, grandparents and young people especially who expressed the fear that we may be entering the end game of human history. That civilisation, and maybe even our species, will not survive the compound dangers we are accruing for ourselves.
However the greatest challenge may lie, not in the physical threats we face, but in our own minds. Our belief in non-material things like money, politics, religion and the human narrative often diverts and weakens our efforts to work together for survival. This has to change. Pope Francis, in his encyclical Laudato Si, demonstrated how religion can be re-dedicated to human survival and it is essential that money, politics and the human narrative are similarly reinvented. Otherwise they will sabotage the very actions essential to our continuance.
(GG: And of course the obligatory hopium paragraph...)
There are also two extremely promising developments. The advent of a new human ability to think as a species by sharing knowledge and values through the internet and social media is reshaping, for all time and for the better, our ability to co-operate around the planet. And the emergence of women as leaders in all walks of society is changing how humanity thinks about the future: women, as a rule, do not start wars, dig coal, ravage landscapes, empty the oceans, wipe out other species and knowingly poison their offspring. They think about the children and the grand children, and their needs and they have already made a start on the population threat by reducing the human birth rate worldwide.
How much the two factors Cribb proposes - the Internet and women leaders - can act to change the actual behavior of our species depends on how much damage has already been done, what threats have not yet emerged, and how much time we have left before the rupture of a critical system.
Those two factors are also problematic in themselves. The internet is a double-edged sword - it makes resource extraction, human habitat expansion and the development of new technologies an order of magnitude more efficient, faster and larger.
Women leaders are not a sure-fire panacea either. Despite examples like Vigdís Finnbogadóttir and Mary Robinson, women like Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Madeleine Albright, Angela Merkel, Isabel Peron, Condoleeza Rice and Hillary Clinton have demonstrated that women are not exempt from the influence of power simply by reason of their gender.
LouisvilleDem
(303 posts)The rich will live well and the poor will die in horrible numbers--just like always.
Nitram
(22,822 posts)mega-storms, that a massive displacement of people will cause the failure of civilization as we know it. I don't believe we'll go extinct as a species, but we could enter a period of total anarchy and survival by those who are isolated and able to grow, gather, and hunt their own food. If deep ocean currents failed, the result would be catastrophic both for sea life and for places such as the UK where temperatures would plunge.
The rich would actually be at a disadvantage because they depend on others for food, clothing, etc. If governments fail, currency and their offshore accounts would become worthless. So would gold. Only items useful for survival would have value.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)in their sufferings
Ask yourself this, who usually suffers in famines?
Nitram
(22,822 posts)as well as the financial system itself.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)What happens in finance doesn't stay in finance.
Nitram
(22,822 posts)A complete breakdown in society. The wealthy will be the most vulnerable because their money and "influence" are worthless.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)Look to feudalism for your model.
Nitram
(22,822 posts)Why would anybody cater to the wealthy when their money is worthless and they are unable to get food? they can hunker down in one of their mansions with their family and some guns, but they will run out of food and fuel and then what?
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)Do you believe things will lose all value? If the local chieftain controls an iron mine, or a hydroponic farm, does he need the Federal Reserve? What if all he controls is a band of fighters, who can take the things they want?
Compare the collapse youre predicting to the fall of the Roman empire. What followed?
Nitram
(22,822 posts)Local chieftain? We're talking about the families that are wealthy today, the Kochs, the Romneys, the Trumps (?). They have neither the skills nor the knowledge to survive in a world in which the economic and financial system has completely broken down. Do you really think wealthy Romans survived in 410 when Alaric took Rome by starvation and sacked it for three days?
No my friend, the many things that the wealthy have - their cars, priceless works of art, expensive clothing, jets, yachts - will be worthless when fuel is unavailable and the only things of great value are food, clothing and the ability to lead a band of Vandals.
OKIsItJustMe
(19,938 posts)If you need agriculture, land and water are of value.
If you would like to make things, metallic ores are of value.
Petroleum will still be of value, it just wont be as readily available. We know how to produce biofuels, just not in great quantities. It may be that only the rich will be able to afford these fuels.
I am reminded of the rich Germans, who, when petroleum was scarce, ran their automobiles on wood gas (the product of partial combustion.) Sure, it was inefficient, but
the rich can afford inefficiency.
Gold was of value before it was minted into coins:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Monetary_exchange_.28historical.29
Today, it is very useful in technologies:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Electronics_connectors.
LouisvilleDem
(303 posts)And when I say "poor" I'm talking about the nearly 3 billion people on the planet that are living on less than $2 a day. I'm not talking about the people making iPhones for the rich who get paid $750 a month. Note that I'm not saying that there is anything "fair" about what those people in China making iPhones are being paid, I'm merely noting that literally billions of people could die without the rich seeing any loss of labor for their toys...
MFM008
(19,818 posts)But many things we love will be gone forever.
Nitram
(22,822 posts)There will be new things to love. In a million years, an entirely new and healthy eco-sytem will have evolved.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Kind of like my non-existent children.
hatrack
(59,587 posts)As a continuation of the current civilization (more stuff more shiny more better more more)? Probably not.
The larger question is whether it will be a world you'd want to live in.
Duppers
(28,125 posts)What did ya do with him?
mackdaddy
(1,527 posts)Much of it depends on how high the global warming temp actually go. We have already been well over 1 degree C the last few months. 2 degrees at least is pretty much guaranteed with current CO2 levels. On a global political level I do not see any significant reduction in new CO2 production and release. We will NOT stop burning fossil fuels until we start dying by the billions, and maybe not then.
So how quickly the climate destabilization causes continued whipsaw weather changes will determine how badly the food issue is, and how soon. Alternating extreme hot and cold snaps, and drought and flooding rain storms could wipe out food production over vast areas worldwide. No food for our mega-million population cities would be my guess at a total civil break down of our current civilization. We could go "Mad Max" in just a few months.
All those "preppers" would be one stop shopping for well armed gangs of those not so well prepared. My solar panels would probably be a great "eat at MackDaddy's" road-sign when no one else has power.
When the paycheck stops, people seem to stop going to work. Funny how that works. So Power plants, water and sewage stops working as well as all the transportation systems. An all those 440 or so "low carbon" Nuclear plants will boil off the water from their spent fuel pools, and the fuel rods will self ignite sending up plumes of radioactive smoke. Not sure if anyone has figured out if this is enough radioactivity to finish off humanity or not. There are strong arguments that just civilization shutting down will lower global dimming of the high atmosphere particulates we keep up there, and actually increase global warming by over another degree C.
And this new extreme climate will last for many centuries. Will there be enough "habitat" for out long term survival? People live in the arctic, but only when they have large food stocks like seal, whales, moose. Same for other "hostile" areas, there still has to be local food of some sort. How may species will be wiped out by climate, pollution or us eating them all. My brothers garden was wiped out last year by 3 weeks of constant rain mid season. 110F summers ans -20F winters make for some hard living.
So is this all just "doomer porn"? I do not think so, but I personally can not tell one way or another. It seems more of just timing of when the climate axe falls. 80 years like the IPCC says, or 10 years or so like Guy McP espouses. I see a lot of "worse that previously expected" but can't think of any real "oops, false alarm, it is not so bad" stories. The one thing I am pretty sure of is that yes it COULD happen, we could wipe out the entire human race. It may already be too late, but we should act as if it isn't.