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wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
1. Weasels, rats and cats aren't indigenous to New Zealand
Mon Jul 25, 2016, 03:45 PM
Jul 2016

The ecosystem did just fine before they were introduced. The problem is that they eat the eggs and young of indigenous birds most of which aren't found anywhere else in the world.

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
8. Nope. See the link in post 2 below.
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 02:02 AM
Jul 2016

I live in New Zealand. There are major restrictions on the kinds of pets you can own. It's illegal to breed or sell gerbils or hamsters and most species of pet turtles even and ferrets and weasels are an absolute no. You can get multi-thousand dollar fines just for owning them.

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
3. Understand the diff between indeginous and invasive predator species.
Mon Jul 25, 2016, 03:47 PM
Jul 2016

Maybe take a more open approach in investigating this issue.




Response to Panich52 (Original post)

rickford66

(5,524 posts)
5. No snakes there either
Mon Jul 25, 2016, 04:02 PM
Jul 2016

One of my buddies was spooked by a garden hose until he realized there were no snakes. A bunch of us Navy Seabees were on temp duty in CH CH (1970-1971) and rented a luxurious ranch house cheaply because it was destined for demolition. Great country, great people, great in-laws too.

NickB79

(19,257 posts)
9. The only native predator NZ had was the Haast's eagle
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 10:41 AM
Jul 2016

And the Maori drove them to extinction when they killed off the moa birds it fed upon 700 years ago.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
11. Present theory said the Haast Eagle did not soar, but flew through the trees
Thu Jul 28, 2016, 06:43 PM
Jul 2016

Last edited Fri Jul 29, 2016, 10:23 AM - Edit history (3)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haast%27s_eagle

Short wings may have aided Haast's eagles when hunting in the dense scrubland and forests of New Zealand. Haast's eagle has sometimes been portrayed incorrectly as having evolved toward flightlessness, but this is not so; rather it represents a departure from the mode of its ancestors' soaring flight, toward higher wing loading and the species probably had very broad wings


Present estimate of Haast's Eagle size makes it about the size of a Wild Turkey (Which is know to fly through forest and trees and does NOT soar):

Hassat's Eagle Wight: 10–15 kg (22–33 lb) and males around 9–12 kg (20–26 lb)

The wild Turkey tends to peak at 23 pounds (Domestic variation can go up to 80 pounds but domestic turkeys do NOT fly, wild turkey do and can), The Wild Turkey also does NOT soar, it flys among the trees not over them.

https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Wild_Turkey/lifehistory

The top soaring Eagle it the Golden eagle, but it rarely weighs over 14 pounds:

The golden eagle is a very large, dark brown raptor with broad wings, ranging from 66 to 102 cm (26 to 40 in) in length and from 1.8 to 2.34 m (5 ft 11 in to 7 ft 8 in) in wingspan.[4][5][6][7] This species' wingspan is the fifth largest amongst extant eagle species.[5] In the largest race (A. c. daphanea) males and females weigh typically 4.05 kg (8.9 lb) and 6.35 kg (14.0 lb). In the smallest subspecies,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_eagle


The Haast's eagle rivals the Andean Condor in size:

Although it is on average about seven to eight cm shorter from beak to tail than the California condor, the Andean condor is larger in wingspan, which ranges from 270 to 320 cm (8 ft 10 in to 10 ft 6 in).[3] It is also typically heavier, reaching a weight of 11 to 15 kg (24 to 33 lb) for males and 8 to 11 kg (18 to 24 lb) for females.[15] Overall length can range from 100 to 130 cm (3 ft 3 in to 4 ft 3 in).[15] Among standard measurements, the wing chord is 75.7–85.2 cm (29.8–33.5 in), the tail is 33–38 cm (13–15 in) and the tarsus is 11.5–12.5 cm (4.5–4.9 in).[3] Measurements are usually taken from specimens reared in captivity.[3] The mean weight is 11.3 kg (25 lb), with the males averaging about a kilogram more at 12.5 kg (28 lb), the females a kilogram less at 10.1 kg (22 lb).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andean_condor


And exceeds the size of the California Condor:

Its huge 3.0 m (9.8 ft) wingspan is the widest of any North American bird, and its weight of up to 12 kg (26 lb)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_condor


and the Trumpeter Swan:

with a wingspan that may exceed 10 ft (3.0 m).....The weight of adult birds is typically 7–13.6 kg (15–30 lb).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpeter_swan


The Condors, which existed throughout North American thousands of years ago, had retreated to the Mountains of the west while before any white man saw them (the first written report on the California Condors was from Lewis and Clark's expedition). This is believed do to a overall drop in wind speed, if a bird weighs more then about 30 pounds, it needs very strong muscles OR a strong wind. The Condors depend of a strong wind, The Haast's Eagle and Trumpeter Swan depends on muscle. Haast's Eagle also had the use of winds AND the fact it could stay on the ground for a long time period for it was the ONLY predator in New Zealand till after 1300 when the first people arrived. Thus it could stay on the ground to defend its kill from other Haast's eagle till a strong enough wind came along to help it into the air.

The King Vulture is more the size of a bird that does NOT need the wind to help it get air borne and it only weighs 10 pounds or less (Top weight of a King Vulture is just smaller then the Golden Eagle, and most King Vultures weigh more then most Golden Eagles):

Its overall length ranges from 67–81 centimeters (27–32 in) and its wingspan is 1.2–2 meters (4–6.6 ft). Its weight ranges from 2.7–4.5 kilograms (6–10 lb)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_vulture


The heaviest flying bird today is the European Great Bustard, which can weigh up to 45 pounds (but most weigh less then 20 pounds). While it can fly, it prefers to run away from any danger if possible. This is due to its strong legs which is tied in with the muscles to its wings.

A male is typically 90–105 cm (2 ft 11 in–3 ft 5 in) tall, with a length of around 115 cm (3 ft 9 in) and has a 2.1–2.7 m (6 ft 11 in–8 ft 10 in) wingspan. The male can range in weight from 5.8 to 18 kg (13 to 40 lb)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_bustard


The Kori Bustard is almost as large as the Great Bustard:

Being a large and heavy bird, it avoids flying if possible. When alarmed it will first run and, if pushed further, will take to the air on the run with much effort, its wings making heavy wingbeats. Once airborne it flies more easily with slow, measured wingbeats, with the neck extended and the legs folded. It usually remains low and lands again within sight

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kori_bustard


Another large bird is the Sarus Crane, but like the Bustard its nominal weight is about 20 pounds but can be as high as 26 pounds:

The weight of nominate race individuals is 6.8–7.8 kg (15–17 lb), while five adult sharpii averaged 8.4 kg (19 lb). Across the distribution range, the weight can vary from 5 to 12 kg (11 to 26 lb), height typically from 115 to 167 cm (45.5 to 65.5 in) and the wingspan from 220 to 250 cm (86.5 to 98.5 in).[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarus_crane


While the Trumpeter Swan can "Soar" through the air, it is at the top end of that ability, most large birds just do not soar. Haast's Eagle hunting pattern was to go fly above the tall grass the pounce on its victim before it ever saw the eagle to attack. Thus it was an attack from above, but a short quick attack from tree top or lower heights NOT the soaring heights one associates with Eagles, Swans, Geese, Ducks and Vultures. i.e. more like a wild turkey in flight then any other eagle.
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