NHK: Just 60cm of water in Fukushima reactor

[bluecoat_fan]

Last edited Mon Mar 26, 2012, 05:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Tokyo Electric Power Company says it has found that the cooling water in one of the damaged reactors at Fukushima is only 60 centimeters deep, far lower than previously thought.

The utility confirmed the water level by inserting an endoscope into the No.2 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant on Monday.

TEPCO had thought that the water level was about 3 meters.

more
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/20120326_34.html

[PoliticAverse]

1. They're been contiunally wrong about how bad things are...

why should this be any different?...

[bluecoat_fan]

2. This was done with an endoscope and they got good video this time.

[PoliticAverse]

3. I didn't mean to imply the endoscope examination was wrong...

but rather that isn't surprising that they were wrong in their previous
estimate as to how much water there was.

[bluecoat_fan]

7. Robots were just in the basement, so this may be a new event.

[kristopher]

4. Japan in Uproar Over Censorship of Emperor's Anti-Nuclear Speech

Japan in Uproar Over Censorship of Emperor's Anti-Nuclear Speech

...The 78-year-old Emperor Akihito had insisted on attending the memorial service, though he had been released from the hospital for heart bypass surgery less than a week earlier. While the emperor is technically just a figurehead, he is still deeply revered here. Many Japanese see him a source of guidance in times of political difficulty, which have been many in the last 20 years. His speech was highly anticipated. Unlike Prime Minister Noda, who never mentioned the nuclear crisis in his speech on the anniversary, the Emperor addressed it directly.

As this earthquake and tsunami caused the nuclear power plant accident, those living in areas designated as the danger zone lost their homes and livelihoods and had to leave the places they used to live. In order for them to live there again safely, we have to overcome the problem of radioactive contamination, which is a formidable task.

...

"The emperor's words were like a knife to my heart." tweeted @shun1sta, in a string of comments typical of the public reaction. "He seemed in such pain as well... I can only imagine the determination he felt to say what he did." "It seems to me that the Emperor was doing the most he could do, despite the constraints of his position, to communicate his opinion on the nuclear matter." "Surely the government asked him not to mention the nuclear crisis. He must have fought hard to tell the truth."

It is rare for Emperor Akihito, an accomplished biologist and the world's leading authority on certain species of Gobi Fish, to publicly take sides on any subject other than biology. It is said that his love for the sciences is partly due to the ease in which his colleagues can disagree with him. The reverence he commands in other spheres is so strong that, when it comes to politics, his opinion is considered a constitutionally guarded state secret. His normal silence only adds to the weight of his rare public statements on such matters.

So many Japanese were shocked when TV media began cutting out the emperor's dramatic statement. Live daytime broadcasts of the event contained the whole speech and newspapers printed it in its entirety. But, by that evening, all of the major news programs aired edited versions of the speech without his nuclear comments, which also went unmentioned and undiscussed on the heavily watches news shows. The vast majority of Japanese, who don't watch TV news during the day, missed the comments entirely.

Blogs and chat-rooms quickly filled with angry accusations...

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/03/japan-in-uproar-over-censorship-of-emperors-anti-nuclear-speech/255025/

[PoliticAverse]

6. And his comment was so mild even...

"As this earthquake and tsunami caused the nuclear power plant accident, those living in areas designated as the danger zone lost their homes and livelihoods and had to leave the places they used to live. In order for them to live there again safely, we have to overcome the problem of radioactive contamination, which is a formidable task."

Another example of why so many in power fear the Internet - its ability to bypass censorship.

"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore ( http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/outerspace/internet-article.html )

[bananas]

8. "TV media began cutting out the emperor's dramatic statement"

You just can't trust the nuclear industry.

[GliderGuider]

9. You also can't trust the media. Or the governments. Or corporations in general.

Together they have created a closed conspiracy of silence against the truth of what is happening around the globe - with nuclear power, with global warming, with the rape of the lands and the seas, with the impoverishment of the third world and the domination of - pretty much everything.

[longship]

5. That's NHK

I've been following this story on the daily news reportage from NHK for a year on my local PBS affiliate which broadcasts MHz Worldview. IMHO NHK is doing good work here, in an environment that is non-static.

Japan has had how many changes in gov't in the past several years?

TEPCO must be held responsible.

The gov't must also be held responsible for their lack of transparency. The public should have been totally informed, but both parties hid the information.

[bluecoat_fan]

10. Hydrogen levels have also been increasing in #2 lately.

So R2 may still be meting. Hopefully the next endoscope will have better results.


http://enenews.com/hydrogen-levels-quintuple-reactor-2-last-weeks

[FBaggins]

12. For heaven sake... it's been a year.

We should have gotten past the simple stuff by now.

Spent fuel pools under normal conditions give off hydrogen... that's why they have sensors and venting. It's nonsense to say "so R2 may still be melting" because a tiny amount of hydrogen has increased to a slightly less tiny amount of hydrogen.

It has to climb more than tenfold before it's explosive.

The only "so" that's reasonable here is "so they probably haven't done anything to control hydrogen in the last couple days".

[bluecoat_fan]

13. The hydrogen levels have been pretty steady, until the past 2 weeks on R2.

Add to this the "broken" thermometer saga late February followed by today's discovery of missing 9 feet of water, if you want to believe SFP gases, that is fine because no one really knows. Others believe that something happened in February during the first endoscope and the "broken" thermometer readings were actually correct, showing Corium moving down. That some of Corium has left the containment vessel and now is in the suppression chambers. That belief too is fine because no one really knows.

[FBaggins]

15. You really can't say that.

They've really still "pretty steady". The fluctuation only looks significant because the levels are so low (so a tiny increase represents a "doubling" or "quadrupling". They're still well below levels that mean anything. For reference they were several times higher than this before they took action (nitrogen injection IIRC) last Fall (?).


Add to this the "broken" thermometer saga late February

Saga? And why "broken" in quotes? Don't tell me... I can guess.

followed by today's discovery of missing 9 feet of water

Ok... let's actually put those three together. Are you seriously thinking that a rational explanation could include "there's 1,000-degree-plus still-molten corium hiding in there that isn't getting cooled by the water spray yet somehow is only registering as a small temperature increase on one or two thermometers" ???

That really makes more sense than something went wrong with the thermometer? And now that they tell us that the water level is so low, this magic hidden corium is heating air in just one part of the PCV? The laws of physics have just taken a holiday?

Others believe that something happened in February during the first endoscope and the "broken" thermometer readings were actually correct

I guess that's a "yes". Those people don't have the first clue what they're talking about. Sorry.

[bluecoat_fan]

16. And now 73 sieverts per hour inside the containment vessel.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/fukushima-np/images/handouts_120327_02-e.pdf

Sorry.

[FBaggins]

17. Lol. You EXPECT really high radiation INSIDE a containment vessel.

It's probably MUCH higher if they measure close to the fuel.

Why on earth do you think that's relevant now?

[bluecoat_fan]

18. I expect it to be really high in the RPV, not inside the containment vessel.

Fukushima Diary says it is 100,000 times higher then normal periodic checkup. What do you say is normal?

[FBaggins]

19. Perhaps you missed the news?

There was a meltdown and some/all of the fuel left the RPV for the PCV.

Fukushima Diary says it is 100,000 times higher then normal

FD rarely gets anything right... but this could be one of them. Again... so? What did you expect to find?

[bluecoat_fan]

20. I had to look up the offical news, small amounts of fuel may have left the RPV #2.

What I expected them to find was water above the pedestal and no Corium outside the RPV.

Small amounts quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/world/asia/meltdown-in-japan-may-have-been-worse-than-thought.html

[FBaggins]

21. Then you haven't been paying attention.

If that's actually what you expected to find.

Small amounts quote:

There's a difference between "small" and "smaller". It was then estimated that less fuel escaped the RPV in 2&3 than in #1... but it was still a melt-through. There's no way to expect anything BUT high activity levels in the PCV. Heck, take a normal spend fuel pool and lower the water to the tops of the fuel and anyone standing next to it will get a killing dose in seconds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8565020/Nuclear-fuel-has-melted-through-base-of-Fukushima-plant.html

[bluecoat_fan]

22. I agree, it depends on the difference between "small" and "smaller". (nt)

[FBaggins]

23. Yep... 80% of the fuel escaping is "smaller" than 100%.

But it is by no means "small".

Even were virtually all of the fuel to remain in the RPV, we would still expect very high activity levels in the PCV. From the earliest days it was clear that the RPVs were leaking. You would expect by far the highest activity levels to be just outside.

Based on prior reports of comparative cooling effectiveness of different spray options, it seemed possible that a fair amount of fuel remained within the RPV... but even in that more optomistic scenario, it's clear that you should expect deadly readings in the PCV.

[Yo_Mama]

11. Clearly they still don't know what's happening to that reactor

Also, if it's true the water level is below where they think a lot of fuel is, so it leads one to wonder.

It was not too long ago that they said that the suppression chamber hadn't been ruptured after all - surely this means they were wrong?

[bluecoat_fan]

14. They are getting closer on R2, next endoscopy is tomorrow.

Hopefully good news on the missing water.