For grads, a high-earning major offered little protection from this brutal recession

[mahatmakanejeeves]

For grads, a high-earning major offered little protection from this brutal recession

Wonkblog

By Chico Harlan October 1 at 7:30 AM

If you graduated college* during a U.S. economic downturn any time before the Great Recession, your luck generally depended on your major. Yes, wages for new job entrants fell across the board, but the losses tended to be most severe in lower-paying fields. Those in the best-paying professions — engineering or accounting, for instance — tended to be more sheltered from the pain, building a major advantage relative to their peers.

But the Great Recession has proven different. Not only are the wage losses deeper, but they also extend more forcefully into better-paying fields, according to a new research paper. This recession, the authors wrote, “is more broad-based, impacting recent college graduates and higher-skilled majors to a greater extent than previous recessions.”

* Yikes. I'm sure he meant to say, "If you were graduated from a college...."

[Ampersand Unicode]

1. Still doesn't give me much hope.

I'm a history major graduating next May.



I wish I'd gone to trade school, because I probably never would have even set foot in a college classroom if I had. Chances are I'd have a job by now and wouldn't need to care about English literature or any of that fluffy stuff.

Instead I'm broke and will never find a job.

[YarnAddict]

3. My son got a degree in philosophy

he is now working in a factory, and planning on getting a Masters in Accounting.

I was an English/History major, and have never held a good-paying job.

[Ampersand Unicode]

9. I thought this was the opening to an old joke

"My son majored in philosophy. He is now able to think deeply about unemployment."

Or the English major one: "To want fries with that, or not to want fries with that? That is the question."

But you never hear jokes about unemployed basement-dwellers who majored in CS or nursing. Because math.

I was an English/History major, and have never held a good-paying job.

And you're OK with that? See, if I end up making squat over the course of my life I'm not going to want to live very long. I know it's just mean what Republicans say about poor people and all, but it's hard not to internalize it when even the people in your circle (for me, it's family) feel the same way, and either bombard you with insults or give you the cold shoulder because you're not "good enough" for them.

Basically, I'm a right-brained person in a left-brained economy. The right-brainers whose names are not Lena Dunham usually end up slumming their way through dead-end burger joint jobs, or selling tchotchkes or self-published S&M novels on the Internet. Maybe 30 years ago an English major could get a bank job and afford things, but not anymore, and you can't go back in time and blame Reagan because Reagan is dead and the economy is screwed. Except for STEM people, that is. People who are going to lead us into the 21st century with all that cool Jetsons stuff, not remind us of the 19th talking about Luddism, Durkheim, and Thoreau.

But because I'm not of the hardcore STEM capability, and am of the cerebral artsy-fartsy mentality, I am actually starting to feel like I don't even have the right to use up oxygen here anymore. Remember how some woman called poor people zoo animals and said it was wrong to feed them because they grow dependent? As disgusting and evil as that is, I'm beginning to think she might not be in the minority -- she just didn't have enough of a social filter not to say what everyone else is thinking. So I actually feel like I'd be doing a disservice to my fellow Americans by not being "good enough" to get a "real job." It doesn't make me feel much better knowing that some engineers are struggling. They still have a much better chance of putting bread on their table, versus a loser like me who's better at writing short-film scripts than Java Scripts, and can play Canon in D but can't program in C. /shame

[YarnAddict]

10. My situation is a little--

--complicated. Before son #1 was born I was working at an insurance company. Hated it. But maybe if I had stuck with it, I would have had opportunities. Who knows? But, being a woman I had the option to do the full-time mommy thing, and so I quit my job.

Then, just before son #2 was born I was diagnosed with cancer. Major surgery, chemotherapy, radiation, more radiation, more chemotherapy . . . A solid year. My priorities became set in stone during that year. And, my boys became my priorities. I was class mom, chaperoned field trips, planned class parties, listened to reading groups. Later I went to soccer games, track meets, cross country meets. Hosted many, many D & D games (yes, there is a serious geek-streak that runs through my--and my husband's--genes.) We pretty much never knew how many would be at our house for dinner.

At this point, let me explain that I had that option because my dh is an accountant. I understand that most women these days don't have the choice of doing what I did, even if they wanted to.

When son #2 was about to graduate from high school, I got a (very) part-time secretarial job. It was great! It was a Christian charity, and there were only two of us in the office. The Executive Director and I were very similar people--both English majors, actually. She recognized early on that I have kind of a gift for writing, so she let me handle most of the correspondence. It was just fun. All the time. But, after a couple of years, she retired and I decided it was time to move on.

I worked retail for a short time. Again, minimum wage. But I enjoyed it. I always saw it as a challenge to make a sale, or to sign a customer up for a store credit card. And I loooooooved my employee discount.

After a little while there, I took a full-time job as a bank teller. The money was terrible, but we had a great staff, and I enjoyed it at first. I took on the task of doing the bank's employee newsletter. That was fun too, for awhile.

Meanwhile, my heart started to go toes-up, as a result of the radiation I had so many years ago. I found that I could drag myself to work every day, but was pretty much useless by the time 5:00 rolled around. I was coming home, changing into pajamas, eating some defrosted thing, and trying to stay up til 9:00.

I realized I didn't have a life worth living anymore, so in January I gave notice. I now spend my time knitting, I'm on the board of our local humane society, I cook real meals, I read. Those are the thing that make me a real person, instead of a mindless drone, and mean way much more to me than money.

In a lot of ways, what I did for my sons has paid off. A year ago over 4th of July, my son and his friends were in town. (They are now all about 30.) One showed up just before dinner, then another, and in the end I managed an impromptu dinner for something like 14 people! It was just like old times.

Looking back, I probably should have majored in some kind of a writing field, rather than literature. And knowing that I would spend 30+ years as a cancer survivor, I might have made different decision when my kids were young. But I've lived half my life as if I were on borrowed time. I wouldn't recommend it . . .

As for you, you seem to have a gift for writing. Have you considered journalism as a field? Not real lucrative, but it would be a fun and interesting career, and you would probably have a lot more opportunities than looking for a job in history.

Also, don't let your family get you down! You obviously have talent, and value, and you just need to find your niche. It's out there, so don't give up!!

[mahatmakanejeeves]

4. What's stopping you?

Trust me on this: trade schools will take people with degrees.

Where do you live?

[Ampersand Unicode]

8. Massachusetts. Home of MIT and Mass. General

... and a couple of goofy actors who got lucky -- by making a movie about a kid who knows math.

But are you referring to high-school trade schools or community colleges? I don't want to have to take the same stupid English classes all over again.

Also, where can I find a non-graded skills-training center that teaches STEM subjects? Like a Sylvan Learning Center but for IT. I read in Time magazine about some program, Girls Who Code, sponsored (I think) by Google. But AFAIK it's only for junior high and high school girls. BA's appear to be SOL. I've cobbled together an assortment of on-the-fly incomplete IT skills through various all-day or morning-long workshops, website tutorials, and such, but what I'm looking for is an actual place where I can learn the skills without the pressure of an exam or the money for a proper degree. Even if I was to go on and get a second bachelor's in computing or tech certifications, I can't just go into these things blind and end up with Cs and Ds or even Fs all the way through. You wouldn't go straight into an English major if you spoke nary a word. So I guess what I'm looking for is a noncredit "CSL" program that teaches Coding as a Second Language.

Do such things exist and are they open for me?

[mahatmakanejeeves]

12. and a lot of community colleges

Massachusetts. Home of MIT and Mass. General.... I don't want to have to take the same stupid English classes all over again.

The way that community colleges are overlooked as an educational resource is just criminal. I'm not attacking you; I mean, in general. Let's get one thing out the way right off the bat: they are not going to make you take your English courses all over again.

Massachusetts Community Colleges

MA Community Colleges News & Events

Oh, gee; look at this: a mere four days ago, the U.S. Department of Labor issued a $20 million grant to the MA Community College system for job training in exactly the sorts of things you were talking about.

Community Colleges Awarded $20 Million Grant

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – JOINT RELEASE

Main Contact: Steven Sullivan
MA Community Colleges Executive Office
Phone: [phone]
Email:[e-mail]

Campus Contact: Laurie Maker
Massasoit Community College
Phone: [phone] x1848
Email: [e-mail]

Massachusetts Community Colleges Consortia Awarded $20 million U.S. Department of Labor Grant
Highest Funded Grant in the Country

Boston, MA, September 29, 2014 –A consortia proposal submitted collectively by the 15 community colleges in Massachusetts led by Massasoit Community College has been selected by the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) for the fourth and final round of federal funding from the Trade Adjustment Assistance Community College and Career Training Grant (TAACCCT). The community colleges are advancing a comprehensive approach to addressing the training and educational needs of workers and employers statewide with a focus on articulated pathways to careers in high-growth STEM sectors (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math; as well as advanced manufacturing and healthcare). The $20 million grant is the highest funded of the 66 awarded in the country by U.S. DOL. The project, entitled Guided Pathways to Success in STEM (GPSTEM), will use the national Complete College America Guided Pathways to Success model to assist eligible students in obtaining degrees and certificates in STEM fields. The model focuses on reducing the time to completion of certificates and degree programs, resulting in more students entering employment in the Commonwealth and/or transferring into baccalaureate programs to add to their credentials.

During the three-year grant period, 24 STEM degree options and 58 certificate programs will be newly created or significantly enhanced in partnership with business/industry, the Commonwealth’s workforce system, the state universities, and UMass. The project will also build capacity on the highly successful Career & College Navigator model the Massachusetts Community Colleges designed and implemented during the Round I TAACCCT Grant Award in 2011. An important part of the Round IV initiative will focus on creating collaborative pipelines for students to seamlessly transfer to baccalaureate programs to meet industry demand in certain STEM industry areas. “Creating key pipeline collaborations in the STEM fields in conjunction with the state universities and UMass will serve as a new model for creating comprehensive higher education and industry partnerships in the Commonwealth,” said Bill Hart, executive officer of the Massachusetts Community Colleges Council of Presidents.

The focus is primarily on helping TAA-eligible un- and under-employed workers and veterans enter STEM programs and obtain high-skill, high-waged jobs. However, the funding to implement Complete College America’s GPS model will assist community colleges in infusing additional comprehensive student supports throughout the 15 campuses that will benefit all student populations. “This award will have an enormous impact for all community college students in the Commonwealth, and it will advance the collective mission of our 15 institutions to connect individuals with long-term employment and extended educational opportunities,” said Dr. Charles Wall, president of Massasoit Community College. Massasoit Community College will serve as the lead institution for the consortium grant.

Additionally, $5 million of the $20 million will be for an additional statewide collaborative to work with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the state’s workforce system (state career centers and Workforce Investment Boards) to create a pilot around technology-enabled solutions to integrate systems at the community colleges and the state’s career centers to aggregate data and inform decisions on serving Trade-Impacted workers, unemployed and underemployed clients, and students. This additional statewide collaborative will be referred to as the Data Bus and is a project on top of the main proposal of the development of Guided Pathways in STEM. Cape Cod Community College also received a solitary grant of $2,471,478 to focus on training students in aviation maintenance and avionics, bringing the total funding for Massachusetts to more than $22,400,000.

It probably wouldn't hurt to look into this.

[OnlinePoker]

6. I'm curious

What jobs did you think would be available for you as a history major? Did a school guidance councilor send you in this direction or did you choose it yourself?

[Ampersand Unicode]

7. I always did poorly in math. Hence, I ended up in a writing-intensive major.

But nobody ever talked to me about trade schools or technical certificates. I transferred from a community college to a 4-year school. They didn't have classes in programming when I was in HS. I probably would have sucked in them anyway. Although I do have something of a haphazard cobbled-together "skills set" that I've learned on my own from Dummies books and Internet tutorials. It probably doesn't matter, though, as no matter what "skills" you put on your resume, the person with the chops to put them to use in an actual CS degree is going to get the job. I, on the other hand, will be mopping the floors at an IT company because the HR keyword software chucks my resume simply because it has the dreaded keywords "liberal arts."

I know now that probably the #1 job history majors go into is history teacher. Which is probably one of the worst envelope-stuffing schemes I have ever come upon in my life. Learn history so you can teach history to people who learn history and then go on to teach history? Same with English lit, philosophy, art, sociology -- all the other cerebral stuff that means jack in today's hands-on, left-brained workforce. Plus, I don't have the patience for it, let alone the front-of-room speaking skills. I actually ended up doing most of my college career online because I get incredibly nervous about even being in class with other people, let alone being called upon or delivering presentations. Never had to do one in my entire life, because it's not the easiest thing from a technical standpoint to have online students Skype their speech at 2am in their PJs. So most of my college career has consisted of writing term papers and getting easy A's for them. I've always been a wordsmith, a useless skill in an economy that demands "codesmiths."

At least because I transferred from CC (and did well there -- got transfer scholarships and a 33% tuition discount), I have no debt. Unfortunately, I'm probably never going to earn a decent salary and will always remain bottom-of-the-barrel material. I've actually cried myself to sleep over this. I'm coming up on graduation in May and have zero prospects other than retail or burgers. I've also come to believe that suckering in 18-year-olds for enormous debt to pay for worthless cerebral degrees is on the same level as suckering poor people for enormous debt to pay for worthless mortgages. The college bubble needs to burst like a painful, swollen, under-the-skin pimple, simply because we cannot continue graduating scores of unemployable Picasso experts whose sole hope of earning meaningful income is winning on "Jeopardy."

[YarnAddict]

11. I think you are seriously underestimating

the value of your skills as a wordsmith! You know, a lot of those engineers can do math, but really can't string three words together into a coherent sentence. They NEED people like you to edit their papers and write their articles. Also, if you speak as well as you write, you are miles ahead of some of the young people I hear today.

Maybe sales would be a good field for you. Your language skills will make a favorable impression on potential customers, and will open many doors for you.

If you are serious about wanting to learn CS, maybe you could get an entry-level job at a company that will pay for tuition to learn what you want to know.

Do not give up, and don't give in to despair.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

2. It's been going on for decades. JDs and MBAs don't guarantee shit.

I earned a Juris Doctor nearly thirty years ago.

Couldn't find a job as a paralegal in a very large city.

Looked for two years through my college's placement office and got ONE interview with a law firm. First legal job was as a legal secretary typing pleadings for my dad. Also had 20 years experience as a court stenographer and have seen thousands of hearings and trials of all kinds. Also have a Bachelor's degree in biology. That means I can spell expert testimony like spondylosis, spondylolysis and spondylolisthesis.

I came up with zip in the job market.

[elleng]

5. Occupational Therapy very lucrative,

even for new grads. My daughter has done well.